Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

[mj007]

The spirit of defilement is full of lies, but the real depth of it is in not seeing it in yourself. But the spirit of discernment sees it in others, and the spirit of awareness sees it in self. With such conviction in what they might say, they do not see the sin in it. Antagonism for example is not in the spirit of God, it is in the spirit of the self, carnal mind.

What you can often do is take their words to mean the opposite. For example:

I'm sure you are a good guy > I see you as a bad guy
Nothing personal > This is personal
This is not a game to me > This is a game to me
I care deeply > I don't care deeply enough
I hear story after story > I hear a few stories from people I assume are telling me the truth

Many speak in a kind of 'what they want you to think' way. They want to befriend you of course? They don't want to be enemies? Suppression of anger?

Love your enemies, see them as friends, and there are no enemies.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Opppsss..just saw where I left out the word "can't".

The statement should say.

We can't "force" others to see it like we do.

We CAN'T???
Then what are we doing here...?
Why do we continue it week after week, month after month, year after year?
Why would we keep having the same exact conversations with the same exact people for so long if we can't force them to see it like we do?
What do you think God is up to...?

 

[PeterJens]

Righteous indignation

How is it one person or a group feel they have the ministry to righteously judge
another because of one statement or belief. And this statement is so subtle it could
actually be missed. And worse still the person does not believe it.

So the whole work of Christ in another comes down to being valid if they hold one
idea or not. And yet, it is stated time and again, we all make mistakes in emphasis or
interpretation, no one has it all just right.

Then how if this is true, suddenly this one issue is the foundation of evil in the world
and how wicked, demon led this group over there are.

Is this not deception, one set of principles put forward and then another used when convenient.
I say this when a group were talking with the pope. Oh isn't the pope good etc.
Or the mormons, they are not so bad with the latter rain theology.

But this one idea, and I am an outcast, not even worthy of praying with Christ as a brother,
all my praise to God being empty, so bad that I should be thrown out of church, banned from
christian forums.

There is something decidedly odd going on. Maybe the word of the Lord is being spoken and
maybe any compromise is ok except with the word of God. Either you desire things of God or
you do not. This is a narrow path, and all except the elect oppose it. So be careful you do not
find yourself on the wrong side of Gods work.

 

[truthhurts]

hmm,, I seem to remember asking you a serious question a few days ago. I still have not seen you answer.


And all I have seen today is attack of a persons character, and strawman arguments which can honestly go both ways.

SO who really has the issue here? I think a person needs to remove a quite large log before he even thinks he has a right to judge someone else. who he does not even know..

you called that a serious question? It was a well baited trap.....I don't judge a person character I judge their motives and this DC fella talks constantly out of both sides of his mouth and belittles, bullies and rants and raves and then glories in himself when he gets trapped and cannot refute the truth of his pretext doctrines...

His motives to the young man rough soul was simple...don't lecture me fool, I have 28 years and a seminary degree...I know what I am talking about and you don't...so let me show you what I have done personally to be more superior than you...

In essence DC was being a Pharisee like in John 9.34

[SUP]34 [/SUP]They answered him, “You were born entirely in sins, and are you teaching us?” So they put him out.
The first one to play the formal Bible education card is defending personal pride not defending personal faith...

 

[truthhurts]

yes, a lot of people on here should try to grasp the concept that this is a DISCUSSION forum, not an attack anyone who dares ask a question forum.

practice what you preach....the grace and benefits minded only crowd runs this board...there is no discussion with the hand full of gods here, there is only the need to be right and trounce anyone else that might mess up more reps and green hash marks...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you called that a serious question? It was a well baited trap.....I don't judge a person character I judge their motives and this DC fella talks constantly out of both sides of his mouth and belittles, bullies and rants and raves and then glories in himself when he gets trapped and cannot refute the truth of his pretext doctrines...

I asked you a trap question a few days ago? Tell me, How was that a trap?

DC can be harsh, I will agree, But everything you just said can be said about alot of people in here, Yourself included.

His motives to the young man rough soul was simple...don't lecture me fool, I have 28 years and a seminary degree...I know what I am talking about and you don't...so let me show you what I have done personally to be more superior than you...

Lets see.. He was told by quite a few, You are taking scripture out of Context, He was told he was privately interpreting a text (a catholic trick I may add) He was told he was picking and choosing verses which only supported his own belief. All of which was people (including that young man you was speaking about ) boasting of their superior knowledge, and how they KNOW the truth, and keep shoving their SUPERIOR knowledge than his, And basically using argument after argument that could also be used against them. And you want tp judge him for showing people he did not just start reading the bible yesterday?

