SALVATION BASED ON FAITH

[John146]

Do you believe in evidence of conversion?

Can you list some works that would be on your "evidence of conversion" list that would separate a believer from a non-believer?

 

[PeterJens]

Can you list some works that would be on your "evidence of conversion" list that would separate a believer from a non-believer?

Praying with conviction to Jesus
Reading the bible and gaining insights from its words
Helping others with a loving heart
Singing praise songs from the heart which stir their emotions
Repenting of their sins, confessing their weakness and their faith to others,
relying on Christ to help them through all aspects of their daily life.

This is just a few of the signs someone has come to faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have read through a lot of your previous posts....they never do tell us what you do believe....but one thing does shine through brightly...anything regarding abiding, bearing fruit, making disciples, sharing the Gospel, total surrender to the Lord Jesus Christ, and anything pertaining to becoming a new creation you without hesitation discredit, discomfit, destroy and dismantle.......why is that? Why is it that in every thread , every discussion you are there, telling people they are just works based self righteous pharisees?

There you go again, Slander must be your middle name?

I have said it once, I have said it 1000 times, The only people I do that to are people who preach that salvation is based on how we merit.

So give it up.

I have told you at least 20x I do not believe in a works based salvation, yet it never appeases you, and then the word games begin and the semantics and the circular logic and back to first base you take everyone...

All I can do is go off what you say, I guess I can ask if now you have changed and understand we are eternally secure in the Lord based on his work. And not based on our action (or inaction)

When did you change?

It is so evident you don't like to be told that Jesus wants all of you and you have to surrender it all to him.....Surrender is easy when you can fully come to the place of understanding what he and he alone did for you....I f you cannot totally surrender, your are just in mental assent and easy belief....

Oh you can tell me that all day, and i will agree with you 100 % The problem is you have never asked me, You already have it in your head you KNOW what I believe..

And your wrong,, But like PJ and a few others, you refuse to repent and admit you could be wrong.

You are pretty new, To think you know it all just shows your pride.. (or have you been here before and sneeked back in?

we don't do things for the kingdom to obtain or maintain salvation or righteousness, we do it because out of love for what he has done for us....this makes about the 100th time I have posted this to you and turn right around and rant and rave that I am a works based self righteous Pharisee...

Ok prove it, can salvation be lost?

Can eternal life be lost?

Can the seal of the spirit be broken BEFORE the day of redemption

Can our justification (which has been said to be complete) be broken?

Can our adoption be nullified

Can our inheritance be broken?

Jesus said we will never hunger, never thirst, Live forever, Never die, HAVE eternal life, and WILL be raised on the last day (as apposed to being delivered to him for judgment) Did Jesus lie?

Giving him all is indeed very scary....

It is? why is it scary? Can a person who became a puny man, walked the earth and suffered like he did on my behalf, who allowed himself to be brutally murdered, and take the full wrath of the father, be someone to be scared of?

Thats the problem with legalism, it makes God into a scary person, When all God ever wanted to do was just love ud, As proven by the fact he gave his life.

But hey, I know you will not listen to me, so listen to paul

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

there is nothing to fear. God promised to come to him and he will give us rest.. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself..

trust is not a measure of righteousness or salvation....but it is needed to grow up spiritually...

And it takes growth, and walking in darness, and taking steps of faith for this to happen.. It is why we always will trust God, because he never lets us down, As we grow we realise the only time we fail is when we trusgt SELF, and try to do things on our own..

That is what I have learned, That is whyt I will NEVER boast in self. because every time I say, thats ok God I got this now.. I screw it up.

if you want to stay still that's up to you...but stop attacking those that out of a motivation of God's love propel the kingdom for you....God's gonna ask you one day for your talent and you will unbury and tell him...here look at me, you did it all I did not have to....

Here we go again,

As I have told peter many times, Take this last paragraph, point it to a mirror. and Say these words to yourself. Then take your own advise..

