Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
M

MattforJesus

Banned
#3,481
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#3,481
I am saying that Jesus was addressing the saints,and said that if they did not overcome,they would be blotted out of the book of life,and in another place He would remove the candlestick out of its place,and in another place He will fight them with the sword of His mouth,and told them to repent of the falsehood that they had.

I want to know what they have to overcome,that Jesus said they had to repent of doing wrong,and wrong beliefs,or else they would not be right with him.

If Jesus does it all,and there is no responsibility on our part,and sin does not affect our relationship with Christ,what do the saints have to overcome,that Jesus told them to repent,and Jesus said if they do not overcome,then they He will go against them.

What do they have to overcome,because it cannot be ignored that they have to overcome,and Jesus told them to repent of whatever wrong they were doing.
 
L

limey410

Guest
#3,482
#3,482
Sully said:
The misconception is if you argue the case for grace you are automagically transformed into team free for all, sin till the lights go down. How is that the conclusion everyone hyperspaces to? Mind boggling.
Click to expand...
Folks are really afraid of true freedom.
 
W

wsblind

Guest
#3,483
#3,483
Sully said:
The misconception is if you argue the case for grace you are automagically transformed into team free for all, sin till the lights go down. How is that the conclusion everyone hyperspaces to? Mind boggling.
Click to expand...
It is transference arrogance. If the legalist or worker for salvation had freedom..............that is what they would do. Because they don't understand His grace.
 
S

Sully

Guest
#3,484
#3,484
I ask a question and get three stellar answers from wsblind, dc, and limey. My pulse is back to normal.
 
L

limey410

Guest
#3,485
#3,485
Sully said:
I ask a question and get three stellar answers from wsblind, dc, and limey. My pulse is back to normal.
Click to expand...
Mine wasn't quite as stellar, but I get tired of arguing with pompous windbags.....sometimes.
 
W

wsblind

Guest
#3,486
#3,486
Sully said:
I ask a question and get three stellar answers from wsblind, dc, and limey. My pulse is back to normal.
Click to expand...
I am convinced that you could have answered better than any of us. It makes me stroke my beard.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#3,487
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#3,487
Sully said:
The misconception is if you argue the case for grace you are automagically transformed into team free for all, sin till the lights go down. How is that the conclusion everyone hyperspaces to? Mind boggling.
Click to expand...
The law is the gatekeeper. The lawless have no rights. If you miss this you you miss Christ.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#3,488
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#3,488
Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.


The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state - Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin - Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us - Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ - Gal 3:24

The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is how we live now, and the law of liberty in Christ Jesus and the law of love, the law of faith ( the Law is NOT of faith - the just shall live by faith ). The law of Christ - Himself is how we live now.

But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Christians are dead to the Law, been released from the Law and are NOT under the Law. It can't get any plainer than that.

People are free to do whatever they want in relation to the Law - it does not make one righteous nor is it for salvation.

We live now by the law of Christ in us - we live by His life in us - not the law of Moses. Get this wrong and we create a works-based religion that is really just self-righteousness/holiness attempts.

We are replacing Christ Himself for something else - the law of Moses and the irony of it - is that we are actually breaking the very 1st commandment in the Law of Moses.
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

Banned
#3,489
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
#3,489
Grace777x70 said:
Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.
Click to expand...
Nope it wasnt paul who knew the law better than anyone it was God answering pauls questions in communion that showed paul wisdom..

Gods wisdom and not yours or pauls...
 
JIMBO43

JIMBO43

Banned
#3,490
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
#3,490
Deuteronomy 10:12
"Now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require from you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, and to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul,


So Now what does the Lord require from Christians ?

It seems that the lord does not do all the work for you is what i get from this..
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3,492
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#3,492
Removing the candlestick (stirring it away) is indicative of the assembly losing it's authority as a church and has nothing to do with losing salvation....and many simply miss the generic statement about overcoming....it is no different than me saying to another saved person...all who do not overcome will be blotted out.....what many fail to understand is the simple truth that every man, woman and child that would come into existence are written into the book of the living and are only blotted out upon their rejection or failure to exercise FAITH into JESUS.....the bible is clear...it is faith that overcomes everything and God has dealt to EVERY MAN a measure of it (Jesus was without measure) and God would have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, hell was made for the devil and his angels etc....the only ones blotted out are the ones who do not exercise faith and OVERCOME the world......
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3,493
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#3,493
PeterJens said:
The law is the gatekeeper. The lawless have no rights. If you miss this you you miss Christ.
Click to expand...

