Lord we need you! Foundational truths

[Ariel82]

The sky is blue....

I don't think he is reacting to your post,but is posting in reaction to another poster. Check out decontraversal post about defending the imputed righteousness of Christ.

Personally just read 6 post, 2 in beginning and the 3 at end and decided one thread takes up enough of my time.

It's 6 an, time to make a fire and breakfast?,,, nope only 5 am,,,need to find reading glasses, sigh

 

[Ariel82]

Peterjens, I ha a no clue what dcon. Believes,,,.


Maybe if God grants me time I will ask him and learn, but for now it's cold and I want a fire and breakfast. God bless and keep you,

My dog slept through the night outside so maybe we can take her if we decide to do more family backpacking trips...we will see. Hoping God will give me an hour nap this afternoon.

 

[PeterJens]

You ever rebuke Stephen for calling me "fake as a 3 dollar bill" because your words remind ,e that you might secretly agree with him.

Ariel - I do not read all the threads or interactions. I am not responsible for the
actions of others or their ups and downs. On a forum like this I can but make observations.

You say I rant. Ever read Ezekiel or Isaiah. What I am saying is tame.
I do not think you are fake, you are trying like my daughter would not to upset anyone and
see things from the others perspective.

What you might not appreciate is everything grows from assumptions. Some assumptions
can destroy obvious truths, because they disagree with the assumption. You know how
commited people are to a group or social outlook when the assumption trumps truth.

Take a simple observation of the gospels. Same story different chronology. Which is true?
Well the essence of the story but not the timeline. No one knows which version is what happened
but that shows the testimony is fresh in the witnesses mind, and the essential points stay crystal
clear. Example - cursing the fig tree. It died. But when, straight away or by the next day, or
both. If one cannot face the chronology issue, faith is very fixed and vulnerable, but working through
the chronology, faith in Christ is real, how it expresses itself is growing.

So I am happy to learn the assumptions and see how they fit with the Lord and His word.
What the opposition do not understand is why I do not then become like them, something
must be wrong, which was exactly their reaction over a year ago. They still do not understand
but praise the Lord, He has blessed me through this exchange.

 

[PeterJens]

Peterjens, I ha a no clue what dcon. Believes,,,.
Maybe if God grants me time I will ask him and learn, but for now it's cold and I want a fire and breakfast. God bless and keep you,
My dog slept through the night outside so maybe we can take her if we decide to do more family backpacking trips...we will see. Hoping God will give me an hour nap this afternoon.

Ariel - God bless you, out camping and still on the internet. You have a good heart
and I seriously appreciate it. Love does conquer all things.

And you will notice there are a lot of emotional games being played. The biggest one
is disdain, which is always a joke if you have lost confidence in who is doing it.

gb9 summed up a lot when he said Jesus is not about emotions. When I weep over
the insane lostness youngsters get wrapped up in, the pressures that send them over
the edge, the parents rebelled against and the depression they fall into when they
loose focus, emotions are not part of Christ and following Him.

People who talk like gb9 are so hurt and defended, they cannot let themselves feel
anymore, and Christ has become some intellectual assent that keeps them happy.

Listen to Jesus weeping at the death of Lazarus. That is open empathy, feeling anothers
pain and loss, and responding, even though He solved the situation, He felt is deeply.

But Ariel, I feel all the doors of these guys are firmly shut, and they do not care if I lost
my faith or confidence in Christ or no longer felt forgiven through the cross, because these
are not their goals. I hope above all that love dominates in their lives, that they know the
victory of the cross and how to love others. Yet they will say, I am a hypocrite because
I have responded to their accusations etc. It does make me laugh, because it gets so
insane, like being in a fog, they just want to confuse all the issues, lol.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think you understand what salvation is. Nobody burns in hell forever unless they refuse to repent throughout all of eternity. Salvation is a matter of the Lord rescuing us from the trouble we get into because of our sin.

