Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

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MadebyHim

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Dec 17, 2016
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For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Malachi 3:6

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.Hebrews 13:8

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. 2 Corinthians 3:18

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. Philippians 3:21
 
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imfinallyfree

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Dec 17, 2013
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I think that it's terrible how some people live and believe like I think it was Sully that said something about not being able to go 24 hrs without "sinning" if you weren't "perfect" that whole time.

I don't think that its possible for anybody to be perfect because we are individuals born with everything that being a individual brings with it like idiosyncrasies and opinions,and there's nothing religious about that opinion so I don't think that means that they are"sinning" they are just living.

I think that when people turn everything in life into a connotation of "sin" they are setting themselves up for failure which I believe is the practical meaning of "sin".

This is a main point of some of my threads,that the common Christian teachings are doing more harm than good,I mean when you have people that actually think that its literally not possible to go even 24 hrs without failing("sinning") what do you think they will do?they'll actually look forward to failing because they wrongly think that it's expected of them and worse anyone without common sense will believe these people when they tell them this stuff.

It sounds like a form of intellectual and emotional self flagellation which it may be for some the catholics seem to be into that stuff.

But for people that aren't catholic and don't believe in that stuff(self flagellation) it's probably what can be considered "slight of mind" and didn't God warn against this? didn't He say that satan is the king of deception?didn't He say that satan giveth while he taketh away?

What he's giving is doubt and when you have no self confidence you'll live in doubt ...you'll even think that it's acceptable to fail...it's even expected of you so that's what you'll do.

I think that when you look at absolutely everything in a religious context BEFORE seeing it in a practical context you are setting yourself up for what you call sinning and I call failure.

This is one of the reasons that I get irate and start yelling at people,because some of you are teaching people that failure is expected of them because satan got you to believe that with his slight of mind tricks.

You can go 24 hrs without failing so bad that you go to hell for that failure which is why I believe that they call it sin because it's supposed to be magnitudes greater than a common failure,so much greater that you'll go to hell for it.

Don't fall for satans slight of mind tricks that make you doubt yourself because when you live in doubt you will think that failure is expected of you so you'll do it.

Sure we will make mistakes because we are human and individuals,I think that it's a good thing,or fallibility,because it gives us a model to learn from so we don't just have theory but practice to learn from.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#1,823
#1,823
imfinallyfree said:
I think that it's terrible how some people live and believe like I think it was Sully that said something about not being able to go 24 hrs without "sinning" if you weren't "perfect" that whole time.

I don't think that its possible for anybody to be perfect because we are individuals born with everything that being a individual brings with it like idiosyncrasies and opinions,and there's nothing religious about that opinion so I don't think that means that they are"sinning" they are just living.

I think that when people turn everything in life into a connotation of "sin" they are setting themselves up for failure which I believe is the practical meaning of "sin".

This is a main point of some of my threads,that the common Christian teachings are doing more harm than good,I mean when you have people that actually think that its literally not possible to go even 24 hrs without failing("sinning") what do you think they will do?they'll actually look forward to failing because they wrongly think that it's expected of them and worse anyone without common sense will believe these people when they tell them this stuff.

It sounds like a form of intellectual and emotional self flagellation which it may be for some the catholics seem to be into that stuff.

But for people that aren't catholic and don't believe in that stuff(self flagellation) it's probably what can be considered "slight of mind" and didn't God warn against this? didn't He say that satan is the king of deception?didn't He say that satan giveth while he taketh away?

What he's giving is doubt and when you have no self confidence you'll live in doubt ...you'll even think that it's acceptable to fail...it's even expected of you so that's what you'll do.

I think that when you look at absolutely everything in a religious context BEFORE seeing it in a practical context you are setting yourself up for what you call sinning and I call failure.

This is one of the reasons that I get irate and start yelling at people,because some of you are teaching people that failure is expected of them because satan got you to believe that with his slight of mind tricks.

You can go 24 hrs without failing so bad that you go to hell for that failure which is why I believe that they call it sin because it's supposed to be magnitudes greater than a common failure,so much greater that you'll go to hell for it.

