The Rapture explained in two minutes

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wsblind

Guest
Yes. I don't care how hungry I get I'm not taking the bait of those who not only push their eschatology, but degrade, insult, and even call demonic those that have a differing view.

I am absolutely certain those who do that are NOT speaking being led by the Holy Spirit, and I rarely respond or even read their posts.
Those doctrines that continually bring the venom out, even from the most sincere and normally pleasant believers.....usually are the TRUE doctrines.

Grace being #1 and the Pretrib ranks pretty High in the top.

What is being promoted in this world and what is being attacked in this world? The thing being attacked is usually the truth.
 
Dec 3, 2016
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Hey Rock, That is called bible manipulation. Rev 3:10 is not speaking of the rapture of the church, the idea that it is the rapture of the church is being placed on that scripture, that is called adding to scripture. If you want to know about the gathering of the church then go to the places in the bible where it actually describes the gathering of the church, Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, 2Thess,2. By the method you used you could make the bible say anything that you wanted it to(lets hope that was not your goal).
No, Jesus is speaking of the great tribulation when He said "the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" on Rev 3:10 which matches numerous things He said in the Gospels when also speaking of the great tribulation.

Thanks for playing!


No matter how you slice it... God hath not appointed us to wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), whether it be God's wrath or 'ol slewfoot's wrath.

But those that choose to not accept the Lord's rescue plan... will be left behind to experience the joys of the great tribulation.

Ain't gonna be nuthin nice
 
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Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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You are misinterpreting Daniel 9:27.

26 - close enough
27 - not even close

( You are absolutely correct with your "certainly not Titus", "Confirm not MAKE", "7 years", and "middle of 70th week" comments / statements. )

The 'he' ( x3 ) in verse 27 is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

With the exception of the phrase "even until the consummation" in verse 27 ( which is referring to the destruction of the temple lasting until "the end of all things" - [ essentially ] the Second Coming of Christ ), every-last-detail of Daniel 9:24-27 is fulfilled.

:)
GaryA....pray tell me where you get Jesus from that verse. Is this something that you just thought up...or what.?
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
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There are a number of pre-tribbers on here who I have never - not even once - seen / heard actually humble themselves enought to admit this.

"Just sayin'..."

Hey GaryA..... let me ask you a question.... You are evidently a replacement theology person. RIGHT.... therefore you have assigned Israel no place in God's plan... RIght.......
 
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popeye

Guest
such a powerful witness that the church is not found in rev after the gathering of martyrs that refused the mmark.

The 144 k are sealed against the scorpion plague. NO OTHERS ARE SEALED OR MENTIONED.

..........because they are IN HEAVEN.

Jesus said "I go and prepare a place for you that where I am you may be also"

"I will not drink from this cup again until I do so in heaven"....VIVIDLY DEPICTING THE MARRIAGE SUPPER.
 
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popeye

Guest
Originally Posted by PennEd

Yes. I don't care how hungry I get I'm not taking the bait of those who not only push their eschatology, but degrade, insult, and even call demonic those that have a differing view.

I am absolutely certain those who do that are NOT speaking being led by the Holy Spirit, and I rarely respond or even read their posts.
Those doctrines that continually bring the venom out, even from the most sincere and normally pleasant believers.....usually are the TRUE doctrines.

Grace being #1 and the Pretrib ranks pretty High in the top.

What is being promoted in this world and what is being attacked in this world? The thing being attacked is usually the truth.
They are so embarrassed. The bible so powerfully supports pretrib rapture.

Notice that they NEVER introduce the marriage,the bride /groom dimension.

The end time dynamic,the core of heaven's heart and purpose is the marriage,not the GT.

The pinacle of purpose is the gride and groom.

Jesus' first miracle was at a wedding. In heavens' protocol,last is first,and first is last. IOW they are interchangeable.

IOW, the first and last miracles of Jesus ministry with his chosen disciples,is a wedding.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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Ha, ha, I can see Popeye, Blade, Rock, and Blind, all trying desperately to muddy the water because clear water reveals the truth, that there is no pre-trib rapture. I marvel at folks like you, I am not the one who said Jesus is coming after the tribulation to gather the church...JESUS SAID THAT! You are not fighting me you are fighting Him. No one ever fought against God and won...enjoy the illusion while you can, soon it will be over.
 
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MattTooFor

Guest
Yes. I don't care how hungry I get I'm not taking the bait of those who not only push their eschatology, but degrade, insult, and even call demonic those that have a differing view.

I am absolutely certain those who do that are NOT speaking being led by the Holy Spirit, and I rarely respond or even read their posts.
Good grief -- "degrading and insulting"? Where is that happening?? It's been the other way around. Maybe not from you. But you need to follow more closely how these discussions have played out.
 
Dec 3, 2016
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The bible so powerfully supports pretrib rapture.
Yeppers, and in 1 Corinthians 10:13 we find that the Lord always makes a way to escape

Numerous times in scripture we see the Lord providing escape for His faithful and it will be no different at the end of this age.