​Keep thinking that. If this were true. I would have no need or desire to repent here on earth, I would just eat drink and be merry..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The law gives us instruction on how to stay out of trouble. The Lord gave us the law for our own benefit.

No. The law gave us the standard we must live, if we do not live that standard, What must take place for us to be forgiven (Sacrifice of an innocent)

The law should every day lead us to Christ, Not tell us we are righteous people and doing good..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No I am trying to show how an honest miscommunication can deevlove into a name calling, mud slinging mess because people are too prideful to ask questions and too busy proving a point to actually listen.

Honest communication stopped along time ago. I think we all know. Or should know. What others believe now. If we do not, It is because of dishonest communication. And a closed mind

 

[PeterJens]

For you do to others what you claim they do to you.
.You say they have a false vospel, neither listens to what the other truly believes but declares false statements about what the other believes

Ariel - I am at a loss what they have got because it changes with the mood or the argument.
I know what I have got and how it works. That is enough for me.

Now I have listened to what is being said, and mainly it is critical statements of others, and
little uplifting stuff.

The main theme is woe is me, I am undone, I need Christ.
Our main theme is we love because we are in Christ.

Sin hampers us, and distracts from our relationship and ministry to others.
The focus of our lives is service, caring, ministering, lifting up others and helping.

Walking in the Spirit is seeing need and bringing it to Christ, reaching out and helping.
Is there some disagreement with this, or is sin so prevalent in peoples lives all they
see is their failure and not Christ working through them?

I suspect the focus is as it is, is because their conscience continually brings this
to mind though they should be walking in freedom. As I said there is an irony here,
which does not seem to be a conscience cleaned by the sprinkling of His blood.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Communication is a two way street.

We try our best to express our beliefs in a language the hearer can understand and they restate and ask questions.

We affirm or gently correct a misunderstanding and then listen to what they believe in the subject.

That is how a civil discussion and bible study works.

I have been saying this since I have been here.. If people would just ask, and not assume, Then when the person they ask says no, This is not what I said,, They would admit they were wrong, and try harder to understand.. Not what some do and get angry and say we are wrong, Like if they have more of an understanding than we do.

However CC more often works like this.

Person A: this is what I believe, it's God's truth. To question me is to deny God.

Person B: wait what do you mean when you say...

Person A: heretical wolf, you have rejected God!

****

Yeah an extreme example.

Let's try a more realistic one?

Person A: I want to talk about how the Holy Spriit is calling me to live a godly life, but am still learning what all these terms mean so might confuse the words at times but I really just want to live a godly life and follow Jesus because he has done so much for me, I really do love him and I love y'all too. Let's talk about how we can glorify God and how God has freed us of our sins and how we no longer have to follow old sinful patterns of behavior because we are new creations! Through Gids power we can learn to live holy lives and follow God's laws and commandments.

Person 2: did you say laws and commandments? God just freed me from the lie of works salvation, do you need to,be freed too? Here let me help you how I was helped, let me tell at you and keep telling you how wrong you are because it worked for me so it must work for everyone, the way God made me see must fit everyone,because everyone knows there is only one prescription for the CORRECT way to see things. CUZ YOU HAVE TO HAVE HAD THE SAME BLINDNESS AS ME AND NEED THE SAME TREATMENT I GOT TO FIX MY ISSUES! What do mean you don't eant,my help? That your issues are not the same as my issues?WHAT YOU WOLF, YOU WORKS SALVATIONIST, UNSAVED..,.PERSON.

Person 1: no you are the wolf,you don't want to teach people about godliness and you are attacking me so I will attack you back because I am right and if you don't agree with me even when I say things I. A confusing manner and have a hard time explaining my beliefs, then you are fighting with God not me.,,I will now put everyone into boxes of for and against me and label everyone against me with all the sins of the others and not care if my version of them is true or just a made up figment of my hurt pride.

I Got a more extreme example.

