Rapture= false teaching

[miktre]

And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

This very flesh which we wear now will be raised up and changed to be like His, when we see Him.

Yes changed and no longer flesh and blood.

Beloved, now we are the children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be. We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is. And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

I won't do as some and speculate about when He will appear to His bride, but I will say that when we see Him at His appearing, we will become just as He is, because we will see Him as He is.

Why would you speculate when you don't have to. Christ very clearly wrote much as to how it will happen and this leaves no room for speculation. Christ is not the author of confusion, the enemy sowed the seeds of confusion and people choose to believe lies by listening to doctrines of men instead.

I don't have to twist scripture to fit what I think it says, because I believe in the one who wrote it. It does not matter when He appears, only that I am there to see Him, whether asleep or awake,

This here is a doctrine of man . Christ never told you it doesn't matter, He told you to take heed yet you do not listen to Him and says it matters not when.

 

[VW]

It does not matter whether it is at the beginning of the tribulation, during the tribulation, after the tribulation, but that it happens matters. From scripture, it is possible to say all three. From scripture each is supported. I see the dangers in each interpretation.

You judge with the mind of men. You think that I said that it does not matter what Jesus says. It matters very much to me. If you have taken the time to read what I have posted, and the words from the Lord that I have given here, and the persecution that I have endured because of them, you would not say this, unless you judge as do men.

 

[miktre]

It does not matter whether it is at the beginning of the tribulation, during the tribulation, after the tribulation, but that it happens matters. From scripture, it is possible to say all three. From scripture each is supported. I see the dangers in each interpretation.

You judge with the mind of men. You think that I said that it does not matter what Jesus says. It matters very much to me. If you have taken the time to read what I have posted, and the words from the Lord that I have given here, and the persecution that I have endured because of them, you would not say this, unless you judge as do men.

Again, Christ said take heed not it doesn't matter.
It is not possible for scripture to contradict itself and support all three.
Christ is not the author of confusion, He spoke much on the subject.



I can tell you have been having a hard time staying on subject and inject imaginary points into the conversation. I clearly said that Christ said take heed not "it doesn't matter". I never said anything about you thinking what Christ said doesn't matter. But since you bring this point up then you will take heed as He told you to and let loose of the "doesn't matter" umbilical doctrine if you care what He says.

 

[miktre]

VW, if you would like to go over the scriptures that you believe cause confusion on the subject, that would be great.

 

[VW]

VW, if you would like to go over the scriptures that you believe cause confusion on the subject, that would be great.

I have avoided talking to you just because of this. The scripture does not cause confusion, but our misunderstanding of scripture does. And, another cause of confusion is people who take a stand that is not really important.

That Jesus is returning is important. That we should be aware that He is returning is important. Whether or not there is a rapture is not important, and confuses the issue of following Jesus, because it causes much confusion among believers.

So, considering the above, I will not debate you about these things.

In His love,
vic

 

[miktre]

I have avoided talking to you just because of this. The scripture does not cause confusion, but our misunderstanding of scripture does. And, another cause of confusion is people who take a stand that is not really important.

What other teachings of Christ do you deem non important. Christ spent a good chunk of His very precious words on this and telling us exactly how it will happen.

That Jesus is returning is important. That we should be aware that He is returning is important. Whether or not there is a rapture is not important, and confuses the issue of following Jesus, because it causes much confusion among believers.

This is exactly the opposite of what Christ taught. Again, Christ is not the author of confusion. When people would rather listen to lies from the enemy Christ warned you about than Christ Himself, then the confusion will remain.

 

[VW]

Jesus did not teach a time of His return, but said rather that of the hour or day no man knows. He said to know the seasons, and to look up, for Him. He is the object of great price, not a correct theology of eschatology. And so I leave you to your theroies and doctrines of the return, so that I might devot myself to Jesus, the object of my love.

 

[miktre]

Jesus did not teach a time of His return, but said rather that of the hour or day no man knows. He said to know the seasons, and to look up, for Him. He is the object of great price, not a correct theology of eschatology. And so I leave you to your theroies and doctrines of the return, so that I might devot myself to Jesus, the object of my love.

The object of your love should be His precious words He left you, for He is the living word. You will leave with your false doctrines rather than His words He taught saying that they don't matter. You want to pick and choose what He told you, not smart.
He never said or implied one time it doesn't matter. Here is what He said:
3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.


4Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
5And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:




7And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? 8And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

Take heed=Righteous doctrine
Doesn't matter=evil foolish doctrine

 

[VW]

You are as obstinate as anyone I have ever seen. What does not matter is your interpretation of the end.

Here are some of His words for you:
you search the scripture, because you think that in them you have eternal life, and they testify of Me, but you are unwilling to come to Me that you may have life.

Jesus said that now is the time that the dead would hear his voice, and that those who heard would live. He said that those who live and believe in Him would never die.

Why would I worry if He comes this week, or seven years later, or even after I sleep? He will come when He comes, and I will love Him still. Do you?

 

[QuestionTime]

Hey gentlemen, let's not fight.

There is a reason why God gave us the book of Daniel, Revelation and all of these other prophecies regarding the future, such as Jesus in Matt 24.

While we shouldn't be as some preachers who dwell continually on this topic - to the exclusion of all else - we shouldn't ignore it completely either. Besides, there are verses in the Bible that talk about how the wise take efforts to prepare for future dangers:

Prove 27:12
A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself; but the simple pass on, and are punished.

Exodus 9:20-21
He that feared the word of the LORD among the servants of Pharaoh made his servants and his cattle flee into the houses:
And he that regarded not the word of the LORD left his servants and his cattle in the field.

I have told my friends also that they ought to stop having babies, as I believe we are near a time of great turmoil. They haven't listened to me, but that will be to their grief if things do go horribly wrong in the near future. The Bible says: "Woe to them that give suck in those days."

Quest

 

[miktre]

You are as obstinate as anyone I have ever seen. What does not matter is your interpretation of the end.

It does matter, maybe not to you but maybe to God. A few people on have told me that what was shared and given freely to me being shared and given freely unto them through me counted as a blessing to their life. I speak boldly with confidence on the subject and that shall continue.

Here are some of His words for you:
you search the scripture, because you think that in them you have eternal life, and they testify of Me, but you are unwilling to come to Me that you may have life.

I not sure but I think you are trying to imply that the verse here is saying that there is not eternal life in the scripture, in reality it is Christ thats in the scripture.You do error, He is telling them that there is eternal life in the scriptures but not if you reject the the testimony of the scriptures, that Christ is the saviour of the world. You can search and search in vain to try to find the way to eternity but if you didn't find Christ as the answer then sorry charlie. Jesus Christ is the word, its His letter to us, written with love and sealed with blood. Just for the record I do believe Christ is Lord and Saviour.
John 7:38
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
REV 19

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Jesus said that now is the time that the dead would hear his voice, and that those who heard would live. He said that those who live and believe in Him would never die.

Why would I worry if He comes this week, or seven years later, or even after I sleep? He will come when He comes, and I will love Him still. Do you?

I'm just worried, worried for people. Oh so many miss Christs message of the great deception coming, the greatest deception in the history of mankind. I'm going to preach this gospel of the kingdom till the day I die or am changed, no doubt in my mind.
Observe:
16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
(Documentation of a conspiracy concerning Christs return)

17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts







Please don't think that I don't that know that this is a upsetting concept for good people for many different reasons. People have relationships with people they love and can't accept the truth of it because it would mean that the world isn't what they might of thought it was. Or how could these wonderful people blessed with Gods grace be falling for such an unimaginable falsehood. Their amazing pastor from their beautiful church couldn't possibly have something so significant wrong. They tell their children that Christ is coming at any minute to take them from this evil world. This runs very deep for people. Everything is in God's time, He said there is going to be a great falling away from Him. This is a time also for many to come to Truth also, that they may stand during the evil day.
The Bible teaches that satan and the fallen angels are coming first. All the religions of the world await this false messiah to worship him but we have the truth friends. Satan and the fallen angels are beautiful angelic beings claiming to be the return of Christ and many shall unwittingly worship him.. Christ is the great watchman and He wants us to be watchmen also.
He chooses not to know the day or the hour and set the example for us how to be a good watchman. He's blowing the horn when He says take heed, we had better take that seriously.

 

[VW]

Stranger still. Christ is not in the scriptures if they testify of Him. I sense that you are equating the scriptures with Jesus.

