SALVATION BASED ON FAITH
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My ark is Jesus Christ and His resurrection(2 Peter 2). I have been preaching to men similar to the men of Nineveh, and seen them repent. I have faced the mark of the beast which has been unbelief since it was first given in John's time..
Not everyone is in a place where they cannot buy or sell, I do not belong to the Roman guilds of John's time. I was saved in the same way as Abraham was. ALL Scripture applies to me.
You have built up a fanciful picture of a period unknown to Scripture. Your interpretation of James is abysmal.
E
I am not the one confused my friend, I know exactly what I am talking about..
I never said people who engaged in trusting God in areas of their lives are engaged in a works based salvation. You have now joined your brother PJ in proving you have utterly no idea what I believe, and I pray that unlike him, you will repent of your misunderstanding, and try to understand..
I have said and always said, People who do it to BE SAVED, or to keep from LOSING THEIR salvation are engaged in a works based gospel..
HUGE difference my friend..
I have been working my whole lifetime to learn and trust God more and more in all areas of my life, So if just that is being a works based person, Then I would be judging myself and my brothers and sisters who do the same.
There you go again, more slander, and false accusations.
Dude, you do not understand what I believe, Until then stop thinking your God an d you know..
Your have it right up until the last part.
Your placing doing what God commands in our daily lives as a result of salvation. so your stuck all the way back to home plate..
See, you are all about you and self righteousness,, You think you have to hit a home run to get to heaven.. Good luck with that..
welcome to Peter Jenz world of slander.. I pray again, you are not like him and actually repent and try to find what people actually believe, and not what you THINK they believe.
E
Oh I can take everything you put up to me, You can call me every name in the book, will not take one minute of my life.. nor take one second of my eternal life.
But as long as you continue to slander me and bare false witness against me
All you do is damage yourself. and prove most of the attacks you make against me, You need to put in a mirror and read to yourself (like,, I do not know what I am talking about and other slurs you love to use)
But as long as you continue to slander me and bare false witness against me
All you do is damage yourself. and prove most of the attacks you make against me, You need to put in a mirror and read to yourself (like,, I do not know what I am talking about and other slurs you love to use)
I would like to point out, this contributor must not be a christian, if on a christian forum,
arguing for the gospel against fellow believers he declares after being here for years
we have no idea what he believes.
Either he is lying or he is a very poor communicator.
But I think he means it like a curse, you foolish heathen, I am so far above you, you cannot
imagine the depths of wisdom and knowledge I really have, hahahahaha.
Unfortunately it just shows a weak device used by a belligerent arguer who repeats the same
tired argument he accepted Christ and does nothing and is saved, and all the opposition are
legalist wicked evil hypocrites doomed to hell. Now that is not really hard to admit or even
declare, I did it in one sentence. His bible is only an A4 sheet of paper, like the image of
God he is pushing, a trojan horse with more problems than any blessing if you get on board.
arguing for the gospel against fellow believers he declares after being here for years
we have no idea what he believes.
Either he is lying or he is a very poor communicator.
But I think he means it like a curse, you foolish heathen, I am so far above you, you cannot
imagine the depths of wisdom and knowledge I really have, hahahahaha.
Unfortunately it just shows a weak device used by a belligerent arguer who repeats the same
tired argument he accepted Christ and does nothing and is saved, and all the opposition are
legalist wicked evil hypocrites doomed to hell. Now that is not really hard to admit or even
declare, I did it in one sentence. His bible is only an A4 sheet of paper, like the image of
God he is pushing, a trojan horse with more problems than any blessing if you get on board.
I have read through a lot of your previous posts....they never do tell us what you do believe....but one thing does shine through brightly...anything regarding abiding, bearing fruit, making disciples, sharing the Gospel, total surrender to the Lord Jesus Christ, and anything pertaining to becoming a new creation you without hesitation discredit, discomfit, destroy and dismantle.......why is that? Why is it that in every thread , every discussion you are there, telling people they are just works based self righteous pharisees?
I have told you at least 20x I do not believe in a works based salvation, yet it never appeases you, and then the word games begin and the semantics and the circular logic and back to first base you take everyone...
It is so evident you don't like to be told that Jesus wants all of you and you have to surrender it all to him.....Surrender is easy when you can fully come to the place of understanding what he and he alone did for you....I f you cannot totally surrender, your are just in mental assent and easy belief....
we don't do things for the kingdom to obtain or maintain salvation or righteousness, we do it because out of love for what he has done for us....this makes about the 100th time I have posted this to you and turn right around and rant and rave that I am a works based self righteous Pharisee....
Giving him all is indeed very scary.....trust is not a measure of righteousness or salvation....but it is needed to grow up spiritually...if you want to stay still that's up to you...but stop attacking those that out of a motivation of God's love propel the kingdom for you....God's gonna ask you one day for your talent and you will unbury and tell him...here look at me, you did it all I did not have to....
I have told you at least 20x I do not believe in a works based salvation, yet it never appeases you, and then the word games begin and the semantics and the circular logic and back to first base you take everyone...