Quite hypocritical is it not?

In essence DC was being a Pharisee like in John 9.34

[SUP]34 [/SUP]They answered him, “You were born entirely in sins, and are you teaching us?” So they put him out.
The first one to play the formal Bible education card is defending personal pride not defending personal faith...

I see that from alot of people. Including yourself. And i know I am not innocent.

I think we all need to take a look in the mirror don't you? maybe if we all did that, Things would not get so heated and we could actually start to discuss the word..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

practice what you preach....the grace and benefits minded only crowd runs this board...there is no discussion with the hand full of gods here, there is only the need to be right and trounce anyone else that might mess up more reps and green hash marks...

This goes for both sides,, One side is not innocent..

 

[Roughsoul1991]

You have not shown how or what anyone would abandon faith.

Not to mention that fact, If God is omniscient like he claims. You have him saving a person he KNEW BEFORE HAND would abandon their so called faith. Which means he made a mistake in giving a person ETERNAL LIFE, the SEAL OF THE SPIRIT, the ADOPTION AS SONS. knowing that within the next few decades (a mere blink of an eye to him, He would have to take it back.





Why? Because when a person claims God is less of a parent than an earth family which is flawed by the flesh. It is quite an insult to him and his character, would you not agree?

Your right, God does not tolerate flesh behavior. That is where grace abounds, Because 1 sin is enough to make us guilty beyond the ability to save ourselves (the death penalty)

Is God all seeing or all controlling?

I explained this in one of my past started thread about time.

God doesn't control anyone. He sees everything meaning he doesn't control our choices but he sees what the end outcome is of our choices. Not limiting his power by us by he himself limits his power to respect free will.

Faith is not considered a work. Grace is the gift of God and faith is the human action to be given grace.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

You have not shown how or what anyone would abandon faith.

Not to mention that fact, If God is omniscient like he claims. You have him saving a person he KNEW BEFORE HAND would abandon their so called faith. Which means he made a mistake in giving a person ETERNAL LIFE, the SEAL OF THE SPIRIT, the ADOPTION AS SONS. knowing that within the next few decades (a mere blink of an eye to him, He would have to take it back.





Why? Because when a person claims God is less of a parent than an earth family which is flawed by the flesh. It is quite an insult to him and his character, would you not agree?

Your right, God does not tolerate flesh behavior. That is where grace abounds, Because 1 sin is enough to make us guilty beyond the ability to save ourselves (the death penalty)

This is the exact thing Jude warns against. You are saying" sin really wont hurt us much. Yah we shouldn't practice it but if we did we are still secured. So really just live, be merry and enjoy the grace. Your sins are covered and since we all fall short, why would God have us try. Therefore the teachings are only guidlines and not really directed to you keeping your salvation. All the scripture about remain faithful, believe, falling away is all directed to non believers and false believers( because you believe no one can fall away so you call anyone that does false)."
Sadly you are perverting the message of grace.
You are stoning the relationship part of the believer. The remain faithful part of scripture.

 

[dcontroversal]

I asked you a trap question a few days ago? Tell me, How was that a trap?

DC can be harsh, I will agree, But everything you just said can be said about alot of people in here, Yourself included.




Lets see.. He was told by quite a few, You are taking scripture out of Context, He was told he was privately interpreting a text (a catholic trick I may add) He was told he was picking and choosing verses which only supported his own belief. All of which was people (including that young man you was speaking about ) boasting of their superior knowledge, and how they KNOW the truth, and keep shoving their SUPERIOR knowledge than his, And basically using argument after argument that could also be used against them. And you want tp judge him for showing people he did not just start reading the bible yesterday?

Quite hypocritical is it not?



I see that from alot of people. Including yourself. And i know I am not innocent.

I think we all need to take a look in the mirror don't you? maybe if we all did that, Things would not get so heated and we could actually start to discuss the word..

Amen.....truth here.....funny how hypocritical they can be......we get sick of it and stand up and Katy Bar the door we are such and such.....I guess the best thing to do is not engage cake takers..........

 

[dcontroversal]

Whereas I was describing a title for position you were making a point and glorying in your self....

Not quite hypocrite....and you judged my motive....which you cannot do with certainty.....

 

[truthhurts]

Not quite hypocrite....and you judged my motive....which you cannot do with certainty.....

Continue the name calling please......

My oh My squeeze the fruit and you see what comes out of it.....your motive was clear to a preschooler....

