Flood - worldwide or local?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I was hoping someone would bring in the results of geological science to the thread, but most fundamentalists tend to think satan is behind the science...



Dino - did you check out the links I posted in regards to the "Hydroplate theory"?


Have you studied "earth's Catostrophic past? I do not completely agree with it or the hydroplate theory, Although I think both make great points..
 
Dec 12, 2013
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But you haven't considered them, otherwise you wouldn't have written such a fallacious comment.



we are all amateurs as opposed to professional Greek scholars here..

But you gave eg an opportunity for his snide remark :)
Keep flappin.....even STRONG's states the order of things


kosmos: order, the world​
Original Word: κόσμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kosmos
Phonetic Spelling: (kos'-mos)
Short Definition: the world, universe
Definition: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment
 
Dec 3, 2016
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Funny you say that when the KJV first was printed it had a major typo in it, the saying on the street in those times was do you have the She bible or the He bible.
I use the Interlinear Bible so I can see the original Hebrew and Greek

The KJV does happen to be more accurate than these new bibles that these secular corporations are publishing just to make money... they pay off silly TV preachers to play like they like their new copyrighted bible.

Nuthin like a $64 million dolla jet ya know...
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Have you studied "earth's Catostrophic past? I do not completely agree with it or the hydroplate theory, Although I think both make great points.. [/B][/COLOR]
Not come across "earth's Catastrophic past" in my reading adventures.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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I use the Interlinear Bible so I can see the original Hebrew and Greek

The KJV does happen to be more accurate than these new bibles that these secular corporations are publishing just to make money... they pay off silly TV preachers to play like they like their new copyrighted bible.

Nuthin like a $64 million dolla jet ya know...
Hmm! What interlinear Bible do you use? I used USB and it is keyed to RSV, which is a sort of modernized KJV. But, because I know Greek, I know that the Interlinear often doesn't get it right. It leaves a lot of the particles out of the translation. It translates some words using the old obsolete language of the KJV and earlier Bibles. Sometimes the tenses of the verbs are not right.

In addition, interlinears cannot correctly invert or change word orders, particularly when a verb is thrown the end of a sentence, which might be 3 or more verses long. That means, your sentence structure in English is not right, because it is always trying to put the words under the Greek words, so you see which words are associated with the English words. But that is often poor English, especially in Luke and Acts and 1 Peter.

As for Hebrew, I have never figured out how you can take a language which goes right to left, and have an interlinear translation, other than reversing not just the word order, but the words themselves. I do not have a interlinear Hebrew, and would not want one, for that very important reason!

An interlinear is fine, if you don't know Hebrew and English, but they are not the end all and the be all of translating. And they are not always accurate.

How did this discussion get derailed to a ridiculous discussion of the KJV, by people who know nothing about translating?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Not come across "earth's Catastrophic past" in my reading adventures.
Andrew Snelling.. It is actually an update on the book The Genesis flood which was written a few decades ago. I got it when I went to the creation museum in Kentucky about 7 years ago..
 

Rondonmon

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May 13, 2016
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For something not completely different...:p





Hard to tell since Nebuchadnezzar and the Leopard (Alexander the Great) were said to have conquered all the Earth. And Paul in Colossians 1:6 is said to have carried the Gospel to all the earth.
 
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In my view...if not global the following cannot be true....the bolded...

Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.
 

mcubed

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Dec 20, 2013
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G-d said worldwide in His word, unless He is wrong, it was worldwide. well to be accurate wide enough to kill all life but Noah and his family and the animals on board. If that only took a quarter flood, then a quarter, a third, then a third wide, maybe 50% wide if that is what was needed.... You should get the point.
 
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G-d said worldwide in His word
It's OK to say GOD... He does not mind and it's not being disrespectful of Him.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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First, you must decide if the supposed global flood was a miracle or a natural disaster.

If you believe it was a miracle, you can say whatever you want and have no problem with the physics, logic or common sense. In such case any discussion is irrelevant, you will just say "God did it, God cleaned it".

If you think it had to obey nature laws we know, in this case such a video is debunked, for example by the temperature of such event, no ark could survive such explosions.
At the risk of re-starting the arguing on this topic...

Having reviewed the reviews of the Hydroplate theory/model (thanks Locutus for the links), I will concede that it has significant problems, and as such would have to be set aside as a valid model for a global flood. All models for the mechanism of the flood have their shortcomings, though the HPT model appears to have some serious ones, including escaping heat energy. However, I still believe that the flood was global. I checked Rich Deem's commentary on godandscience.org, and think that he misinterpreted Psalm 104 to come to a "local" conclusion.

Whether it was entirely natural or miraculous is, frankly, irrelevant to me. In the same way that the earth opened up and swallowed some of the Israelites in the desert, the waters flooded the earth. I am not here to assert either, because I don't see that the Bible asserts either.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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In my view...if not global the following cannot be true....the bolded...

Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.
But you have to see the language from Noah's point of view. To him 'under heaven' meant the heaven he saw. All creatures that are on the land/earth again meant the 'world' he knew. He had no conception of 'the whole world' from our modern viewpoint. Consider Rom 1.8; 1 Kings 10.24 which were similar.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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At the risk of re-starting the arguing on this topic...

Having reviewed the reviews of the Hydroplate theory/model (thanks Locutus for the links), I will concede that it has significant problems, and as such would have to be set aside as a valid model for a global flood. All models for the mechanism of the flood have their shortcomings, though the HPT model appears to have some serious ones, including escaping heat energy. However, I still believe that the flood was global. I checked Rich Deem's commentary on godandscience.org, and think that he misinterpreted Psalm 104 to come to a "local" conclusion.

Whether it was entirely natural or miraculous is, frankly, irrelevant to me. In the same way that the earth opened up and swallowed some of the Israelites in the desert, the waters flooded the earth. I am not here to assert either, because I don't see that the Bible asserts either.
The "earth" is just an interpretation of the word that can also mean "land". And in the context of the text its quite certain that it does not mean the planet, only inhabited land.

The global flood and YEC are very spread in English speaking countries, not so in other ones. Probably because of the English Bible translations which try to translate such places like it was of a planetary scale?
 
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buddyt

are you one who claims only europeans are the "Adamic race" and others are beasts of the field?
thats what it looks like to me, just asking to make sure.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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But you have to see the language from Noah's point of view. To him 'under heaven' meant the heaven he saw. All creatures that are on the land/earth again meant the 'world' he knew. He had no conception of 'the whole world' from our modern viewpoint. Consider Rom 1.8; 1 Kings 10.24 which were similar.
I don't have to see anything from Noah's point of view...MOSES wrote it and he was inspired of GOD to write what he wrote!
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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I don't have to see anything from Noah's point of view...MOSES wrote it and he was inspired of GOD to write what he wrote!
Moses called on previously written records which he incorporated into his text

why do you think that there is the colophon 'these are the histories of the sons of Noah'
 
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Moses called on previously written records which he incorporated into his text

why do you think that there is the colophon 'these are the histories of the sons of Noah'
Don't buy that.....ALL is conclusive of ALL....MOSES was inspired not referencing previously written records...and the use of your statement does not necessarily imply what you are implying.....

ALL scripture is INSPIRED of GOD....

New American Standard Bible
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

King James Bible
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

King James Bible
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

To say MOSES was not inspired is to deny the word ALL as used in context and applied unto GOD breathed or inspired....

Sorry...not buying it bro
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Moses called on previously written records which he incorporated into his text

why do you think that there is the colophon 'these are the histories of the sons of Noah'
Where does Moses say he wrote part of Genesis from other recorded history? Where are you getting this stuff?

It's ok to be wrong. We ALL have been.