Don't fall for satans slight of mind tricks that make you doubt yourself because when you live in doubt you will think that failure is expected of you so you'll do it.

Sure we will make mistakes because we are human and individuals,I think that it's a good thing,or fallibility,because it gives us a model to learn from so we don't just have theory but practice to learn from.
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Satans "slight of mind trick" is to get you to do exactly what you are doing, reduce sin to just what you think you are innocent of, so you will feel confidence in yourself.
 
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imfinallyfree

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I meant our fallibility,and if you think that im a nutcase for the stuff that I say ,that's great,I wouldn't want to make you doubt yourself but I hope that you are far enough in life to have the experience that that brings with it so that you can see for yourself what I am talking about.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
#1,825
#1,825
imfinallyfree said:
I meant our fallibility,and if you think that im a nutcase for the stuff that I say ,that's great,I wouldn't want to make you doubt yourself but I hope that you are far enough in life to have the experience that that brings with it so that you can see for yourself what I am talking about.
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I do see for myself what you are talking about....and I just explained to you why you are wrong.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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FreeNChrist said:
Satans "slight of mind trick" is to get you to do exactly what you are doing, reduce sin to just what you think you are innocent of, so you will feel confidence in yourself.
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John was clear and the verbiage is clear....IF we say that we have no sin (present tense) then we are deceived and the truth is not in us.

END of story....we will carry this lost sinful flesh unto the day of redemption and a glorified body.....it is not subject unto the law of God and neither indeed can be.....

Jesus (who is rejected by the sinless perfectionists) said....THE spirit is indeed willing, BUT THE FLESH IS WEAK.....

There is NOT a just man upon the earth that does good and SINS NOT<---written with saved people on the earth

Why callest thou me GOOD there is NONE GOOD but GOD<----written with saved people on the earth

Those who claim to be sinless or to never sin are missing the mark, deceived and have NO TRUTH IN THEM!
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#1,827
Apr 7, 2014
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#1,827
Rockrz said:
Yes, and He also pointed out that in John 15:2 ... Every branch in me that bears not fruit he takes away
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In John 15, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit (vs. 2) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

Jesus said "In ME" so He is definitely speaking about those that have been translated from darkness into the Kingdom of God's Dear Son speaking of those that are In Christ (see Colossians 1:13)
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When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13).

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.
 
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imfinallyfree

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Dec 17, 2013
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Im not reducing sin im putting it in practical terms and by doing that I'm able to differentiate between common mistakes due to our fallibility and "sin" that condemns a pesron to hell,people that can't do that end up rolling it all up into the same equation.

When you do that you arrive at the same answer to that equation and that's not correct it's like saying 2+2 is 5 that extra 1 being unnecessary doubt.

I can appreciate what you are saying but I don't agree with it entirely,I think that you are saying that people should live in doubt constantly that way they will always be on the lookout for failure "sin" I think that that is too extreme and unnecessary for someone that sees and believes the common sense behind what God teaches.

In fact it's detrimental to a functional society,we have people in the world that believe the stuff that people like you tell them so they say " well im a failure and im expected to be one but as long as I keep repenting that's OK".

Well the current state of the world proves that that is incorrect.

There's such a thing as too much of a good thing,a equilibrium is necessary for a functional society,a great example of what I'm talking about is the Christians way back when that boiled humans alive in order to force them into believing what they(those Christians) believe.

You and people like you ARE those Christians in modern times,you'd probably boil humans alive to make those that you didn't boil live in constant fear of "sinning" if you could get away with it.
 
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FreeNChrist

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#1,829
#1,829
imfinallyfree said:
Im not reducing sin im putting it in practical terms and by doing that I'm able to differentiate between common mistakes due to our fallibility and "sin" that condemns a pesron to hell,people that can't do that end up rolling it all up into the same equation.

When you do that you arrive at the same answer to that equation and that's not correct it's like saying 2+2 is 5 that extra 1 being unnecessary doubt.

I can appreciate what you are saying but I don't agree with it entirely,I think that you are saying that people should live in doubt constantly that way they will always be on the lookout for failure "sin" I think that that is too extreme and unnecessary for someone that sees and believes the common sense behind what God teaches.