Look at me, I have 28 years of line by line revelation knowledge and a 4 YEAR BIBLE COLLEGE DEGREE!!!! all others bow down to my superior Bible knowledge....if the opposite were true you would have not felt the need to tell anyone of your Formal Bible College training....

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Amen.....truth here.....funny how hypocritical they can be......we get sick of it and stand up and Katy Bar the door we are such and such.....I guess the best thing to do is not engage cake takers..........

Please oh pleeeeease dont engage others who believe different than you, i think the strongest argument OSAS believers have is to remain silent and allow others to think they know something we dont. Otherwise once we debate....

But once yall begin to debate and all the evidence is used against yall, most not all revert to childishness.

Same tactics i saw in the US election

 

[dcontroversal]

Continue the name calling please......

My oh My squeeze the fruit and you see what comes out of it.....your motive was clear to a preschooler....

Look at me, I have 28 years of line by line revelation knowledge and a 4 YEAR BIBLE COLLEGE DEGREE!!!! all others bow down to my superior Bible knowledge....if the opposite were true you would have not felt the need to tell anyone of your Formal Bible College training....

Not calling you a name...just stating facts....wear the boot with pride pal...your folly will be known soon enough...You should change your name to...I can't acknowledge the truth

 

[PeterJens]

Continue the name calling please......

My oh My squeeze the fruit and you see what comes out of it.....your motive was clear to a preschooler....

Look at me, I have 28 years of line by line revelation knowledge and a 4 YEAR BIBLE COLLEGE DEGREE!!!! all others bow down to my superior Bible knowledge....if the opposite were true you would have not felt the need to tell anyone of your Formal Bible College training....

dc - he was trained to be the wonderful blessing he is to everyone.

Please tell me with theological establishment he went to and I will remember to avoid it.
Jesus called one group of people they were satanic.

These were the people who thought they were spiritually safe while being hypocrites and
were able to say Jesus's works could only be done by satan. The other group of individuals
were believers who inadvertantly became tools of the enemy.

I think this should humble us to realise we can be deceived and work for the enemy by mistake
especially if we let worldly considerations compromise the principles of heaven.
Secondly any group can be moved by God and without careful investigation it is easy to jump
to the wrong conclusions because we think we know what is or is not the case.

This is why I find it worrying when any believer declares another believer is evil, because
they express themselves differently. This dishonours both the work of the Lord in themselves
and their brothers and sisters. If the behaviour continues, it demonstrates they are actually
a cause of dissension and condemnation, and not part of the body at all.

Now the problem is people who behave like this are quite capable of lying and changing their
behaviour to cover their tracks, and appear whiter than snow. But it does not matter, a bad
tree will always bring bad fruit, so unless they destroy their tree and plant a living tree from
the Kingdom they are forever flawed.

And beware their whole power base is to appear like a sheep, and only occasionally shred
victims when others are not looking.

 

[truthhurts]

Not calling you a name...just stating facts....wear the boot with pride pal...your folly will be known soon enough...You should change your name to...I can't acknowledge the truth

oh my the dreaded internet threat....are you 2 or 50?

 

[dcontroversal]

Please oh pleeeeease dont engage others who believe different than you, i think the strongest argument OSAS believers have is to remain silent and allow others to think they know something we dont. Otherwise once we debate....

But once yall begin to debate and all the evidence is used against yall, most not all revert to childishness.

Same tactics i saw in the US election

You don't debate a thing pal....you like everyone else who push works and your false gospel....nothing but peddling falsehoods ahahahh hilarious

 

[dcontroversal]

oh my the dreaded internet threat....are you 2 or 50?

Are you really that dense?......just like judging motive..now you accuse of a threat.....YOUR HILARIOUS.....SO..how's the cake?

 

[dcontroversal]

I see the workers for are really showing their biblical Christianity today....you guys will have to do more works than the Pharisees to make up for your anti-Christian bloviating.....the cake takers.....glad to see your sin coming out in a thread about sin.....

 

[PeterJens]

You don't debate a thing pal....you like everyone else who push works and your false gospel....nothing but peddling falsehoods ahahahh hilarious

dc - testimony after testimony is you abusing people or just stone walling them.

This is not standing for truth and letting the facts play out is discussion so the conviction
of reality hits home, it is being a religious follower who wants to pick off their opponents
through any means possible, and abuse is just one of the arsenal.

Now I do believe you have a good heart and have a sincere contribution to make, so I
wonder what has turned you into such a hard hearted cantacronous person?