Helmet of "Hope of Salvation"

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by notmyown

DiscipleDave, do you mind me asking how long you've lived in your house?

i do not give out personal information unless it is to edify, build up, or exhort another. Tell me why you would like to know that personal information from me.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

notmyown;3036677]oh, well, i understand that, and you're certainly entitled to do just as you wish.

You are most kind. Praise God my health is just fine.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

i was just a little concerned for your health.

 

[DiscipleDave]

If you don't understand it, then you don't understand it.

All it shows is that you have no idea of what Salvation really is. You have a carnal, intellectual, understanding of what salvation is.

Which I pretty much already should have known when you tried to show Gods People that they could lose their salvation.


Its not hoping to put on the helmet of salvation. Its putting on the helmet of the hope of salvation. Its the helmet of the faith in the work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Because faith is hope, right? Just stronger.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


Once again, we are not just hoping this is true. We have faith that it is truth. Do you see the difference?

So you teach (Scriptures does not) that you can't lose your Salvation. Tell me if a persons name is written in the Book of Life, they are SAVED correct? Yes or No answer. If then they are Saved because their name is written in the Book of Life, and yet their name is blotted out of the Book of Life, are you then implying they are still Saved? Contrary to Scriptures?

If you are SAVED now, and can't possibly ever lose it, are you suggesting it is NOT POSSIBLE for you to HATE someone in the future? Are you suggesting it is NOT POSSIBLE that you can have UNFORGIVENESS for another person in the future? Are you suggesting that since you are SAVED Now, and can't ever lose it, that it is NOT POSSIBLE for you to ever DENY Christ?

It is Plainly written that Liars, fornicators, adulterers will NOT enter into Heaven. Are you saying that if a person is SAVED, they CAN'T possibly lie, fornicate, or commit adultery?

i don't care if you think you are Saved, if you continue to Hate someone you are NOT going to Heaven, and it does not matter what you claim with your mouth.

i don't care if you think you are Saved, if you continue to Fornicate you are NOT going to Heaven, and it does not matter what you claim with your mouth.

i don't care if you think you are Saved, if you continue to Lie, your a Liar and you are NOT going to Heaven, and it does not matter what you claim with your mouth.


i don't care if you think you are Saved, if you continue to have unforgiveness toward someone, then the Father in Heaven will NOT forgive you either therefore you are NOT going to Heaven, and it does not matter what you claim with your mouth.

And you can go ahead and accuse me of saying these things, but let the TRUTH be known it is not i that says these things but the Word of God says and plainly teaches these things. So you go ahead and believe OSAS, but the day that determines if a person is Truly Saved or Not Saved is the Day of Judgement when the Book of Life is opened. If your name is there, than and ONLY then Are you SAVED. But if your name was never written in the Book, or if your name has been blotted out of the Book, you are NOT Saved, no matter how much you think you are.

Scriptures plainly teach not to be hearers of the Word only, but to be doers of the Word. Faith is what you believe. But woe to those who believe in Jesus Christ but are not DOERS of the Word of God. Demons believe and OBEY Jesus Christ and they are not SAVED. Woe to those who believe Faith ONLY is going to Saved them, these are branches that HAVE been grafted into the Good Tree, but because they have no fruits, they will be cut off from the Good Tree and burned up.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Is it just me Grandpa or is it very complicated to have a Biblical discussion with DiscipleDave? lol

i teach what Scriptures teach, if i taught you things that come from me, you would easily believe. But since what i teach comes from Scriptures, you find it complicated. i teach nothing more than what Scriptures plainly teach. If you don't think so, then show one thing that i have taught that is contrary to Scriptures. Sure it is contrary to what YOU THINK is the TRUTH, but is NOT contrary to any Scriptures. If so, then reveal it.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

So all these verses say and teach that a person can be PERFECT. So am i to believe you which teach we don't have to be perfect, or believe Scriptures which instructs us to be Perfect and witnesses that there were Perfect people present even during those times?