It is so evident you don't like to be told that Jesus wants all of you and you have to surrender it all to him.....Surrender is easy when you can fully come to the place of understanding what he and he alone did for you....I f you cannot totally surrender, your are just in mental assent and easy belief....
we don't do things for the kingdom to obtain or maintain salvation or righteousness, we do it because out of love for what he has done for us....this makes about the 100th time I have posted this to you and turn right around and rant and rave that I am a works based self righteous Pharisee....
Giving him all is indeed very scary.....trust is not a measure of righteousness or salvation....but it is needed to grow up spiritually...if you want to stay still that's up to you...but stop attacking those that out of a motivation of God's love propel the kingdom for you....God's gonna ask you one day for your talent and you will unbury and tell him...here look at me, you did it all I did not have to....
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He appears to have a burning hatred of what he used to be and has commited himself
to the ministry of rooting out legalism in the church.
Though in his mind it is an honourable task, it goes through a few simple stages.
People are identified as legalists, works salvationists and every means is used to undermine
them, wind them up, abuse them harrass them, get them banned, accuse them of lying and
the vilest things possible because he sincerely believes what he is saying is true.
Unfortunately it just wastes hours of others peoples time and appears co-herent, but is just
a propoganda machine where all the counter arguments are just ignored out of hand.
He is smart in one degree. By focusing on the others responses, and accusing evil from
them, things are escalated out of nothing into the worst kind of feelings he can create.
Some loose it, but mostly he looses it and has to spend a week away raging at the evil
deceivers he is facing. Personally ignoring him is the best strategy, because he is so
set on his blinked view, he does not bat an eyelid at obvious problems.
God bless you
to the ministry of rooting out legalism in the church.
Though in his mind it is an honourable task, it goes through a few simple stages.
People are identified as legalists, works salvationists and every means is used to undermine
them, wind them up, abuse them harrass them, get them banned, accuse them of lying and
the vilest things possible because he sincerely believes what he is saying is true.
Unfortunately it just wastes hours of others peoples time and appears co-herent, but is just
a propoganda machine where all the counter arguments are just ignored out of hand.
He is smart in one degree. By focusing on the others responses, and accusing evil from
them, things are escalated out of nothing into the worst kind of feelings he can create.
Some loose it, but mostly he looses it and has to spend a week away raging at the evil
deceivers he is facing. Personally ignoring him is the best strategy, because he is so
set on his blinked view, he does not bat an eyelid at obvious problems.
God bless you
The problem is that they cannot distinguish between evidence of conversion and a false works Gospel. Since those of that tribe cannot make the contradistinction, all others who do see it must be maligned and attacked. For the record, not only have I never witnessed one of their ilk properly treat descriptive passages, I've never seen one of them even take the time to attempt to do so. They're too busy attacking others.
Nothing against them bro, but the fact is that since they cannot make these distinctions it shows a severe lack of understanding the elementary doctrines of the Gospel.
Nothing against them bro, but the fact is that since they cannot make these distinctions it shows a severe lack of understanding the elementary doctrines of the Gospel.
Months ago he claimed through questioning he could tell if someone
was saved by how they answered his questions. He was very confident about
this, but maybe not now, when faced with people a lot smarter than he is.
He does trip himself up, and accuse others of things he himself has just done.
He will change his approach and do something that is effective but he said was very bad
before. It can get comical, which in some ways why he is provocative rather than
a serious problem. g7 is more of a straight propogandist, and likes mixing his ideas
and confusing people with his reponses when compared to what he actually believes.
was saved by how they answered his questions. He was very confident about
this, but maybe not now, when faced with people a lot smarter than he is.
He does trip himself up, and accuse others of things he himself has just done.
He will change his approach and do something that is effective but he said was very bad
before. It can get comical, which in some ways why he is provocative rather than
a serious problem. g7 is more of a straight propogandist, and likes mixing his ideas
and confusing people with his reponses when compared to what he actually believes.
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I figured as much. The epistle of 1 John begs to differ and shows the necessity of evidence. Thus, 1 John 5:13, often ripped from context is referring only to those who pass the test of what a believer is as qualified in this letter.
Belief has evidence.
Belief has evidence.
These also despise those who are good (those who live in godliness).
Finally, note these two things; 1) The solemn declaration of those who deny this godliness described in this passage; 2) 2 Timothy 3:12 in light of this.
I, for one, would like to hear you explain it more, and I don't argue, fight or get mean. Even when someone gets mean with me, I just keep on having a good conversation. I'm not so easily offended.
I have labored over this point too!
I have concluded that the faith is a small measure implanted - it is a gift or a bestowal.
What I then do with that faith is my response to the grace I've been shown in having my eyes opened. Do I keep tending to it or do I bury it and then have only the same amount when the man returns?
I think the parable of the man giving the talents and then going away and returning applies to this.
I'm not so easily offended.I have labored over this point too!
I have concluded that the faith is a small measure implanted - it is a gift or a bestowal.