In fact it's detrimental to a functional society,we have people in the world that believe the stuff that people like you tell them so they say " well im a failure and im expected to be one but as long as I keep repenting that's OK".

Well the current state of the world proves that that is incorrect.

There's such a thing as too much of a good thing,a equilibrium is necessary for a functional society,a great example of what I'm talking about is the Christians way back when that boiled humans alive in order to force them into believing what they(those Christians) believe.

You and people like you ARE those Christians in modern times,you'd probably boil humans alive to make those that you didn't boil live in constant fear of "sinning" if you could get away with it.
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Exactly. You're putting sin in what seems like practical terms to you. That's the problem.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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#1,830
FreeNChrist said:
Exactly. You're putting sin in what seems like practical terms to you. That's the problem.
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Amen to that.....we must define all parameters of what we believe by the truth....the very definitions of the words God inspired, the verb tense, the context etc......the same old adage that fits many (religious) in our society as well as back then...

There are ways which SEEM right unto men, but the end thereof are the ways of death
 
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garee

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#1,831
Mar 28, 2016
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Imputed righteousness is a neat trick, but in the end, it does not work.

If it is a work then it is not a trick.
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No mirrors or smoke.

It worked for Christ’s work of faith our treasure we have in us (not from or of us) . If he has begun the good work of faith in us he will finish it. He is our confidence.

You are simply re defining the word grace. Unmerited favor . That would be to do despite to it(grace)

Christ opens a door to a relationship, faith, trust which is the basis of our righteousness. As long as this relationship is alive we are alive
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Yes Christ in us..... not Christ is us. So yes as as he freely gives us that righteousness that came from His work of faith. It would seem you are having Christ's faith as a work in respect to your own self. That would be blaspheming the Holy name/authority that creates us holy as a new creation..

If we are not first freely given the righteousness of Christ’s faith according to his labor of love, that works in us, we will be found dead in our trespass and sin without a living hope.

We have that treasure that works in us but are never to assume it could be of us. Its all about the work of Christ's faith ,the faith of God and not of our selves.

Two directions of (coming from) and in. (our belief towards him) as our amen, witnessing we heard Him . The little words of and in must be properly distinguished with of, pertaining to the things of God ,and in the things of men .

God will not share that glory with the flesh of sinners.

Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith “of Christ” (not of ourselves) , the righteousness which is of God by faith:

In or towards Him, of Him, coming from him. No faith of or from Christ then we have no faith to offer toward Him.

2Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
 
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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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garee said:
No mirrors or smoke.

It worked for Christ’s work of faith our treasure we have in us (not from or of us) . If he has begun the good work of faith in us he will finish it. He is our confidence.

You are simply re defining the word grace. Unmerited favor . That would be to do despite to it(grace)

.

Yes Christ in us..... not Christ is us. So yes as as he freely gives us that righteousness that came from His work of faith. It would seem you are having Christ's faith as a work in respect to your own self. That would be blaspheming the Holy name/authority that creates us holy as a new creation..

If we are not first freely given the righteousness of Christ’s faith according to his labor of love, that works in us, we will be found dead in our trespass and sin without a living hope.

We have that treasure that works in us but are never to assume it could be of us. Its all about the work of Christ's faith ,the faith of God and not of our selves.

Two directions of (coming from) and in. (our belief towards him) as our amen, witnessing we heard Him . The little words of and in must be properly distinguished with of, pertaining to the things of God ,and in the things of men .

God will not share that glory with the flesh of sinners.

Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith “of Christ” (not of ourselves) , the righteousness which is of God by faith:

In or towards Him, of Him, coming from him. No faith of or from Christ then we have no faith to offer toward Him.

2Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
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I have a very hard time believing that a man can be saved if they do not believe in the imputed righteousness of Christ!
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

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Nov 22, 2015
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dcontroversal said:
I have a very hard time believing that a man can be saved if they do not believe in the imputed righteousness of Christ!
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I think people can be saved and not have an understanding of the truth that we are now the righteousness of God in Christ. It is a blindness to the truth and this causes them to create a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness humanistic mindset.