While your at it,, think of the questions I just asked you. And show me why God lied.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The problem is that they cannot distinguish between evidence of conversion and a false works Gospel. Since those of that tribe cannot make the contradistinction, all others who do see it must be maligned and attacked. For the record, not only have I never witnessed one of their ilk properly treat descriptive passages, I've never seen one of them even take the time to attempt to do so. They're too busy attacking others.

Nothing against them bro, but the fact is that since they cannot make these distinctions it shows a severe lack of understanding the elementary doctrines of the Gospel.

SO you are mr know it all too?

No, we have no problem with this, People who come to God will show change, They will not act as if nothing happened, this is what the word says, We are not against them, in fact, we will come along side them and help them grow if they wish..

What we have an issue with again, Is people who say salvation, which is by grace THROUGH faith, can be lost.. They are trusting is self. in their ability to do whatever requirement is needed to stay saved.

Be it the massive amount of sacraments of the roman church, to the watered down sacraments of some in the reformed church, to churches who say all we have to do is abide, which is just a fancy word for saying we must continue to by holy and righteous people. and do what God said, if we astop abiding, we will stop being holy, and we will lose salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you believe in evidence of conversion?

1. A person who is saved will change,, He or she may not become super duper mature christian, But some part of their life will change, You can not say you have faith and do NOTHING the person you have faith in says, and the HS will not allow you to stay still long, his chastening will bring about change. "he who begun a good work WILL COMPLETE IT till the day of christ,, Who can fight this?

2. Works do not prove a person is saved, Many people can learn to play christian and do all kinds of things, It does not prove they ever found God in salvation (Matt 7: 21- 23)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No he does not....

And here we have what must be a self prophesed diety in the flesh, He knows what everyone thinks,, (which only God knows this)

I am calling you out dude, Will you repent, or continue this nonsense,, Let me know, Your prety new here, maybe the mods have not met you, I will be glad to introduce them to you for your slanderous ways.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I figured as much. The epistle of 1 John begs to differ and shows the necessity of evidence. Thus, 1 John 5:13, often ripped from context is referring only to those who pass the test of what a believer is as qualified in this letter.

Belief has evidence.

Yeah

How about hebrews 11. And the faith hall of fame, Faith has evidence

How about james 2, Those who claim to have faith, But have zero zip nada, can their faith save? Well of course not, Because faith ALWAYS WORKS.

Do you have any ore slanderous words you would like to say about me?? I can introduce you to some people too..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh, and by the way, 2 Timothy 3:5 talks of these who deny evidence of conversion which is called godliness. They have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof. This is a denial of the transforming power of the Gospel, note 2 Corinthians 3:17ff.

These also despise those who are good (those who live in godliness).

Finally, note these two things; 1) The solemn declaration of those who deny this godliness described in this passage; 2) 2 Timothy 3:12 in light of this.

Well it is a good thing I do not deny this, Nore do any of the people you have been attacking the past few days.

Of course, You will never believe this.. that would take humility..

Then again, We all can pray and have hope. even saul repented..

 

[notuptome]

The problem is that they cannot distinguish between evidence of conversion and a false works Gospel. Since those of that tribe cannot make the contradistinction, all others who do see it must be maligned and attacked. For the record, not only have I never witnessed one of their ilk properly treat descriptive passages, I've never seen one of them even take the time to attempt to do so. They're too busy attacking others.

Nothing against them bro, but the fact is that since they cannot make these distinctions it shows a severe lack of understanding the elementary doctrines of the Gospel.

Not up to us to make the distinction. God alone knows the hearts and we are enjoined not to endeavor to judge in the matter of another's salvation.

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Mt 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mt 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mt 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mt 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mt 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Mt 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen brother! We are saved by a living faith (Ephesians 2:5-10) not a dead faith (James 2:14-20).

Amen, No matter how often these people say we believe in a dead faith salvation and reject discipleship and christian growth, The truth always comes out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why would anyone believe Salvation could be based on anything other than faith? I do not see the reason for debate.