Verdict. i choose to believe the Word of God which plainly and clearly teaches we Christian can and should be Perfect as all the Scriptures above plainly teach. So it is not i that you disagree with, but Scriptures which teach to be Perfect, is what you disagree with.

By perfect, do you mean presently sinless, 100% of the time or mature and complete? The word comes from telo, end, goal, limit. Do you mean the goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father? The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children.

Absolute perfection, sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time for us will not become a reality until we are present with the Lord, but that is the goal to strive for. Yet teleioi is also used to refer to the maturity of an adult, which is the end or aim to which the child points. Thus it denotes those who have attained the full development of innate powers, in contrast to those who are still in the undeveloped state (children).

The following verses concerning the topic of PERFECT is what i believe 100% Can you say the same?

Mat_5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

2Co_13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Eph_4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Php_3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

God uses His servants to teach against sinning, and we see how they are treated.

Col_1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Col_4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

What? Because perfect means complete, it says above that ye may stand complete and complete in all the will of God. Or does perfect and complete mean separate things, therefore the conjunction of both words.

Jas_2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

WHAT!!! A verse that teaches works is what makes Faith perfect. How will the Faith ONLY people interpret this verse away? This verse plainly teaches that it is works that makes faith perfect. Yet this generation thinks Faith ONLY is enough and works are not needed at all. This verse and what i teach Faith + Works = Perfect Faith (Saved).

Jas_3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

This verse PLAINLY teaches that it is possible for a person to obey the Word of God, and NOT obey his/her sinful flesh. Which i testify that i do this (through the strength and power of Jesus Christ in me) and God is my witness that i lie not.

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
If we say that we are Saved (fellowship with Jesus), and knowingly and willingly commit sin (obey His enemy), we lie, and the do not the TRUTH:

Do i say that or does Scriptures teach that? Scriptures teaches:

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (Did Jesus in you DESTROY the works of the devil in you, or are you still keeping the works of the devil alive in you by obeying the devil, which is your Lord's enemy?) 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (i am Born of God, i do not obey satan. PERIOD) 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. Tell me. if you Knowingly and willingly obey satan and commit sin which you know full well is sinful but you choose to do it anyways, how is that doing Righteousness? i assure you that is not of God but of satan.

Also answer me if you are able to do so. If a person is Saved they are the children of God, Now if a Saved person does NOT Love his brother, Scriptures plainly teaches that a person who does not love his brother is a child of the devil, so then my question is how can a person be BOTH SAVED and a child of the devil? Anyone who claims to be Saved and yet does not love his brother is a child of the devil according to this Holy Inspired by God verse.

1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Woe to those who claim with their mouths they are SAVED, yet they do not love their brother, they can't be BOTH children of God and also the children of devils. Good Trees do NOT produce bad fruits. PERIOD!!! Narrow and difficult is the path that leads to life everlasting, and only a very few will FIND it.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

i have sinned plenty, that has NOTHING to do with how i am living now. i have sinned, i no longer continue to obey satan and live in sin.

So you admit to sinning in the PAST, but NOW, in the PRESENT, do you claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time, continuously?

i have told you already, and ye did not hear: therefore will you fail to hear it again? i have sinned much in the past, i no longer continue to obey satan and commit sins.

Here is one thing that is TRUE. What i teach, i live. You say it is not possible, i live it. i know all things are possible to them that know God. When God told a man and a woman to "Go and sin no more" He was not telling them to do something that was impossible to do, hard and difficult, yes, but not impossible.

Again I ask, are you saying that you PRESENTLY live a sinless, with fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time NOW, continuously? [/quote]

And i will again answer, but will you hear it this time? i have sinned much in the past, i no longer continue to live in sin. i do all things to please Jesus Christ. ALL THINGS. Why? Because i Love Him with ALL my heart, with ALL my Strength, with ALL my mind, with ALL my soul. i would right this second die for Him, or be killed for Him. my Life is not mine to live, but i live it to please Him, my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Why on Earth would i obey His Enemy the devil and commit sin, which would make Jesus sad? If someone who claims they LOVE you chooses to go and obey YOUR ENEMY, would that not make you sad as well? They claim to Love you, but they obey your enemy. Very sad indeed.