Person 1 I believe we need to repent, and trust in God alone for salvation, The cross is what saves, Trust God and he will save you,. He will change you, He will not fail, He who begun a good work in your will perfect its unbuilt the day of Christ.

Person 2 - You love sin, All you want to do is continue to live a life of sin, You do not believe in repentance, You safer a greasy grace.

Person 1 - How can you say this? The Bible says that those who are born of God will do good works. They desire, they work towards it, They want nothing more, because they are grateful for The love of God

Person 2. You are wrong, The Bible talks all over how salvation can be lost, It is grace and works, we must co-operate with God to get saved.

Person 1. That is legalism my friend, You can never work enough to be saved

Petrson 2. How dare you slam and attack a child of God because he desires to do good works......

Same old song and dance..

It is always the same few people who are attacking the grace people with their slanderous ways.. Over and over,,

 

[PeterJens]

person 1 - I have been convicted of sin, I have repented and turned from that sin
and desire to walk in righteousness. I have confessed my sin and faith in Christ.
Christ has forgiven me of my sin through the cross and filled me with the Holy Spirit.
I now walk in the Spirit filled with love, empowered to walk in His ways in righteousness.


person 2 - You do not know Christ because you can loose your faith, so are living
in unbelief and denying the work of the cross. You must repent and believe alone
on Christ.

It is quite something to deny someones walk in Christ because of security in Christ.

But this appears all they have as a weapon, or argument. But then why do I have
the seal of the Holy Spirit on my life? How can I minister in the gifts and praise of
His Holy name, exalting who He is the heights of heaven, knowing His love pouring
from me if I do not know Him?
How can it be that I walk in His ways and overcome obstacles put in my way unless
it is the Lord working through me?

So I suggest the accusation is false and miss-guided based on an incorrect theology
and view of sin, life and love. Nothing that has been said changes this fundamental
reality, though I do empathise with their belief system, it is based on their hatred of
rules and legalism to which they devoted most of their lives.

To me, to know Christ is to have a heart set free, emotions that you do not fear or
jump uncontrollably out on you, when not fully repressed. Jesus's way is a way of
peace and balance, is the hall mark of the Holy Spirit, when faced with certain death
and destruction.

So may Gods peace dwell in you richly as Christ and the cross fill your heart, Amen

 

[gb9]

person 1 - I have been convicted of sin, I have repented and turned from that sin
and desire to walk in righteousness. I have confessed my sin and faith in Christ.
Christ has forgiven me of my sin through the cross and filled me with the Holy Spirit.
I now walk in the Spirit filled with love, empowered to walk in His ways in righteousness.


person 2 - You do not know Christ because you can loose your faith, so are living
in unbelief and denying the work of the cross. You must repent and believe alone
on Christ.

It is quite something to deny someones walk in Christ because of security in Christ.

But this appears all they have as a weapon, or argument. But then why do I have
the seal of the Holy Spirit on my life? How can I minister in the gifts and praise of
His Holy name, exalting who He is the heights of heaven, knowing His love pouring
from me if I do not know Him?
How can it be that I walk in His ways and overcome obstacles put in my way unless
it is the Lord working through me?

So I suggest the accusation is false and miss-guided based on an incorrect theology
and view of sin, life and love. Nothing that has been said changes this fundamental
reality, though I do empathise with their belief system, it is based on their hatred of
rules and legalism to which they devoted most of their lives.

To me, to know Christ is to have a heart set free, emotions that you do not fear or
jump uncontrollably out on you, when not fully repressed. Jesus's way is a way of
peace and balance, is the hall mark of the Holy Spirit, when faced with certain death
and destruction.

So may Gods peace dwell in you richly as Christ and the cross fill your heart, Amen

when you say a false view of sin, would that be one that denies the Biblical definition of it?? like you do??

 

[Grace777x70]

All religions operate from the principle that good works originate from Christ? Seriously????

