Not By Works
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For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 not by works, so that no one can boast.10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Ephesians 2).
Not for Him, for He needs nothing from us, but because we have been reconciled into His family once more, and His love for us is so powerful, it transforms our old man into our New Creation that is pure and sanctified holy, to do in our walk of intentional faith that which God has laid out, and empowered us to do. Sin, then, is not this threads topic, but must always be understood in relationship to us in regards to us and God; and us and Satan if we are to understand Salvation.
So, what were your answers to post # 3017 again?
L
Amen,
As we are led by the Spirit of our God that dwells within us, realizing that our failure does not condemn us, nor require us to be re-forgiven for the sins we commit daily. We walk with a keen ear toward the Spirit, asking for His guidance as we interact with the Living God. He will finish the work in us that He has started, and it is His work, not ours.
As we are led by the Spirit of our God that dwells within us, realizing that our failure does not condemn us, nor require us to be re-forgiven for the sins we commit daily. We walk with a keen ear toward the Spirit, asking for His guidance as we interact with the Living God. He will finish the work in us that He has started, and it is His work, not ours.
Read my posts again - I have agreed that nothing can separate us from Christ. And that Christ guarantees our victory in things already accomplished in Him. But I am also loyal to the Scripture that says he who is not in the Son of God does not have life. Sin has not lost it's judgement, God has made us pure in Jesus Christ. Innocent once more for the opportunity to serve God over the rule of the world's system. And to this, Scripture attaches the reality of the obligation, in love, to that end; that being God's end. Satan has not gained redemption, only man has in Christ, which bears fruit as we obey Him until His workmanship is complete. But to say sin no longer affects our relationship to God if we practice it on-goingly is in grave error!
James 3:13-18New International Version (NIV)
Two Kinds of Wisdom
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.
W
Sin has lost it's judgement on mankind. Christ paid for ALL sin. Sin's judgement hasn't been lost on Christ. He will have the scars for it for eternity.
Sin effects our fellowship with our Father. Sin affects our Glorification of Christ in our walk. Sin affects many things in our life........Just not our salvation.
And start diggen a bit into His word. You will see that unbelievers are not even judged according to their sin of unbelief(Christ paid for all sin.) They are judged according their WORKS/DEEDS because they never believed. It is their own self righteous deeds that ARE judged and that is what sends them to the LoF.
Sin isn't the issue. It is our self righteous deeds that we think are better than the Lord Jesus Christ that sends one to the LoF.
Sin effects our fellowship with our Father. Sin affects our Glorification of Christ in our walk. Sin affects many things in our life........Just not our salvation.
And start diggen a bit into His word. You will see that unbelievers are not even judged according to their sin of unbelief(Christ paid for all sin.) They are judged according their WORKS/DEEDS because they never believed. It is their own self righteous deeds that ARE judged and that is what sends them to the LoF.
Sin isn't the issue. It is our self righteous deeds that we think are better than the Lord Jesus Christ that sends one to the LoF.
1 Corinthians 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Here’s a simple example that needs a little attention.
The car was made for the purpose of getting us to our destination.
Let’s put it this way:
Car - man
Gas- faith
Accelerator- hope
Brakes-wisdom
Key- love
Driver- God
A car(man) without even one of the ff: gas(faith), key(love) & a driver(God) to step on the accelerator(hope)/ breaks(wisdom) will not run to take you to your destination, just as FAITH ALONE cannot take you to your desired destination.
We can choose to be the CAR to take people to their destination.
The PASSENGER just waiting to reach his destination without doing anything to get there.
Or be a CO-PILOT(driver) as of a plane to get to the destination faster.
2 Peter 1:5-11 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
GOD CREATED US IN CHRIST JESUS TO DO GOOD WORKS.WE ARE CHOSEN AND APPOINTED TO GO AND BEAR FRUIT AND TO LOVE EACH OTHER.
IF WE HAVE FAITH IN HIM, WE WILL DO WHAT HE HAS DONE AND EVEN GREATER THINGS THAN THOSE BECAUSE WE ARE HIS BODY WHERE HE IS THE HEAD THAT LEADS THE BODY TO DO THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT HIM, JUST AS THOSE WHO ARE IN THE BODY ARE SENT BY HIM TO DO HIS WORKS HERE ON EARTH.
WE ARE GOD’S FELLOW WORKERS, THE GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANTS OF GOD IN HIS BODY(THE CHURCH) WHOM HE WILL SAVE.