Think about this: All i have done is give Scriptures which teach NOT to sin, what have you done? You have taken them and interpreted them to mean something other than that.

Not sinning is what we are to strive for. God cannot compromise His perfect, holy standard. [/quote]

This generation is like unto a person in New York who takes on a quest to walk to California. At the first he believes he is able to do it, or else he would not have agreed to take the quest. But after walking a few states, and many people talk to him saying "You can't do it", "It's not possible", "Your not strong enough to make it" And then thoughts arise in him that it is not very likely he will make it. Tell me, how likely is it that he will make it to California, if he does not believe he is going to?

This generation is no different. They are told that it is impossible to NOT sin, They are told that they will sin every day, they are told that the flesh is weak and therefore will continue to sin, they are told it is impossible to cease from sinning. Therefore how likely will it be that they achieve that goal, if they already have it in their minds they will not achieve it?
All things are possible to them that know and believe God.
IN a like manner God only speaks to those who believe God still speaks to people today. If you do not believe God speaks to people today, His hands are tied from speaking to you, you must first believe that He does, before He will.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

i teach not to obey satan and commit sin, you must believe it is OK to commit sin, because you sure went through a lot of trouble to teach against most of the verses which teach not to sin.

I never said it was OK to commit sin and obey satan. I have been teaching against sinless perfection, not striving not to sin. God not compromising His perfect, holy standard and saying not to sin is one thing and demanding sinless perfect 100% of the time or else is another thing. 1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, (PRESENT TENSE) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

i have not one time, nor ever have taught sinless perfection, nor have i demanded sinless perfection 100% of the time, these things are what is in your own mind which believes i teach.

if i have walked like Jesus in the past month, and have not sinned once during that time, and you ask me if i am sinning, and i tell you that TRUTH, that i do all things to please Jesus Christ, that i do not obey satan but obey only God. These things are TRUE, but because i answer you, you ASSUME that i am teaching sinnless perfection 100% of the time.
Can i say if i will sin tomorrow? i know not what tomorrow holds for me. i know not if i will sin or not sin. What i do know is that i have not sinned TODAY at all. But just because i teach stop obeying satan, does not mean i am teaching sinless perfection doctrine like you are assuming. Now because i teach against sinning, this is what makes you THINK i am teaching sinless perfection.
You may not have sinned all day today, so guess what? TODAY you were most certainly sinless.

What helps me is understanding how addictive sins can be.
An Alcoholic on the wagon, who has one drink will be right back into the mess he/she was in prior to getting on the wagon.
i know if a smoke one cigarrette, that i will most likely start smoking again.
LIKEWISE:
i know if i commit a particular sin again, that i will continue to do that sin over and over again, hence LIVING in sin. Knowing that helps me from committing that sin in the first place.
i live day to day to day to day. i know not what tomorrow holds for me. i know not if i will actually commit a sin tomorrow. So you do error in thinking i teach sinless perfection 100% of the time.
How could i teach against sinning if i continued to live in sin? That would make me a Hypocrite right? How can i try to remove the speck in your eye if my eye is clouded with sin as well? i teach to stop sinning, because that is what i do, i no longer obey satan and commit sins. Is that saying tomorrow i won't sin? No it is not saying that at all, what it is saying is that as of right now, TODAY i no longer continue to live in any kind of sin. And if i endure to the end, and the Book is opened and my name is written therein, i will be SAVED.