What I then do with that faith is my response to the grace I've been shown in having my eyes opened. Do I keep tending to it or do I bury it and then have only the same amount when the man returns?
I think the parable of the man giving the talents and then going away and returning applies to this.
Because of sin, you can not understand or see the truth of the Gospel. I Corinthians 2:14 I Corinthians 2:14 “The natural person (sinner) does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.” II Corinthians 4:4 "In their (sinners) case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." As a sinner we can not understand, seek, do good, why because we are slaves to sin, a slave can not free themselves. We are lead by satan and he has blinded us, I love reading the miracles of Jesus, they paint pictures of us, we were bling, but God causes us to see, we were lame, but God causes us to walk in good work. Ephesians 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." God's grace in the miracles of Jesus.
When we are in that state there is nothing good in us or do we seek God. Plus we do not understand faith, believing, repenting or anything that has to do with salvation. This is why Jesus said in, John 3:3 "“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” We need to be born again to understand the kingdom of God. Here's the beautiful part. "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved" He makes us alive because of His mercy, great love, He loved us, made us alive, born again, what is the result. I Corinthians 2:12 "Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God."
Here's how 2:5-7 reads without the insertion of "-by grace you have been saved-" "made us alive together with Christ6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus." Paul gives a quick commentary on how God's mercy work in our salvation, between initial salvation and he expands on it after he has explained the full benefit of our salvation from start to finish. 2-10 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
He's doing this so we can understand, that Psalm 3:8, Job 2:9 and soon to be revealed Revelation 7:10 "Salvation belongs to the Lord; your blessing be on your people! Seals" Not to us, we receive it but, the Lord is the one who saves from start, being born again to glorified bodies to being with His forever. It's not our doing, we were slaves to sin, blinded by the prince of this world, we had no understanding, there was no good in us, we did not seek God or His righteousness, we hated God. That's why it God's grace that saves us, but we have a responsibility as well, our faith that we can now see a need for it. Because God has caused us to see, by making us alive with Christ.
If we received grace because of faith, it would be by God's grace, Paul would of said, "-by faith you have been saved-", he was adding our part of salvation to the equation and 2:8 would read, "For by faith you have been saved through grace", as we know, he did not do that.
Here's how our salvation is, it starts in eternity and ends in eternity. Election, Calling and Regeneration - Faith and Repentance - Justification and Adoption - Sanctification and Assurance - Preseverance and Glorification.
He elects us before time began, He calls us through the Gospel, He causes us to be born again. He show us the need for faith and repenting by the Gospel of truth and the Spirit, we respond. By faith He justifies us and He adopts us to an inheritance. He sanctifies us, we walk in the good works He has prepared for us by the Spirit that sealed us. His guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, our glorified bodies.
Born again, regeneration, faith and repentance, happens at the same time. We are hearing or have heard the Gospel of truth, the Spirit make us alive from our trespasses and sins by regeneration (born of water and the Spirit), we see the kingdom and the need for faith and repentance, we respond to God's calling, because He has opened our eyes to see the kingdom of God.When you realize the weight of your sin before a Holy God, the fear of judgement falls on you, when He forgives you, you now see what great love He loved you with, you will worship Him and live Him for His great grace that saved you from the eternal judgement of Hell.
I know that's a lot, but I needed to set the stage to bring as much of the need of God's intervention in our sinful lives as possible.
Morning Mailmandan,
Let me bounce a question off you: Do you believe that continuing in faith is required for salvation? That is, if a true believer goes back into willfully living according to the sinful nature, remains in that state and dies in that state, are they still saved? What do you think about the following scriptures? What do they mean to you?:
"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me."
5“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
Just looking to get anothers understanding of the scriptures above in relation to my question.
Thank you!
Let me bounce a question off you: Do you believe that continuing in faith is required for salvation? That is, if a true believer goes back into willfully living according to the sinful nature, remains in that state and dies in that state, are they still saved? What do you think about the following scriptures? What do they mean to you?:
"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me."
5“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
Just looking to get anothers understanding of the scriptures above in relation to my question.
Thank you!
Yes! All Scripture applies to you, but not all Scripture is your doctrine. Do you understand the difference between application and doctrine? God told Jonah to specifically go to Nineveh and specifically preach "yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown." We don't obey God in those instructions. What we do is apply the message spiritually to our lives. Our message is a gospel message about the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and we are to take that gospel, not just to Nineveh, but to the whole world.
There's coming a time where the mark of the beast is a real thing, not just denying the Lord Jesus Christ. During the tribulation the mark is reality. It's a physically thing that separates believers from unbelievers. One literally cannot buy or sell without it. That doctrine does not apply to me...I won't be here. It's for me to learn and understand what God's doing in the future.
There's coming a time where the mark of the beast is a real thing, not just denying the Lord Jesus Christ. During the tribulation the mark is reality. It's a physically thing that separates believers from unbelievers. One literally cannot buy or sell without it. That doctrine does not apply to me...I won't be here. It's for me to learn and understand what God's doing in the future.
