The Rapture explained in two minutes

[samuel23]

Hi blind, You can find out the easy way(what I am pointing out) or the hard way, at the judgement of God...but you will find out.

 

[wsblind]

Hi blind, You can find out the easy way(what I am pointing out) or the hard way, at the judgement of God...but you will find out.

I am with PennEd. I will lovingly put my arm on your shoulder and explain the Pretrib rapture to you on our way up.

Anyone who wants to stick a shiv in my back or have God stick a shiv in my back for not believing a post trib rapture.........most assuredly doesn't have it right.

 

[samuel23]

Hi Blind & Penn: If you guys are not con men(Christian con men?), and you are sincere in the sense that with your whole heart you really believe that the bible teaches a pre-trib rapture, then I would appreciate an honest answer if you don't mind. The question is, how in the world can you claim a pre-tribulation gathering when Jesus gave the church a post-trib gathering? The words Jesus spoke were clear and to the point that He would return immediately AFTER the tribulation and that He would return in the sky with a trumpet and angels and gather those who believe in Him(chosen). How can you read that and not believe what it is saying?

 

[popeye]

Hi Blind & Penn: If you guys are not con men(Christian con men?), and you are sincere in the sense that with your whole heart you really believe that the bible teaches a pre-trib rapture, then I would appreciate an honest answer if you don't mind. The question is, how in the world can you claim a pre-tribulation gathering when Jesus gave the church a post-trib gathering? The words Jesus spoke were clear and to the point that He would return immediately AFTER the tribulation and that He would return in the sky with a trumpet and angels and gather those who believe in Him(chosen). How can you read that and not believe what it is saying?

In your only verse that you continue to misalighn, JESUS DOES NO GATHERING. Angels gather.

THEY,THE ANGELS, gather FROM HEAVEN,not earth. That gathering is for the return to earth at the end of the GT. The saints are already there. Already in heaven.

Now,you jettison all the pretrib rapture verses,present us with a non rapture verse,over and over.

You have zero sir,absolutely no proof,or any verses pointing to a post trib rapture.

 

[popeye]

Like I said in my post, I don't see the die hard pre-trib folks repenting because they have read the scriptural truth and rejected it. I point out the false pre-trib rapture for those who still have an open mind. This issue is much more serious then a lot of people think that it is...Jesus said post-trib gathering, so a pre-trib gathering is a contradiction of what Jesus Christ gave us. All the pre-trib talk in the world cannot change the fact that Jesus gave the church a post-trib gathering of the church. It is written in Matt 24 and Mark 13. Those who want to know the truth take heed.

No,we AGREE there is a post trib gathering.It clearly says one happens in heaven. It is not the rapture. Your deal is so busted sir.

You remain in the dark by choice.
You refuse the clear pretrib rapture verses. You PURPOSEFULLY refuse God's word. It is your doing,your choice.

Your deal is so shallow,that is why you attack our character.

 

[popeye]

Hi Pop...trying to muddy the water.

You been shooting so many blanks, all thats left is little zingers huh?

 

[popeye]

It is amazing your ONLY VERSE,we actually agree on.
You borrowed it from the pretrib doctrine.

We both believe he returns post trib. He returns WITH his saints.

No post trib rescue. You guys literally made that up.

That is WHY you have no verses. You MADE IT UP.

PLEASE, show us one,just one, post trib RAPTURE verse.

Still waiting.

cue drum roll.

 

[wsblind]

Hi Blind & Penn: If you guys are not con men(Christian con men?), and you are sincere in the sense that with your whole heart you really believe that the bible teaches a pre-trib rapture, then I would appreciate an honest answer if you don't mind. The question is, how in the world can you claim a pre-tribulation gathering when Jesus gave the church a post-trib gathering? The words Jesus spoke were clear and to the point that He would return immediately AFTER the tribulation and that He would return in the sky with a trumpet and angels and gather those who believe in Him(chosen). How can you read that and not believe what it is saying?

That is his second coming and WE(you and me/even if you believed post ) come back with Him to reign in His 1000 year,earthly kingdom over Israel.

And If I am a deceived believer over this, why wouldn't God have mercy and protection for me? I lose all of His Grace and mercy because I may be wrong over end times events?

It is amazing to me that God tells ME and YOU that we weren't destined for wrath..............but the majority of believers today want to see each other FRY. It's nuts.

 

[popeye]

Lets see,the AC kills ALL REFUSING THE MARK.

HHMMMMM,lets do the math.

All with no mark dying,leaves how many alive???

But post trib rapture indoctrinates tell us millions of these headless fellows "endure to the end"

 

[popeye]

It clearly states the angels gather the believers "from the four winds"...a clear reference to earth. But yes, the angels ALSO gather believers from all across God's kingdom..."from one end of the heavens to the other". Wherever any of the saints who have gone on before us are residing...they will at that time be gathered together with all other believers.

Well,here it is,as you say,SO CLEAR;
31 [FONT=&quot]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

[/FONT]elect are gathered from heaven. Recon they got there via a pretrib rapture????

 

[popeye]

Hello????

Where is that one post trib rapture verse????

 

[wsblind]

Hi Blind & Penn: If you guys are not con men(Christian con men?), and you are sincere in the sense that with your whole heart you really believe that the bible teaches a pre-trib rapture, then I would appreciate an honest answer if you don't mind. The question is, how in the world can you claim a pre-tribulation gathering when Jesus gave the church a post-trib gathering? The words Jesus spoke were clear and to the point that He would return immediately AFTER the tribulation and that He would return in the sky with a trumpet and angels and gather those who believe in Him(chosen). How can you read that and not believe what it is saying?

And just to be clear. I am not speaking for PennEd. He had a quote that I know and I used it.

