Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

[eternally-gratefull]

The Gospel is the good news of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). The Gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed, a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation or live a sinless, perfect life 100% of the time or else! The Gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen as the Savior of all who believe (trust) in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation.

I do not think certain people get what is going on here.

Christians do not go around telling other Christians they are sinners, They tell people who claim to be Christians, and do not sin, they are still sinners, Or they tell sinless perfection people. they are still sinners, Because they still sin.

or they go around telling non believers,, He I am just as guilty as you are. the only difference is, I was redeemed by the blood of the lamb.. I too am a sinner (I still sin)

if one commits one sin, by mere definition, they are a sinner.

a non sinner, by definition, would be a person who no longer commits sin.

if people want to discuss these defenitions and disagree, that is one thing, but to attack and belittle people just because you have a different defenition. Thats for the birds.

 

[truthhurts]

I do not think certain people get what is going on here.

Christians do not go around telling other Christians they are sinners, They tell people who claim to be Christians, and do not sin, they are still sinners, Or they tell sinless perfection people. they are still sinners, Because they still sin.

or they go around telling non believers,, He I am just as guilty as you are. the only difference is, I was redeemed by the blood of the lamb.. I too am a sinner (I still sin)

if one commits one sin, by mere definition, they are a sinner.

a non sinner, by definition, would be a person who no longer commits sin.

if people want to discuss these defenitions and disagree, that is one thing, but to attack and belittle people just because you have a different defenition. Thats for the birds.

Oh quite the contrary sir, some of us know exactly what is going on here....

Once again, you say things that are not found anywhere in the NT part of the Bible....Paul never greeted the sinners of his Churches he greeted the saints....you cannot form a rebuttal to the WORD, so you then attack messengers and their motives....I would never call you a sinner, I would call you a fellow brother, son, saint, but not a sinner...because your old man died.....you call this semantics but it is so far deeper than that.....

 

[mailmandan]

Where have I espoused good works or rituals...not anywhere...check my posts, see if I have ever said any of those things or that I believe in sinless perfection....I have said quite clearly that no works make you righteous or to obtain or maintain your personal salvation....nor have I stated I am sinless....all I have said is what the Bible says...I am justified and made righteous through Jesus Christ and because of that position, I am no longer a sinner saved by grace...I am a son, and if a son a joint heir now

Very good! Unfortunately, there are those on CC who do espouse good works as the basis for receiving salvation and there are also those who teach sinless perfection.

Totally agree, so does this make me a sinner or a saint!?!? and if I agree with what you stated and still call myself a sinner, what does it mean? It means I have only mental assent and I still deny that the Gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen as the Savior of all who believe (trust) in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation.

In Christ, we are saints, not sinners, which does not mean that we never sin at all though.

 

[mailmandan]

I do not think certain people get what is going on here.

Christians do not go around telling other Christians they are sinners, They tell people who claim to be Christians, and do not sin, they are still sinners, Or they tell sinless perfection people. they are still sinners, Because they still sin.

or they go around telling non believers,, He I am just as guilty as you are. the only difference is, I was redeemed by the blood of the lamb.. I too am a sinner (I still sin)

if one commits one sin, by mere definition, they are a sinner.

a non sinner, by definition, would be a person who no longer commits sin.

if people want to discuss these defenitions and disagree, that is one thing, but to attack and belittle people just because you have a different defenition. Thats for the birds.

I hear certain preachers explain it like this: Positionally in Christ we are not sinners, but practically we still sin (in other words, we are not sinless 100% of the time).

 

[stonesoffire]

I think truthhurts is proclaiming the overcoming life. Rather than saying we still sin...we could say there is a fault that still entangles us but we will overcome.

Eventually, we come to the maturity of Sonship. Isn't this the goal?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I hear certain preachers explain it like this: Positionally in Christ we are not sinners, but practically we still sin (in other words, we are not sinless 100% of the time).

and I think we would all (most, of course workers would say this is excusing sin) believe this to be true..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think truthhurts is proclaiming the overcoming life. Rather than saying we still sin...we could say there is a fault that still entangles us but we will overcome.

Eventually, we come to the maturity of Sonship. Isn't this the goal?

we all again agree with this, so of course, that is our goal.

but i would not say all will make it there, nor would i judge them if they do not.

 

[truthhurts]

In Christ, we are saints, not sinners, which does not mean that we never sin at all though.

Agreed, and as I have said before, as Saints we still and will SIN...but that does not make us SINNERS....