Those that reject this idea from scripture will be left behind to experience the joys of the worst time on earth there has ever been or will ever be... enjoy, and be sure and live stream your experiences on spacebook and fat chat!
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
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Yeppers, and in 1 Corinthians 10:13 we find that the Lord always makes a way to escape

Numerous times in scripture we see the Lord providing escape for His faithful and it will be no different at the end of this age.

Those that reject this idea from scripture will be left behind to experience the joys of the worst time on earth there has ever been or will ever be... enjoy, and be sure and live stream your experiences on spacebook and fat chat!
Rockrz..... Good post..... I don't think those who are worshipping the replacement theology or are preterist, cultist, etc. have really read the Bible and Comprehended just what is in store for those left behind.

In the days of Noah, no on believed and what happened...ALL but 8 people died.

Jesus tells us in Matthew 24 that....well just let me post it.

Matthew 24:22..." And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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Rockrz..... Good post..... I don't think those who are worshipping the replacement theology or are preterist, cultist, etc. have really read the Bible and Comprehended just what is in store for those left behind.

In the days of Noah, no on believed and what happened...ALL but 8 people died.

Jesus tells us in Matthew 24 that....well just let me post it.

Matthew 24:22..." And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
What have Athanasius,Augustine, Luther,Calvin,Wesley, Spurgeon and Matthew Henry have in common?
According to you'' none of them had really read the bible or comprehended whats in store for those left behind''.
Because not one of them ever wrote a word about a pre Trib rapture, a seven year tribulation or anything else
thats connected to them. Many more could be added to the list. It is strange that the Holy Spirit used them to
bring millions to Christ and are still doing so long after their deaths when they were so ignorant.
I wonder if the same will be said for Hal Lindsay,La Haye and all the others that spread this teaching
 
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GaryA

Guest
Hilarious ...NOT sure if I stand corrected or not HAHA
The idea of "taking the red pill" means you want to know the truth "at all costs" ( and, you are not satisfied with "anything less" ); whereas, "taking the blue pill" means you would rather not face it, deal with it, etc. ( and, you are completely satisfied with that decision )

'red pill people' want to know the truth

'blue pill people' would rather be 'comfortable' than 'knowledgeable'

:)
 
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GaryA

Guest
Re: OOPS!

That's why I love this crazy place ,because eventually we wind up talking to our selves. Ha ha
Blessings
Bill
I was not talking to myself. I was talking to all who read the post. ( while trying to be funny )

But -- I get what you are saying.

haha

:)
 
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GaryA

Guest
GaryA....pray tell me where you get Jesus from that verse. Is this something that you just thought up...or what.?
Daniel 9:

[SUP]24[/SUP] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [SUP]25[/SUP] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [SUP]26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall
Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


The 'grammar of the language' indicates that the word 'he' ( x3 ) in verse 27 refers back to the word 'Messiah' in verse 26.

Despite what some people seem to think, it does not refer back to the word 'prince' in verse 26.

The last part of verse 26 - after the colon - is an 'aside'. It is a complete, separate, thought from what is being said in the first part of the verse. The thought process in the first part of the verse returns at the start of verse 27.

The word 'prince' is the object of a preposition; thus, it cannot be the target.

The word 'people' is plural; thus, it cannot be the target.

The word 'he' ( x3 ) refers back to the word 'Messiah'.

:)
 
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GaryA

Guest
You are evidently a replacement theology person.
That would be incorrect...

I believe that Israel ( as a nation ) "still has a part to play" during the 1000-year reign of Christ.

:)
 
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GaryA

Guest
Notice that they NEVER introduce the marriage,the bride /groom dimension.
I have a number of times in other threads. You just ignore it. Go back an look for it... :p

:)
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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Yeah... the Lord spoke of scoffers long before anyone ever heard of John Darby.

Noah warned that destruction was and they scoffed at him just like people today are scoffing at what's coming and the Lord's rescue plan. Scoffers will have to go thru the worst hell on earth that will ever take place... enjoy.

2 Peter 3:3-7
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
So according to you only Pre Tribbers are saved. Meaning the vast majority of the world christian population are not. I have always suspected that this is the view of those who follow Darby and Scofields teachings but up until now have not seen it in plain print. It doesn't surprise me because Darby created a cult known as the Exclusive Brethren which still operates in various forms today.
 
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MattTooFor

Guest
It is interesting to watch these discussions go hither, thither and yon. PreTribbers in particular do NOT want to deal with the simplicity of the OP's argument...one of the absolute clinching arguments which shuts down PreTrib:

PreTrib is forced to concede it views Peter, James and John as believers in false doctrine. THUS, PreTrib is obviously invalidated.

What did Peter, James and John believe? Well...they believed what Jesus told them.

What did Jesus tell them? In answer to their question about what to look for in the end times, Jesus told them to look for the Abomination of Desolation, followed by the Great Tribulation, followed by the great "Gathering". He did NOT tell them to look for a pre-70th Week "rapture" event.