It is all over the bible. and we see it in here. In fact, all world religions teach this, so it is not a far fetched idea to understand that satan would contaminate the gospel with his message of works and put the name of christ in it to make it sound good

Why would anyone believe this, then deny it, that is the question I think needs asked,

 

[preacher4truth]

Why would anyone believe Salvation could be based on anything other than faith? I do not see the reason for debate.

Do the Scriptures describe what one with true faith looks like? Do the Scriptures describe what one with a false faith looks like? Must one repent? Do the Scriptures describe evidence of conversion? The answer is a resounding yes to all. We have reason to debate. Salvation isn't easy-believe-ism.

 

[preacher4truth]

Not up to us to make the distinction.

Actually it is for our own account. 2 Corinthians 13:5. The tests in the epistle of 1 John, then the application of 1 John 5:13, or not.

God alone knows the hearts and we are enjoined not to endeavor to judge in the matter of another's salvation.

I never suggested this so it's moot. Argue what was said, not what you think was said. Also, to throw this in there since you brought it up 'a tree is known by its fruit'. If a man tells me he hates God, church, the Bible and curses Him and wants to go to hell, then I can judge the man is lost and needs Christ.

 

[notuptome]

Do the Scriptures describe what one with true faith looks like? Do the Scriptures describe what one with a false faith looks like? Must one repent? Do the Scriptures describe evidence of conversion. The answer is a resounding yes to all. We have reason to debate. Salvation isn't easy-believe-ism.

And yet unity is not uniformity.

Easy believe-ism so called is not easy.

Romans 14 and 15 speak of weak and strong believers. It also speaks of having one mind regarding Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do the Scriptures describe what one with true faith looks like? Do the Scriptures describe what one with a false faith looks like? Must one repent? Do the Scriptures describe evidence of conversion. The answer is a resounding yes to all. We have reason to debate. Salvation isn't easy-believe-ism.

Yes the scriptures do. No one here is preaching easy believism, The only ones who even state others are are those who are fighting people focused on The grace of christ, That sad part is, We could be united in fighting liscentiousness and talk about discipleship and christian growth, But we cna not do that when we are apposed in the gospel.

it also describes what a works based gospel looks like.

The problem is, You can not fight a lisenctious gospel with legalism. It does not work. The scripture also states that if ANYONE teaches a gospel which is different in any way from the gospel taught in scripture. it is to be accursed..

You do not fight a licentious gospel with legalism, The jews tried that and failed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

By the way, People are not offended that God is god. they are offended by his people. who do not represent God.. but call themselves children of God..

 

[preacher4truth]

By the way, People are not offended that God is god.<sic>

You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually it is for our own account. 2 Corinthians 13:5. The tests in the epistle of 1 John, then the application of 1 John 5:13, or not.

If your saying what I think, I agree,, James is for the same purpose. to test our faith, and see if our faiht is real or dead, not for people to judge other people.

I never suggested this so it's moot. Argue what was said, not what you think was said. Also, to throw this in there since you brought it up 'a tree is known by its fruit'. If a man tells me he hates God, church, the Bible and curses Him and wants to go to hell, then I can judge the man is lost and needs Christ.

I would agree here too.. And I would never in my wildest dreams think this person was ever saved, even if he grew up in a church, or was ever even part of a church at one time..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah whatever,, The people I talk to. That is what they all say,, Restaurants I go to.. I hear from the waitresses that the worse people to serve are people who call themselves Christians, they are the rudest, The most judgmental, and the least generous of all people groups.. People at work are offended at the know it all, self righteous christians who talk the talk, but do not walk the walk. (I have to now try to show these people this is not what Christianity is about)

Maybe you need to get out some??

 

[FreeNChrist]

Do the Scriptures describe what one with true faith looks like? Do the Scriptures describe what one with a false faith looks like? Must one repent? Do the Scriptures describe evidence of conversion? The answer is a resounding yes to all. We have reason to debate. Salvation isn't easy-believe-ism.

Do you think the Scriptures description of what one with true faith looks like, looks like you??