I know it seems like I am playing semantics, but it is far deeper than that....the church loves to keep people bound by calling them sinners saved by grace and that keeps people from understanding their position in Christ and will keep them feeling unworthy of doing anything to advance the kingdom....


For example:
I cannot be used by God to encourage people, because I am a sinner....some think this is a joke, but the church is full of this...The works based Pentecostals are the worst, but the sinner conscious baptists are just as guilty...

 

[stonesoffire]

Scripture does word that as the power to become the Sons of God.

We have all different levels of operating as Sons now. Now we are the Sons and it does not yet appear what we shall be...

My paraphrasing...I cut my spiritual baby teeth on Sonship. Didn't understand it then either.

 

[truthhurts]

we all again agree with this, so of course, that is our goal.

but i would not say all will make it there, nor would i judge them if they do not.

but you see....you become a son automatically at conversion....you hate works based anything, but you are saying that sonship is our goal, which alludes to the fact you have to work at it...you are contradicting yourself by saying this....

Salvation, righteousness and sonship are positions given at conversion....you don't work at being a son....you are a son...hello Prodigal son story.....

Romans 8 says this....read it and heed it and live it....

The fact you state ALL will not make it, admits you are engaged in works based salvation or self righteousness so spare me from ever reading through your rants against it....


Your position is now, not later....you are not perfect at all...you never will be...but that does not divorce the son from the Father...

Position is not gained at the end of the age it is for now and that is all Paul ever preached....

 

[BillG]

Oh quite the contrary sir, some of us know exactly what is going on here....

Once again, you say things that are not found anywhere in the NT part of the Bible....Paul never greeted the sinners of his Churches he greeted the saints....you cannot form a rebuttal to the WORD, so you then attack messengers and their motives....I would never call you a sinner, I would call you a fellow brother, son, saint, but not a sinner...because your old man died.....you call this semantics but it is so far deeper than that.....

yes he greets beleivers as saints.

The Greek for saint is


40 hágios – properly, different (unlike), other("otherness"), holy; for the believer,

40 (hágios) means "likeness of nature with the Lord" because "different from the world."


The fundamental (core) meaning of 40 (hágios) is "different" – thus a temple in the 1st century was hagios ("holy") because different from other buildings (Wm. Barclay). In the NT,

40 /hágios ("holy") has the "technical" meaning "different from the world" because "like the Lord."


[40 (hágios) implies something "set apart" and therefore "different (distinguished/distinct)" – i.e. "other," because special to the Lord.]

The word translated “saint” in the New Testament, hagios, literally means “sacred, physically pure; morally blameless or religious; ceremonially consecrated; holy.” In the context of New Testament passages, saints are those who belong to the body of Christ, saved by grace through faith. In other words, saint is another word for a Christian, a true believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

As saints we are Holy which is why we are called to be Holy.

To me this is why a I think Paul addresses those believers who are Holy and at the same time their sin.

We are saints who do sin.

Paul reminds them of whom they are in Jesus and as a result of their sinning behaviour they are not acting like the child of God they are.

to me in a sense we are children of God acting out of character.

Would I call a fellow believer a sinner if I see them sinning or they came to me for help with a sinful problem.

No I wouldn't, I would remind them of whom they are in Christ that through him we are being sanctified and the Holy Spirit is working in us to conform us to the image of Christ.

Beleivers are saints who will sin.

 

[Grace777x70]

yes he greets beleivers as saints.

The Greek for saint is


40 hágios – properly, different (unlike), other("otherness"), holy; for the believer,

40 (hágios) means "likeness of nature with the Lord" because "different from the world."


The fundamental (core) meaning of 40 (hágios) is "different" – thus a temple in the 1st century was hagios ("holy") because different from other buildings (Wm. Barclay). In the NT,

40 /hágios ("holy") has the "technical" meaning "different from the world" because "like the Lord."


[40 (hágios) implies something "set apart" and therefore "different (distinguished/distinct)" – i.e. "other," because special to the Lord.]

The word translated “saint” in the New Testament, hagios, literally means “sacred, physically pure; morally blameless or religious; ceremonially consecrated; holy.” In the context of New Testament passages, saints are those who belong to the body of Christ, saved by grace through faith. In other words, saint is another word for a Christian, a true believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

As saints we are Holy which is why we are called to be Holy.

To me this is why a I think Paul addresses those believers who are Holy and at the same time their sin.

We are saints who do sin.

Paul reminds them of whom they are in Jesus and as a result of their sinning behaviour they are not acting like the child of God they are.

to me in a sense we are children of God acting out of character.