Mat_24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Notice it does not say the are SAVED ALREADY, but plainly says it will be in the end they are SAVED. This is why the Apostle Paul called it a race to run, to win the Prize. What this generation fails to understand is that there is ONLY ONE DAY that determines who is and who is not SAVED, and that ONE DAY is Judgment Day, when Christ appears on the Earth and the Book of Life is opened. So you may claim to be SAVED today. But the ONLY day that determines who is actually Saved and who is NOT Saved is when the Book of Life is opened on the Day of the Lord. So just because i claim with my mouth today "i am Saved" Does not mean my name will remain in the Book of Life until Judgment Day, for i know not what tomorrow holds for me. If God decides to test me like He did Job, will i deny Jesus? Will i hate someone? Will i have unforgiveness for another? Will i curse God? i would like to think i would pass the test with flying colors, but what if i don't, then i assure you my name which was written in the Book of Life will be blotted out, and on Judgement Day when the Books are opened my name will NOT be found there, even though TODAY it is written there. People need to wake up and start understanding this TRUTH, or they will remain asleep by the lies of satan.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

Lots of legalists, judaizers and workers attempt to define certain phrases and certain words in a way that defends their theology.

So now we have to fight over definitions and meanings of phrases as well as actual theology.

And then wonder why. And what is behind the thought that someone could lose what God gives. That gets worrisome.

Please answer me this question:

God is the one who writes a persons name in the Book of Life when they get Saved, correct? Yes or No answer.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

How then according to this verse, God takes away that persons part out of the Book of Life, when it was God who put that part in it? Your logic is in error and is contrary to Scriptures.

You ask what is behind the thought that you can lose what God gives, comes from Scriptures.

Didn't God promise to give Moses all the land, but it was taken away from him, was it not?
Didn't God over and over again give rain only to take it away from them?
Didn't God give Israel many things only to take them away from them?
God desires that all would be Saved, are they all Saved?
God calls many, but God only chooses a few. Therefore He chooses not many who were Called.
God gave Lucifer Heaven, and then took it away from him.
God gave Adam and Eve the Garden, then took it away from them.
These are but a mere few that came to the top of my head in a matter of a minute or two. There are hundreds of other examples.

And why would God take something away that He gives? Because they deny His son by obeying the enemy. (SIN).

So the belief that God can take away something that He gives is throughout all of Scriptures. Why do you not understand that?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[SarahFaith]

Is it not written you must become as little children in order to enter into the Kingdom of God? So why does this generation teach you must know Greek and Hebrew in order to come to the TRUTH. How is that not trying to become LEARNED. Did Jesus go to school? Did they not say of Him, "How does He know letters without ever learning them in school?" Were the Disciple learned people or fishermen and tax collectors? But this generation thinks a person must learn Hebrew and Greek in order to understand and come to the TRUTH. Is it not the Holy Spirit of God that teaches Truth of Scriptures? Yes, for that Spirit is called the Spirit of Truth. But what of this generation do they wait patiently for the Holy Ghost to teach them Truths of Scriptures, or do they altogether go to the Hebrew and Greek to learn what the Holy Ghost is not revealing to them? Go to now, and continue to learn Hebrew and Greek through and by your own intellect, Those who are Spiritual seek Truth from God not from methods of men.

As for me, i will continue to believe HOPE means hope, exactly like the word says. Ask a child what the word HOPE means, and you will be better off believing the words of that child then you would be believing the words of the Hebrew and Greek definitions. What then? If a person in this generation reads a verse and they believe what it says, they do not take that verse to the Hebrew and Greek. But it is only when a person of this generation reads a verse they do not agree with what it says, that they go to the Hebrew and Greek to find ANOTHER meaning for the verse, thereby changing the plain simple meaning of the verse to fit into their own doctrine via the Hebrew and Greek.
Trust the Holy Ghost, not doctrines of men.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Matthew 11

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from [the] wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.

26 “Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

 

[mailmandan]

i teach what Scriptures teach, if i taught you things that come from me, you would easily believe. But since what i teach comes from Scriptures, you find it complicated. i teach nothing more than what Scriptures plainly teach.

Yeah right! Sigh. As I already mentioned in the "Not BY Works" thread - There is just no getting through to you at all. I'm tired of listening to your nonsense and I'm also done wasting my time with you. Moving on.