This is called works-righteousness and it is anti-Christ at it's core belief system even with it's "appearance of good" but it denies the power of God's true grace for transformation to occur by the power of God. They need to have their minds renewed to the truth of Christ's work.

This is the major stumbling block for all works-based believers. Righteousness by faith in what the grace of God in Christ has already brought and we access this grace only "dia" - through faith.

They are forever trying to accomplish by their efforts what they do or don't do and will-power what Christ has already done by His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

They will never grow in the grace of Christ because of this mindset and they will be forever trying to clean themselves up to be acceptable to the Lord.

Grace reins or rules by righteousness. The only kind of true righteousness is Christ's - not what we do or don't do to create or maintain our own righteousness.

Romans 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
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imfinallyfree

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Dec 17, 2013
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Because im not using parables,mind numbing mysticism or groundless logic? Ok I can agree with that.
 
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limey410

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#1,835
#1,835
It is not sin that condemns us to Hell, it is unbelief/rejection of the Holy Spirit (the only sin that is not forgiven). The sin issue was resolved on the Cross. You will die eternally if you do not believe that He did what He said He did, and then receive Salvation (the life of God) through the restoration of the Holy Spirit.

That restoration is a free gift that can be received by anyone because it allows God to dwell within us in the midst of our sin, because of what Christ did.(We did absolutely nothing).

Everybody is so focused on sin, that they are always looking at it, judging it, measuring it, weighing it, trying to stop it, trying to go through religious machinations to resolve it.
They are now looking away from God, even after salvation. It wastes so much time in the Christian world that we become ineffective and paralyzed, not by the sin, but our focus on sin.

People, God no longer holds your sin against you. You are already forgiven, by continuing this battle against sin we are losing the war against Satan.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#1,836
Dec 12, 2013
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#1,836
Grace777x70 said:

I think people can be saved and not have an understanding of the truth that we are now the righteousness of God in Christ. It is a blindness to the truth and this causes them to create a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness humanistic mindset.

This is called works-righteousness and it is anti-Christ at it's core belief system even with it's "appearance of good" but it denies the power of God's true grace for transformation to occur by the power of God. They need to have their minds renewed to the truth of Christ's work.

This is the major stumbling block for all works-based believers. Righteousness by faith in what the grace of God in Christ has already brought and we access this grace only "dia" - through faith.

They are forever trying to accomplish by their efforts what they do or don't do and will-power what Christ has already done by His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

They will never grow in the grace of Christ because of this mindset and they will be forever trying to clean themselves up to be acceptable to the Lord.

Grace reins or rules by righteousness. The only kind of true righteousness is Christ's - not what we do or don't do to create or maintain our own righteousness.

Romans 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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a. Did not say it was impossible
b. Unlikely yes
c. You must understand that JESUS died for you and your need
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

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Nov 22, 2015
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dcontroversal said:
a. Did not say it was impossible
b. Unlikely yes
c. You must understand that JESUS died for you and your need
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I agree...and the teaching of works-righteousness instead of Christ-righteousness which is by grace through faith only will leave the church in babyhood. It is a dangerous doctrine of the enemy that nullifies the very grace of God in Christ that is needed to live the true Christian life from operating like it was meant to in us.

It is to be attacked vehemently in all it's forms and nuances. It is a perversion of the real gospel of the grace of God in Christ.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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#1,838
Grace777x70 said:
I agree...and the teaching of works-righteousness instead of Christ-righteousness which is by grace through faith only will leave the church in babyhood. It is a dangerous doctrine of the enemy that nullifies the very grace of God in Christ that is needed to live the true Christian life from operating like it was meant to in us.

It is to be attacked vehemently in all it's forms and nuances. It is a perversion of the real gospel of the grace of God in Christ.
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AMEN to that bro....I agree......
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Grace777x70 said:
We live by the life of Christ Himself living in us. His righteousness is our righteousness and He lives in and through us now because we are joined as one spirit with Him for eternity. 1 Cor.6:17

This is a major stumbling block to those of us with a humanistic D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness mindset because they need to create and maintain their own righteousness by what they do or don't do.

This is called works-righteousness and it is an anti-Christ belief.

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
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Amen to that and I agree.....
 
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