 

[popeye]

Wouldn't you,in reality,need several verses????

I'm really thinking the reality concept is the key ingredient here.

Hmmm,reality. Could be on to something.

In reality,we surely need several verses.

Oh well,lets wait for one,then go from there.

 

[Bladerunner]

Pre-tribbers are the equivalent of liberals in the world, and post-trib folks are the equivalent of conservatives in the world. Like the liberals, the pre-trib people are all passion and talk while attacking the post-trib folks, while the post-trib folks, like the conservatives, just keep pointing out the simple easy to recognize truth. I feel sorrow for the pre-trib folks because they are resisting the Holy Spirit. In their desperation to defend the indefensible they subject themselves to depraved actions, denying the very words of Jesus Christ(Matt 24, Mark 13), wrestling obviously false meanings from scripture(claiming the tribulation is the wrath of God). To Christians who see what they are doing it seems absurd that they could do what they are doing. I see it as a spiritual problem, all pre-trib folks at one time read where Jesus said that He would return in the sky, with angels, and gather the Christians, after the tribulation. When they read that place in scripture, and by an act of their will, chose to reject that truth, they then became under the spirit of deception, so that they actually believe that which has no scripture to back it up. I feel sorry for the die hard pre-trib folks because I do not see them as ever repenting and without repenting they face the judgment of God both in this life and in the judgment to come. Many folks who do not know tend to lean to pre-trib simply because so much of the leadership in the church today are pre-trib. If I was offered anything I wanted in this life, and a hundred years of perfect health to enjoy it, if only I would take the place of a pre-trib teacher at the judgment, I would not even consider it...it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Be very careful what you ask for Samuel........ God is always watching, and time is running short.

 

[popeye]

Be very careful what you ask for Samuel........ God is always watching, and time is running short.

I am still waiting to hear what he does with Lot,and the Christ child, since they are also pretrib rapture adherents.

Maybe they didn't know about the dangers of some bible truths pre 1800's.

Not sure how that 1800's deal can work in lampooning Jesus and Lot.

 

[Bladerunner]

Ah! But WHO are God's people today? I would submit that they are the gentile Church and Messianic Jews. Enoch WAS NOT Jewish. He was raptured as a non Jew, representing The Church in the Model.

I believe those saved DURING the Great Trib. will be the Jews converted to accept Jesus by the 144,000,who flee to Petra, representing Noah and family in the Model.

To both you and Grandpa.....we are both God's people. The Church and Israel.

God has told his church that they will not go through tribulations or God wrath.

However, Because Israel turned away from God, He designated them (Israel) to go through the tribulations until they call his name. There are a few Messianic Jews out there but they will be Raptured along with the Church.

 

[Bladerunner]

Like I said in my post, I don't see the die hard pre-trib folks repenting because they have read the scriptural truth and rejected it. I point out the false pre-trib rapture for those who still have an open mind. This issue is much more serious then a lot of people think that it is...Jesus said post-trib gathering, so a pre-trib gathering is a contradiction of what Jesus Christ gave us. All the pre-trib talk in the world cannot change the fact that Jesus gave the church a post-trib gathering of the church. It is written in Matt 24 and Mark 13. Those who want to know the truth take heed.

It is hard to recognize your point of view mainly because to get there, one has to remove at least 1/4 of he Bible. That is how much prophecy is in it.....

Me, I believe in ALL of God's Words not just part of them.

 

[Bladerunner]

What in the world are you talking about? Which Bible student who has read Revelation doesn't understand about God's wrath? And why do you dodge the original question in the OP?

Realize this: You and all other PreTribbers (inadvertently or otherwise) are consigning the very pillars of the Christian movement...the original leaders of the Christian era...as believers in false doctrine. PreTrib is forced to concede it believes Peter, James and John upheld false doctrine.

Peter, James and John believed what Jesus told them...which is that they should look out for the Abomination of Desolation, followed by great tribulation, followed by the "gathering".

For PreTribbers, that is false doctrine. PreTribbers believe Peter, James and John upheld false doctrine.

PreTrib, therefore, is an absurdity.

WOW THERE MattTooFar...... Peter,m James and John...Let me see the last time I checked John wrote Revelation which is what the Pre-tribers DO believe among all the other 65 Books of the Bible..

 

[Bladerunner]

BUMP --


The question I have asked the various supporters of the alleged (and non-existent) "PreTrib" rapture is this:






If you could pull Peter, or James or John aside some 15 or 20 years later after this Olivet Discourse in which Jesus instructed them to live with an expectation of the Abomination of Desolation, followed by the Great tribulation, followed by the Gathering of the believers...






...and ask them: "Do you still heed the words Jesus gave you that day? Do you still live with the expectation of possibly having to encounter those events?"


As I have repeatedly said -- what ELSE would you expect Peter or James to say other than "well, of COURSE we still heed His words from that day! Why would we not?? Has someone come along with words that contradict Jesus' words? And how could that be possible that someone could contradict Jesus with this so-called 'PreTrib' doctrine you speak of??"


Some of the PreTrib proponents on this discussion board might very well counter with...


"First of all, you guys are the top leaders of the Christian movement. So you absolutely HAVE to be PreTrib. And by the way, Tim LaHaye, John MacArthur, David Jeremiah...these guys are a pretty big deal".

Peter: "Really? They're a 'big deal'?? Are they bigger than the Lord of Glory?"

John was the one who wrote REvelation and he was take to heaven by Jesus and shown what the future would hold.

 

[samuel23]

Hi Pop: Jesus sends the angels to gather the believers to Himself in the sky. Jesus is in the sky so when the angels gather they obviously gather off the earth to Jesus in the sky. No pre-trib in the bible and Jesus gave a post-trib gathering to the church...sorry bud.