Now I understand why so many people a while back advised me not to waste my time with you.

 

[Grace777x70]

Yeah right! Sigh. As I already mentioned in the "Not BY Works" thread - There is just no getting through to you at all. I'm tired of listening to your nonsense and I'm also done wasting my time with you. Moving on.

Now I understand why so many people a while back advised me not to waste my time with you.

Amen...The gospel is all about what Christ has done for us. Adding our works waters down the gospel to make it a false gospel. We will do good works when we are fed the proper nutrients of the real gospel which is all what Christ has already done. Good works do not make us saved. That is the lie of the false gospel.

 

[miknik5]

1Th_5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Why do you think the Holy Inspired by God Scriptures instructs us to put on the helmet "The HOPE of Salvation"

Why HOPE?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Because it keeps our minds focused on CHRIST who is OUR HOPE

 

[Grandpa]

Please answer me this question:

God is the one who writes a persons name in the Book of Life when they get Saved, correct? Yes or No answer.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

How then according to this verse, God takes away that persons part out of the Book of Life, when it was God who put that part in it? Your logic is in error and is contrary to Scriptures.

Does the bible actually say it is God that puts a persons name in the book of life when they are saved?

Or is it you that says that?

Is it possible that everyone born is automatically in the book of life? Is it possible that only those who don't come to Christ are later blotted out?

Does the bible explicitly say one way or another?

You ask what is behind the thought that you can lose what God gives, comes from Scriptures.

Didn't God promise to give Moses all the land, but it was taken away from him, was it not?
Didn't God over and over again give rain only to take it away from them?
Didn't God give Israel many things only to take them away from them?
God desires that all would be Saved, are they all Saved?
God calls many, but God only chooses a few. Therefore He chooses not many who were Called.
God gave Lucifer Heaven, and then took it away from him.
God gave Adam and Eve the Garden, then took it away from them.
These are but a mere few that came to the top of my head in a matter of a minute or two. There are hundreds of other examples.

And why would God take something away that He gives? Because they deny His son by obeying the enemy. (SIN).

So the belief that God can take away something that He gives is throughout all of Scriptures. Why do you not understand that?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Its a carnal thought and I already know whats behind it.

Moses showed up with Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration, so quite probably, Gods Promise and Gift was not taken away but was given in a different way than he or you had thought. Probably more abundantly than he could ask or imagine.

Rain is Gods Grace. And NO its never taken away.

All the promises to Israel are yes, and amen. None have been taken away nor ever will be. But who is Israel? Gods People.

Romans 11:29 [FONT=&quot]For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

[/FONT]Is the bible wrong? Is it ok for you to re-write in the way that is most convenient for you? In the pride of your own 'understanding'?

How can Romans 11:29 be true in light of all of your "facts" showing that God does in fact take away His Gifts? He must have been talking about something other than what you thought He was... Probably a common theme throughout all of history.

John 6:63 [FONT=&quot]It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

[/FONT]

 

[willybob]

Amen...The gospel is all about what Christ has done for us. Adding our works waters down the gospel to make it a false gospel. We will do good works when we are fed the proper nutrients of the real gospel which is all what Christ has already done. Good works do not make us saved. That is the lie of the false gospel.

Jesus plus no desire to obey Him from heart filled devotion???????????? or the entitlement program of religion/

More magic cleche'.... Jesus plus no desire to obey Him from heart filled devotion, therefore adhering to the entitlement program of religion and lip service? Paul said we are WORKERS TOGETHER with HIM...Yes I will agree that only the blood can forgive past sins, and reconcile one back to Father placing them in a covenant relationship of love in that Jesus established the New Testament/Covenant and provided the way for such forgiveness and mercy, ie "it is finished", and nothing can be added to the conditions of that covenant. But we as good servants MUST crucify the flesh, pick up our cross, and endure to the end, and he that does the SAME shall be saved.