THE WHOLE BODY REJOICES FOR THE HONOR OF ONE PART AND WORKS TOGETHER FOR THE EDIFICATION OF THE BODY( CHURCH)
Ephesians 5:29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church—
IF WE REJECT THE WORKS DONE IN THE BODY OF CHRIST BY THE GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANTS(WORKERS), WE REJECT “GOD” WHO WORKS ALL OF THEM IN ALL MEN.
THOSE WHO HAVE FAITH SHOULD WORK AND SERVE GOD IN HIS BODY(CHURCH) IN SUBMISSION AND OBEDIENCE TO HIS HOLY WILL AS GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANTS(WORKERS) WORTHY OF HIS PROMISES.
1 Corinthians 12:4-28 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are DIFFERENT KINDS OF SERVICE, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of WORKING, but the same GOD WORKS ALL OF THEM IN ALL MEN. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body. The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be NO DIVISION IN THE BODY, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
John 15:16-17 You did not choose me, but I chose you and APPOINTED YOU TO GO AND BEAR FRUIT—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. This is my command: LOVE EACH OTHER.
John 14:12 I tell you the truth, ANYONE WHO HAS FAITH IN ME WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
Malachi 2:17 You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “ALL WHO DO EVIL ARE GOOD IN THE EYES OF THE LORD, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”
13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. AND YOU WILL AGAIN SEE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE RIGHTEOUS AND THE WICKED, BETWEEN THOSE WHO SERVE GOD AND THOSE WHO DO NOT.
Here’s a simple example that needs a little attention.
The car was made for the purpose of getting us to our destination.
Let’s put it this way:
Car - man
Gas- faith
Accelerator- hope
Brakes-wisdom
Key- love
Driver- God
A car(man) without even one of the ff: gas(faith), key(love) & a driver(God) to step on the accelerator(hope)/ breaks(wisdom) will not run to take you to your destination, just as FAITH ALONE cannot take you to your desired destination.
We can choose to be the CAR to take people to their destination.
The PASSENGER just waiting to reach his destination without doing anything to get there.
Or be a CO-PILOT(driver) as of a plane to get to the destination faster.
2 Peter 1:5-11 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
GOD CREATED US IN CHRIST JESUS TO DO GOOD WORKS.WE ARE CHOSEN AND APPOINTED TO GO AND BEAR FRUIT AND TO LOVE EACH OTHER.
IF WE HAVE FAITH IN HIM, WE WILL DO WHAT HE HAS DONE AND EVEN GREATER THINGS THAN THOSE BECAUSE WE ARE HIS BODY WHERE HE IS THE HEAD THAT LEADS THE BODY TO DO THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT HIM, JUST AS THOSE WHO ARE IN THE BODY ARE SENT BY HIM TO DO HIS WORKS HERE ON EARTH.
WE ARE GOD’S FELLOW WORKERS, THE GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANTS OF GOD IN HIS BODY(THE CHURCH) WHOM HE WILL SAVE.
THE WHOLE BODY REJOICES FOR THE HONOR OF ONE PART AND WORKS TOGETHER FOR THE EDIFICATION OF THE BODY( CHURCH)
Ephesians 5:29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church—
IF WE REJECT THE WORKS DONE IN THE BODY OF CHRIST BY THE GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANTS(WORKERS), WE REJECT “GOD” WHO WORKS ALL OF THEM IN ALL MEN.
THOSE WHO HAVE FAITH SHOULD WORK AND SERVE GOD IN HIS BODY(CHURCH) IN SUBMISSION AND OBEDIENCE TO HIS HOLY WILL AS GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANTS(WORKERS) WORTHY OF HIS PROMISES.
1 Corinthians 12:4-28 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are DIFFERENT KINDS OF SERVICE, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of WORKING, but the same GOD WORKS ALL OF THEM IN ALL MEN. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body. The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be NO DIVISION IN THE BODY, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
John 15:16-17 You did not choose me, but I chose you and APPOINTED YOU TO GO AND BEAR FRUIT—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. This is my command: LOVE EACH OTHER.
John 14:12 I tell you the truth, ANYONE WHO HAS FAITH IN ME WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
Malachi 2:17 You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “ALL WHO DO EVIL ARE GOOD IN THE EYES OF THE LORD, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”
13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. AND YOU WILL AGAIN SEE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE RIGHTEOUS AND THE WICKED, BETWEEN THOSE WHO SERVE GOD AND THOSE WHO DO NOT.
This is where I say what? Has the world changed and I did not notice?
Are people sinless, while sinning, know Christ yet have never heard the word?
This theology is a theology of theoretical debt, sin debt, that can be lumped together,
from the perspective of the day of judgment and Jesus removes it all.