What in the world is wrong with you?????? That is one of the most absurd and asinine comments I've ever heard from a professing believer.

You are completely out on a limb here. "Without me you can do nothing". John 15:5. And you call it humanistic to attribute it all, and rightly so, to Christ? "Every good and perfect gift comes from above..." Hmmmm. Philippians 2:13 "for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."

In other words, it is only due to God that we work good. But, you call that humanism? What a twisted and wrested view that is. We attribute all our good works to God, but to you that means "humanism".

It is no wonder you endorse Osteen and his humanistic man-centric false gospel.

Hmmm, giving God all the glory for all good because all comes from Him for His glory...is humanism? WOW! Utterly ridiculous heresy. Goodness sake!

You obviously are not understanding what I am saying. All religions operate from the standpoint of "doing good works" - that is their mantra. I didn't say that all of those religions are coming from Christ. You have mis-understood what is being said.

I agree that it is God who is at work in us Christians both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Phil. 2:13 I have written that truth over 50x times here in CC.

Humanism in the way I used it in context is the belief that if we do good works it is good enough for God and to get approval from God.

Actually in real life I have said if you read my posts that only that which comes from the life of God in us in Christ is considered good works - His good works. No flesh shall glory in His presence. I have written that many times too.

I know it's easy to get the wrong things out of posts sometimes....Bless you....

 

[Grace777x70]

So you are saying faith in Jesus and what He has done for us,will change how we view sin (as fun to aomething harnful) and thus will cause us to change our sinful behavior?

Yes, we will definitely view sinning - in all it's forms the same way that Christ Himself does.

I am saying that the very life of Christ in us will change our behavior and of course we are one with the Lord - we too will want the same things. For it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Phi. 2:13

We are transformed by the Holy Spirit and that transformation renews our mind to the truth. 2 Cor. 3:17-18 and Romans 12:2

We do participate in this with the Holy Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Perhaps he is moving past that and answering my second question.

When you finish playing "might wolf Hunter" you can join that conversation instead of being burdened to create division and declare how right you are and how wrong. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is,

So, Have you have joined peter in a war against me, to the point you think you KNOW my Motives?

I responded to something he said to ME.. Maybe you can join our conversation. Then you will understand why I responded the way I did.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because the world became more corrupt.

Is that what Paul said in Galatians 3? Because the worl became more corrupt?

Why did he not give the world the law via Noah, and not kill off all live but 8 people. And those he took on the ark?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Or maybe,just maybe folks are talking about a different set of laws?

The inward laws God writes in the hearts of His people are different than the outward law give. To a people who rejected even hearing God's voice externally much less internally.

What laws? What law can be broken that would not REQUIRE sacrifice of an animal to redeem the pentalyt of breaking that law?


The law of Christ shows us HOW to not break the law of Moses.. It does not however, say if it is broken, Sin will just be forgiven because someone repents ands says they are sorry.. Sacrifice is still required.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

See I have issues with this post becaus you have judged and condemned people based on the fact they don't like how you define the gospel.

Because you judge and condemn and make sure they know you are condemning them, they use your logic and judgement to condemn YOU because you don't agree with their definition of the gospel.

So you both know what you believe but have a false concept of what the other personbelieves,


But instead of following the teachings of Christ and being gentle and kind and loving with one another.

You both decide to willfully sin (it might have initially been ignorant but now is quite willfull, though you justify it away as not sin because who likes to admit that they have sinned?),

You willfully sin by instead of explaining more fully what you believe and listening and trying to understand what they believe and praying that God help you both are the truth,you both choose to fight and bicker and slander and xjidge and condemn one another for over a year (i hear but haven't really been paying attention)

So yeah, both "sidws" of the debate has hypocrites who play victim when they attack and slander just as bad as the one they accuae of attacking them.

This post is meant as a rebuke,but will either be viewed as. And attack or "unrighteous" because it does t prop up a d encourage withers self righteous pride, which we have many cheerleaders guilty of being.