Peter, James and John went out from the Olivet Discourse believing what Jesus told them...which is that they were to live with an expectation of the Abomination of Desolation.

THUS...Peter, James and John MUST be viewed as holding to false doctrine, according to PreTrib. And THAT is an absurdity.

Clearly then...PreTrib is invalidated.
 
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MattTooFor

Guest
I think the structure of the sentence int he paragraph posted above in Red is far more accurate that your interpretation.

You need to study up on your structure of Sentences...
It is interesting to watch these discussions go hither, thither and yon. PreTribbers in particular do NOT want to deal with the simplicity of the OP's argument...one of the absolute clinching arguments which shuts down PreTrib:

PreTrib is forced to concede it views Peter, James and John as believers in false doctrine. THUS, PreTrib is obviously invalidated.


What did Peter, James and John believe? Well...they believed what Jesus told them.


What did Jesus tell them? In answer to their question about what to look for in the end times, Jesus told them to look for the Abomination of Desolation, followed by the Great Tribulation, followed by the great "Gathering". He did NOT tell them to look for a pre-70th Week "rapture" event.


Peter, James and John went out from the Olivet Discourse believing what Jesus told them...which is that they were to live with an expectation of the Abomination of Desolation.


THUS...Peter, James and John MUST be viewed as holding to false doctrine, according to PreTrib. And THAT is an absurdity.

Clearly then...PreTrib is invalidated.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
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Daniel 9:

[SUP]24[/SUP] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [SUP]25[/SUP]

Here in verse 24... Daniel gives us a summary of what the next three verses are expected accomplish. (70 years upon Israel and Jerusalem),

WHY---to Finish Transgressions--Has this happened YET??? NO
WHY---to Make and end of Sins-- Has this Happened YET?? NO
WHY---to make reconciliation for iniquity-- Has this Happened YET? YES
WHY---to bring everlasting righteousness-- Has this Happened YET?? NO
WHY---to seal up the vision and prophecy--Has this happened YET? NO
WHY---anoint the most Holy--Has this happened YET? NO

All but one of the objective above have not been fullfilled as of 4/3/2017. The one that is filled was the Death of Jesus Christ for our SINS.



Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Underlined above: the Commandment was issued on by Artaxerxes Longimanus on March 14, 445 B.C.. Notice, the streets and walls shall be built again separates this prophecy from other Prophecies. 69 years of weeks or 173,880 DAYS, the Messiah Nagid (Messiah the King, Jesus)will ride into Jerusalem. Indeed He did on April 6, 32AD.


[SUP]26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall
Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

OK,,,Underlined above.. "after threescore and two weeks" (69 weeks of years), the Messiah Nagid will be cut off (crucified)... Pay attention to the "AFTER" above which tells that while the Messiah Nagid arrives in Jerusalem on the exact day as prophesied, and is Crucified After that day.

" and the People of the prince" , WHO is this...... Titus Vespasian,, a Roman General who became a prince (leader) because His father (Vespasian) was the Roman Emperor at the time. Titus became Emperor in 79-81BC. It is important to notice the "Capitalization" of the word Prince in verse 25 and in verse 26 , "prince" is not. There is a difference in the these two people. Who are the People...The "People of the prince' indicates they were soldiers. (NOTE:The roman army was not all composed of Romans but rather with indigenous people from the area. The area is 'assyria'

The 'people of the prince' destroy the city, and the sanctuary, with a Flood. Jesus gives a better description of how they (Roman Army accomplish the destruction) on the day He arrives in Jerusalem in Luke 19:43-44.

Unto the end of the WAR... Desolations are determined. This tells us that a complete destruction of the city and its sanctuary will end the war.



[SUP]27[/SUP] And
he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Your big mistake is the following...The Personal Identity

The first thing to clearly identify in this remarkable verse is just who is referred to as "he," the one confirming (or enforcing) the covenant. The grammatical antecedent of the pronoun is "the Prince that shall come" in the preceding verse, whose people destroy the city and the sanctuary.4 (Some try to identify him with the Messiah also mentioned earlier in that verse, but that is grammatically incorrect, and also ascribes the abominations to him, etc.).Koinona House, The Final Week


I will not get into the 70th week as it is pretty well speaks for itself unless you want to debate it which I will gladly reply.



The 'grammar of the language' indicates that the word 'he' ( x3 ) in verse 27 refers back to the word 'Messiah' in verse 26.

Despite what some people seem to think, it does not refer back to the word 'prince' in verse 26.

The last part of verse 26 - after the colon - is an 'aside'. It is a complete, separate, thought from what is being said in the first part of the verse. The thought process in the first part of the verse returns at the start of verse 27.

The word 'prince' is the object of a preposition; thus, it cannot be the target.

The word 'people' is plural; thus, it cannot be the target.

The word 'he' ( x3 ) refers back to the word 'Messiah'.

:)

I think the structure of the sentence in the paragraph posted above in Red is far more accurate that your interpretation.

You need to study up on your structure of Sentences...