Now this assumes an individual is a whole, a working being who can face God except for
this burden of debt. There is nothing fundamentally wrong, or empty, it just needs this
removing. What if the problem has never been the debt, but the effect, the cause of
the sin. That this cause destroys the very life of the person, dooms them to death
and destruction, can never be solved unless the person opens the door and lets
Christ in.
And the real debt or cost is Jesus getting to the point where for those
who do open the door, they can see Him and be changed, healed, transformed.
So the language about sin and debt has been miss-understood. The debt was the
cost of bringing people back, and it has been paid in the cross, but it only removes sin
from those who apply it by opening the door. For the rest they are still trapped and
lost, and dying, slowly, to be finally destroyed in the lake of fire.
The cross made clear the way of salvation, which was a shadow in Israel, though still
clear.
Now to devalue behaviour, to make nothing repentance, confession, sorrow, humblness,
faith in the cross and righteous walking with God is to destroy all that Christ is and stands
for.
In a moral society I can see how self righteousness seems appropriate, because people do
care and things appear functioning, but the problem is not in the partially moral people, but
in the sin and hypocracy they are living by, and the lack of being honest from their hearts.
Are people sinless, while sinning, know Christ yet have never heard the word?
This theology is a theology of theoretical debt, sin debt, that can be lumped together,
from the perspective of the day of judgment and Jesus removes it all.
Now this assumes an individual is a whole, a working being who can face God except for
this burden of debt. There is nothing fundamentally wrong, or empty, it just needs this
removing. What if the problem has never been the debt, but the effect, the cause of
the sin. That this cause destroys the very life of the person, dooms them to death
and destruction, can never be solved unless the person opens the door and lets
Christ in.
And the real debt or cost is Jesus getting to the point where for those
who do open the door, they can see Him and be changed, healed, transformed.
So the language about sin and debt has been miss-understood. The debt was the
cost of bringing people back, and it has been paid in the cross, but it only removes sin
from those who apply it by opening the door. For the rest they are still trapped and
lost, and dying, slowly, to be finally destroyed in the lake of fire.
The cross made clear the way of salvation, which was a shadow in Israel, though still
clear.
Now to devalue behaviour, to make nothing repentance, confession, sorrow, humblness,
faith in the cross and righteous walking with God is to destroy all that Christ is and stands
for.
In a moral society I can see how self righteousness seems appropriate, because people do
care and things appear functioning, but the problem is not in the partially moral people, but
in the sin and hypocracy they are living by, and the lack of being honest from their hearts.
Ephesians 2:10New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Kjv
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Amp
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His workmanship [His own master work, a work of art], created in Christ Jesus [reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, ready to be used] for good works, which God prepared [for us] beforehand [taking paths which He set], so that we would walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us].
3 versions of your quote
. Ok mate ive bolded the most important parts out in all 3 versions...
This is verry important..........You are ready to be used...................(But the question is will you do the works of hoping for salvation...?
Will you do the works of praying all your brothers here will recieve salvation ?
Or will you tell that they have allready recieved it and no need to pray for it.
Now both scriptures state that God has prepared good works for us to do....... now what does this mean ?
Well praparing them is one thing but doing them is a nother... (be ye doers of the word as well as hearers of the world...
Now both scripture however do not say God will make you do them Good works > It says God has prepared a way for you... Which why wouldnt he for the ones he has saved... but will they all follow everyone who is saved...even the saved ones who still have greed lust pride issues.. ? or will they fail... ?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Kjv
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Amp
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His workmanship [His own master work, a work of art], created in Christ Jesus [reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, ready to be used] for good works, which God prepared [for us] beforehand [taking paths which He set], so that we would walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us].
3 versions of your quote
. Ok mate ive bolded the most important parts out in all 3 versions...
This is verry important..........You are ready to be used...................(But the question is will you do the works of hoping for salvation...?
Will you do the works of praying all your brothers here will recieve salvation ?
Or will you tell that they have allready recieved it and no need to pray for it.
Now both scriptures state that God has prepared good works for us to do....... now what does this mean ?
Well praparing them is one thing but doing them is a nother... (be ye doers of the word as well as hearers of the world...
Now both scripture however do not say God will make you do them Good works > It says God has prepared a way for you... Which why wouldnt he for the ones he has saved... but will they all follow everyone who is saved...even the saved ones who still have greed lust pride issues.. ? or will they fail... ?
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So one could look at this think i have recieved salvation because im a good father to my child,,, and this is of God... only to find out that there where millions of people starving acroos the world and he never did nothing to help them,,, and he thought he was saved... with millions.... he was the guy who didnt help the begger...
So i beg you please see that you have to pray for your daily bread
So i beg you please see that you have to pray for your daily bread