Would I call a fellow believer a sinner if I see them sinning or they came to me for help with a sinful problem.

No I wouldn't, I would remind them of whom they are in Christ that through him we are being sanctified and the Holy Spirit is working in us to conform us to the image of Christ.

Beleivers are saints who will sin.

The term "saints" when addressing believers is only used 63 times in the New Testament. Do you think that is enough scripture to back up what you say?...

It has nothing to do with our behavior - it is all to do with what Christ has done. This truth drives the "sinless perfection in the flesh" mindset as well as the self-righteousness/holiness crazy.

 

[JIMBO43]

.

Beleivers are saints who will sin.

I think you should of also followed on from that and saod believers are saints who can win.....

 

[truthhurts]

yes he greets beleivers as saints.

The Greek for saint is


40 hágios – properly, different (unlike), other("otherness"), holy; for the believer,

40 (hágios) means "likeness of nature with the Lord" because "different from the world."


The fundamental (core) meaning of 40 (hágios) is "different" – thus a temple in the 1st century was hagios ("holy") because different from other buildings (Wm. Barclay). In the NT,

40 /hágios ("holy") has the "technical" meaning "different from the world" because "like the Lord."


[40 (hágios) implies something "set apart" and therefore "different (distinguished/distinct)" – i.e. "other," because special to the Lord.]

The word translated “saint” in the New Testament, hagios, literally means “sacred, physically pure; morally blameless or religious; ceremonially consecrated; holy.” In the context of New Testament passages, saints are those who belong to the body of Christ, saved by grace through faith. In other words, saint is another word for a Christian, a true believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

As saints we are Holy which is why we are called to be Holy.

To me this is why a I think Paul addresses those believers who are Holy and at the same time their sin.

We are saints who do sin.

Paul reminds them of whom they are in Jesus and as a result of their sinning behaviour they are not acting like the child of God they are.

to me in a sense we are children of God acting out of character.

Would I call a fellow believer a sinner if I see them sinning or they came to me for help with a sinful problem.

No I wouldn't, I would remind them of whom they are in Christ that through him we are being sanctified and the Holy Spirit is working in us to conform us to the image of Christ.

Beleivers are saints who will sin.

Very good truth here my brother.....This is all I have been doing, sadly many have never encountered the truth of identity in Christ....

Romans 6.11
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

 

[BillG]

The term "saints" when addressing believers is only used 63 times in the New Testament. Do you think that is enough scripture to back up what you say?...

It has nothing to do with our behavior - it is all to do with what Christ has done. This truth drives the "sinless perfection in the flesh" mindset as well as the self-righteousness/holiness crazy.

Not sure about your first question I am assuming yes or at least hoping so

I agree that it has nothing to do with our behaviour, what I was trying to address is that I think we are saints and if at times our actions are sinful we are not sinners.

We are children of God who get it wrong but when I do what am I? Still a child of God.

I have 4 teenage kids. When they get it wrong I don't call them sinners, they are still my kids.

if I have misunderstood you post let me know

 

[Grace777x70]

Not sure about your first question I am assuming yes or at least hoping so

I agree that it has nothing to do with our behaviour, what I was trying to address is that I think we are saints and if at times our actions are sinful we are not sinners.

We are children of God who get it wrong but when I do what am I? Still a child of God.

I have 4 teenage kids. When they get it wrong I don't call them sinners, they are still my kids.

if I have misunderstood you post let me know

I was teasing about the fact that scripture calls us saints "only" 63 times. How much more evidence do we need... so yes - I was agreeing with you...

 

[BillG]

I think you should of also followed on from that and saod believers are saints who can win.....

Yes you you are right, my quote about the Holy Spirit conforming us to the image of Christ was me saying that.

Your way of saying was more direct than mine.

 

[BillG]

I was teasing about the fact that scripture calls us saints "only" 63 times. How much more evidence do we need so yes - I was agreeing with you...

I thought you was but just checking.

Now I know you are a teaser does that mean I can repricoate?
I like to tease as well, if I do it means I like you.

 

[Grace777x70]

I thought you was but just checking.

Now I know you are a teaser does that mean I can repricoate?
I like to tease as well, if I do it means I like you.

Lol..I hear ya'

I could go all Old Covenant on you and see if I can get the earth to open up and swallow you or try to "rain down fire from heaven" like John and James tried to do with the Samaritians.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I thought you was but just checking.

Now I know you are a teaser does that mean I can repricoate?
I like to tease as well, if I do it means I like you.

is it not awesome we are children of God. and get to act like kids sometimes?