FALSE....the LAW is our schoolmaster and takes us by the hand, shows we cannot live up to God's standard, condemns the whole world as guilty and points us to the only solution...FAITH into JESUS.....
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3,494
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#3,494
JIMBO43 said:
Nope it wasnt paul who knew the law better than anyone it was God answering pauls questions in communion that showed paul wisdom..

Gods wisdom and not yours or pauls...
Click to expand...
PAUL'S wisdom is GOD'S wisdom....he was taught by direct revelation from JESUS and penned the words of JESUS...wake up...he said outwardly you could not condemn him concerning the LAW and once he WISED UP he embraced grace, mercy and FAITH.......you guys consistently take the cake and you wonder why I call you all cake takers......!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#3,495
#3,495
Sully said:
The misconception is if you argue the case for grace you are automagically transformed into team free for all, sin till the lights go down. How is that the conclusion everyone hyperspaces to? Mind boggling.
Click to expand...
when you water down the law, and excuse your own sinfulness, you have to judge people, who better than the grace people, it sounds godly, and Helps them feel better..

 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#3,496
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#3,496
dcontroversal said:
FALSE....the LAW is our schoolmaster and takes us by the hand, shows we cannot live up to God's standard, condemns the whole world as guilty and points us to the only solution...FAITH into JESUS.....
Click to expand...
I agree.

Paul describes the mindset that thinks they can be righteous by what they do or don't do and Paul uses the keeping of the law as an example of rejecting the righteousness of Christ which is by faith alone or by trying to create and maintain our own by what we do or don't do.

This is the #1 stumbling block that Christ is to the D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness belief system.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Righteousness by faith in Christ's work alone is to be the mindset or belief system of the true Christian life. His life in us will manifest in deeds of righteousness but the horse of Christ's righteousness by faith needs to be in front of the cart.

Get this backwards and we create a self-religion of good works that actually nullify the very grace of God needed for living in this earth.
 
Last edited:
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3,497
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#3,497
wsblind said:
It is transference arrogance. If the legalist or worker for salvation had freedom..............that is what they would do. Because they don't understand His grace.
Click to expand...
1 work, 30 works, 50 works, 1,000,000,000,000 works still equal hell/lake of fire if one does not completely trust into the saving faith of JESUS.....Galatians is as clear as it can be......faith plus works is a FALSE GOSPEL...NO POWER to SAVE and DOUBLE CURSED......end of story!

Titus 3:5
Ephesians 2:8-10
John 3:36
John 3:16
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3,498
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#3,498
eternally-gratefull said:
when you water down the law, and excuse your own sinfulness, you have to judge people, who better than the grace people, it sounds godly, and Helps them feel better..

Click to expand...
The flip side is true as well...When you push works, adherence to the law, self righteousness etc...you water down the blood and by doing so----> equals one that believes and pushes a false gospel with no power to save.....
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#3,499
#3,499
dcontroversal said:
The flip side is true as well...When you push works, adherence to the law, self righteousness etc...you water down the blood and by doing so----> equals one that believes and pushes a false gospel with no power to save.....
Click to expand...
​true but that just PROVES that do not understand the law, if they did they would fall on their knees in repentance, because they would KNOW that same law they push, CONDEMNS them
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3,500
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#3,500
Grace777x70 said:
I agree.

Paul describes the mindset that thinks they can be righteous by what they do or don't do and Paul uses the keeping of the law as an example of rejecting the righteousness of Christ which is by faith alone or by trying to create and maintain our own by what we do or don't do.

This is the #1 stumbling block that Christ is to the D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness belief system.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Righteousness by faith in Christ's work alone is to be the mindset or belief system of the true Christian life. His life in us will manifest in deeds of righteousness but the horse of Christ's righteousness by faith needs to be in front of the cart.

Get this backwards and we create a self-religion of good works that actually nullify the very grace of God needed for living in this earth.
Click to expand...
Verse 4 is so clear....

LAW for righteousness<---THE END OF THIS CONCEPT is FAITH into CHRIST........EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE<----not keep the law or works

He that believes on the SON is having everlasting life<---not keep the law or works
 
You must log in or register to reply here.