The deception that Jesus was speaking of, that we should be ware that no one deceive us, is that He has already come, or, is not coming at all.

The falling away has nothing to do with the Anti-christ. It has to do with falling away from hearing His voice, and it has been going on for a long time.

Those who know the Lord will be tried by the Anti-christ, and some will fall, but to be purified.

Paul spoke of the apostasy, which is much more than a falling away. It is a deliberate turning away from God.

The faith that Jesus brought to the world, the salvation which is eternal life in Him, has become a religion, a set of beliefs, a dead bag of hot air, and not the life of God that comes from a relationship with the Father through Jesus.

The only real danger I see in teaching a rapture is that some will take the message in order to escape, and not because true repentance from evil works in Him. And is this case, I doubt that they would believe anyway, but who is to say. But one who takes the easy message is thinking that they have it already, when the truth is that they have bought a lie to save themselves, while the truth would slay them to live again in Jesus. Much harder to convince one that they need Christ when they think that they already have Him.

In that day, I tell you the truth, we will all be surprised. No one knows how it will happen but God, it is hidden in a mystery. Only God can reveal it to us.

Blessings and love in His name,
vic

 

[miktre]

Stranger still. Christ is not in the scriptures if they testify of Him. I sense that you are equating the scriptures with Jesus.

The deception that Jesus was speaking of, that we should be ware that no one deceive us, is that He has already come, or, is not coming at all.

The falling away has nothing to do with the Anti-christ. It has to do with falling away from hearing His voice, and it has been going on for a long time.

Those who know the Lord will be tried by the Anti-christ, and some will fall, but to be purified.

Paul spoke of the apostasy, which is much more than a falling away. It is a deliberate turning away from God.

The faith that Jesus brought to the world, the salvation which is eternal life in Him, has become a religion, a set of beliefs, a dead bag of hot air, and not the life of God that comes from a relationship with the Father through Jesus.

The only real danger I see in teaching a rapture is that some will take the message in order to escape, and not because true repentance from evil works in Him. And is this case, I doubt that they would believe anyway, but who is to say. But one who takes the easy message is thinking that they have it already, when the truth is that they have bought a lie to save themselves, while the truth would slay them to live again in Jesus. Much harder to convince one that they need Christ when they think that they already have Him.

In that day, I tell you the truth, we will all be surprised. No one knows how it will happen but God, it is hidden in a mystery. Only God can reveal it to us.

Blessings and love in His name,
vic

Its all blah blah blah. You never provide one verse, no use going on with the discussion.
When I did offer to actually discuss the scriptures you wanted no part of it.

 

[VW]

Its all blah blah blah. You never provide one verse, no use going on with the discussion.
When I did offer to actually discuss the scriptures you wanted no part of it.

Does not the scripture live in you, by the Holy Spirit?

We were not having a discussion anyway, you do not have discussions, you put your interpretation out, and if anyone disagrees with you, they are automatically wrong.

I offered plenty of scriptures, but from my heart, where they live. You did not hear. So I offer you one more, only I will quote:

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. Love is patient, love is kind, is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, boes not take into account a wrong, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails; but if prophecy, they will be done away; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be done away with. For we know in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also have been fully known. But now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Blah blah blah?

In His love,
vic

 

[miktre]

Does not the scripture live in you, by the Holy Spirit?

We were not having a discussion anyway, you do not have discussions, you put your interpretation out, and if anyone disagrees with you, they are automatically wrong.

I offered plenty of scriptures, but from my heart, where they live. You did not hear. So I offer you one more, only I will quote:

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. Love is patient, love is kind, is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, boes not take into account a wrong, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails; but if prophecy, they will be done away; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be done away with. For we know in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also have been fully known. But now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Blah blah blah?

In His love,
vic

Yup,
blah blah blah
When you finally do try to use some scripture you take some very beautiful verses that have been written to our hearts and turn it into an ugly attack on me instead of staying on subject.

Really no need go on with the back and forth until you want to sit down and seriously talk scripture instead.

 

[VW]

Yup,
blah blah blah
When you finally do try to use some scripture you take some very beautiful verses that have been written to our hearts and turn it into an ugly attack on me instead of staying on subject.

Really no need go on with the back and forth until you want to sit down and seriously talk scripture instead.