Egging on the fight instead of seeking peace and reconcilitatiion between their siblings as God has commanded,

where did you get that quote which is not bolted and highlighted in blue, I did not write that.

 

[Grace777x70]

I have been saying this since I have been here.. If people would just ask, and not assume, Then when the person they ask says no, This is not what I said,, They would admit they were wrong, and try harder to understand.. Not what some do and get angry and say we are wrong, Like if they have more of an understanding than we do.



I Got a more extreme example.

Person 1 I believe we need to repent, and trust in God alone for salvation, The cross is what saves, Trust God and he will save you,. He will change you, He will not fail, He who begun a good work in your will perfect its unbuilt the day of Christ.

Person 2 - You love sin, All you want to do is continue to live a life of sin, You do not believe in repentance, You safer a greasy grace.

Person 1 - How can you say this? The Bible says that those who are born of God will do good works. They desire, they work towards it, They want nothing more, because they are grateful for The love of God

Person 2. You are wrong, The Bible talks all over how salvation can be lost, It is grace and works, we must co-operate with God to get saved.

Person 1. That is legalism my friend, You can never work enough to be saved

Petrson 2. How dare you slam and attack a child of God because he desires to do good works......

Same old song and dance..

It is always the same few people who are attacking the grace people with their slanderous ways.. Over and over,,

You Nailed it!!!!!!

Sometimes people accuse others are saying that the sky is green when if fact you are saying it is blue.

Then they attack this "green sky" theory as if it's real and it is only a made up thought from their own minds.

We cannot have a respectful discussion with such a mind because it will always distort what is being said. It's ok to agree to disagree on things but at the very least we need to not be deceitful and mis-represent what is really being said.

If not - then it's best to just not interact with them because no good comes from these interactions - just strife and division. Heb. 12:15 can also happen.

 

[PeterJens]

Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”
2 Tim 2:16-19

How does Paul deal with those who say "Lord, Lord" yet deny the basics and destroy the
faith of some.

We are simply called to turn away from wickedness. So it is obvious who are in the Lord
and who are not. Where there is wickedness among His people the Lord is not present.

Now we are not talking ups and downs of normal life, but obvious sin and failure.
So in corinth it is a man in sexual sin, abuse with prostitutes, disputes between
members taken to court, disorderly worship, not taking communion in a good manner.

It is obvious Paul wants to encourage them to walk righteously, to do the right
things and see the Lord come powerfully into their lives.

As with most things there is a difference between personal issues which are hidden
and obvious rebellion and sin in the christian community. When sin does not matter
in the community, you know things have gone wrong. When it is not taught to walk
in the way of Jesus equally things have gone astray.

 

[PeterJens]

As I stated before, it appears we all believe very similar things.
So why the antagonism?

And if I reflect back the statements made by me, how is this slander?
How is it judgemental to point out differences in approach and belief?
If people literally say something I have not said, am I not allowed to call it out?
If I am told what I believe and what my attitude is, am I not allowed to say
what I believe and what my attitude actually is without being told I am lying?

In all communication, once you put words into other peoples mouths and start
accusing them of unspecified "crimes", you have already destroyed the respect.

Is there an advantage in behaving like this?
I am your brother in the faith, a follower of Jesus and a redeemed saint walking
in the ways of Jesus. Now if you feel I am still sinning, please tell me my sin,
so that I might repent and get right with God.

An example of this is gb9's comment, I do not define sin biblically. I have answered
this many times, yet still the same nebulous statement. Sin goes against Gods will.
Sin is based upon action in thought or deed. After you have committed a sin you are
a sinner, not you are a sinner so commit sin. A murderer is a murderer after committing
murder not before. For me the spirit is obvious antagonism, and not a sense of being
part of a body of believers. This is not my doing, it is where you have placed yourselves
in your own minds.

God bless you, and may Christ reign in your hearts, bringing love to all through the Holy
Spirit.