This is not an attack on you, but on what you represent.

You should see by now that I want to talk Holy Spirit. You don't seem to want to do that.

As you suggest, I too don't see any point in continuing.

 

[miktre]

I have told my friends also that they ought to stop having babies, as I believe we are near a time of great turmoil. They haven't listened to me, but that will be to their grief if things do go horribly wrong in the near future. The Bible says: "Woe to them that give suck in those days."
Quest

Quest, I am going to give you the true meaning of this scripture as it was freely given to me.

Luke 21:23
But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Here we see wrath upon these people. I have heard many different crazy interpretations about this verse even that starving people will be eating their babies. Wrath is always from God. Will God have wrath for people for simply being parents? Wrath is G3709 in the strongs and is always connected to Gods wrath upon man. Thats not the God we know.

You must keep in mind that we are to be the bride of Christ and this theme is throughout Gods word.. He is now preparing a place for her and will come to get her. We are to remain spiritual virgins for wedding. We are not to be harlots. Those that are with child are those that have already been spiritually impregnated. That have partaken in a spiritual wedding with the fake thats coming and claiming to be Christ. The product of a marriage is a child and thats the meaning of Christs saying.

2 Corinthians 11
1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
That 'another Jesus' is the fake thats coming.

 

[miktre]

This is not an attack on you, but on what you represent.

So it is you that are the great knower of mens hearts?

You should see by now that I want to talk Holy Spirit. You don't seem to want to do that.

I see you want to discuss matters without using any scriptures like I asked and rather focus on me. For future reference its always better to provide scripture. Whenever you want to discuss scriptures rather than where my heart is at then the door is always open, friend.

 

[VW]

So it is you that are the great knower of mens hearts?
I see you want to discuss matters without using any scriptures like I asked and rather focus on me. For future reference its always better to provide scripture. Whenever you want to discuss scriptures rather than where my heart is at then the door is always open, friend.

Jesus is the knower of what is in mens hearts.

I discussed scripture, just did not quote it, and this is wrong how?

You believe in the resurrection, in this you do good. But do you know that in Christ, there is life, everlasting life, life without end? And that this is why Jesus came into the world, to give us life, and that more abundantly? Martha believed that in the last day, the dead would rise at His word, but Jesus answered her and said:

I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live, even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die.

This is what is important in the work of Christ. Not that we have a perfect understanding of end time events, not that we know when the resurrection is, because we are alive in Him, and that is beyond the resurrection. We are written in the book of life, that is Jesus, and we are alive in Him never to die.

Listen again, to the scripture I provided you, but you did not recognize it.

Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear shall live.(When shall they live, next week or next year, or at the resurrection?) For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to exexute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, (notice that this hour is not yet come,) in which all who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; those who did good to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil to a resurrection of judgment.

Have we heard His voice, and have we become alive in Him? This is what matters. There is a resurrection, but as those who are in Him, are we bound to the tomb? Is not our life hidden in God with Christ, in heaven, right now?

No, I see your predilection with the correctness of our understanding of end time events to be at best distracting. We know that He is coming, and we know that He has not yet come. That is enough, seeing that we are risen up in Him, in His resurrection, now.

 

[BestBeWishing]

Quest, I am going to give you the true meaning of this scripture as it was freely given to me.

Luke 21:23
But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Here we see wrath upon these people. I have heard many different crazy interpretations about this verse even that starving people will be eating their babies. Wrath is always from God. Will God have wrath for people for simply being parents? Wrath is G3709 in the strongs and is always connected to Gods wrath upon man. Thats not the God we know.

You must keep in mind that we are to be the bride of Christ and this theme is throughout Gods word.. He is now preparing a place for her and will come to get her. We are to remain spiritual virgins for wedding. We are not to be harlots. Those that are with child are those that have already been spiritually impregnated. That have partaken in a spiritual wedding with the fake thats coming and claiming to be Christ. The product of a marriage is a child and thats the meaning of Christs saying.

2 Corinthians 11
1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
That 'another Jesus' is the fake thats coming.

Beloved,
you are a true Christain with understanding, one of Gods elect, It is most important for our Brothers and Sisters, that you keep your fight for thier Salvation, In my prayers I have called our Father to see your works, as he knows your fight well, God Bless You " MikTre"