Why I now believe in Predistination/Election

[Depleted]

I just looked at the TULIP. all points are false

Humans are NOT totally depraved, we are born with the capabilities to do good or do evil. Some of the people who believed this back in the days thought that even unbaptized babies went to hell. CRAZY!

People have the capability to search God, infact He tells them to repent and come to me QUITE OFTEN, and if they cant repent unless He magically grants it, whats the point? its all just one big drama show

Limited atonoment now this is probably the most absurd and wicked out of the TULIP, its amazing someone could of come up with this, 100% LIE no debate. Jesus died for ALL MEN, OF THE WHOLE WORLD. Otherwise the gospel is worthless and you cant even present it honestly to people

As for irresistable grace, numerous times we see in the bible where they "Resisted God's spirit" (acts 7:51 for example)

Perseverence of the saints, eh, this point is kind of useless for a calvinist since their salvation is pre-determined, so its kinda like an extra clause designed to discourage people that if they fail to live right even once then oops maybe im not one of the elect since i didnt persevere this time.

Not totally deprived? So God lied in Gen.6:5?

Not limited atonement? So you are the one who believes God saves every single person ever?

And perseverance? You act like you think we're the ones persevering. I got news for you. I tried not to, but God wouldn't let me go.

Personally having some trouble with you understand TULIP well enough to disagree with it.

 

[Depleted]

I must admit reading this thread has given me a bit of a laugh.. There are a few who for months and months have debated in the strongest terms that salvation is not by works (rightly so), works will not save - it is all of the Christ...
And then turn around and say... I decide not Christ! Oh Christ may have made it possible, but "I" decide.. it is totally my work! Oh, the irony!

Doh! Didn't catch that. Thanks for letting me in on the humor. lol

 

[Depleted]

Amen the only thing God asks humans to do is remain faithful. Have faith in Gods ability to do what he promised and have faith to completely surrender self to the will of God.

Humans have one choice of their own. To live in faith or not.

A true faith would not be prideful because it took repentance to completely be aware of our weak needy fallen nature.

Who gives us faith?

 

[Depleted]

These points are pushed heavily on here. Be cautious and always search for truth

That's okay. They're being pushed by people who don't know TULIP, so try not to count it against them.

 

[Depleted]

LOL...we agree on a lot of things. When we are with the Lord - we'll be 100% in agreement on everything!

Even if we ever totally agreed on theology we will always have GREEN to disagree with.

And, frankly, freshwater fishing is better than saltwater fishing.

(Don't worry, there are plenty of things to disagree about. lol)

 

[Depleted]

I thought you would understand that double election is not Biblical by you view on John 3:18 "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." They are condemned already because they love their evil works or sin rather then the light (Jesus), God's Law had judged them to be condemned. God did not pick them to be sinners, they sin because they are sinners. He desire, wanting, wishing, would like all men to be saved, I Timothy 2:4. He is not willing, not wanting, not desiring, would not have anyone perish, II Peter 3:9.

I Timothy 2:4 "who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."

Jesus' sacrifice doesn't save all men, nor was it intended too. John 3:17 "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." Not could be saved, but you know that.

God's desire is that all would be saved, He's not wanting any to perish. Here the same thing being said in the OT.

Ezekiel 18:23 "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?"

Ezekiel 33:11 "Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?"

God's always desired for men to turn from their wicked ways and turn to Him, but they couldn't/wouldn't.

Psalms 119:155 “Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek Your statutes.”

Psalms 10:3-4 For the wicked boasts of his heart’s desire; he blesses the greedy and renounces the Lord. The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God; God is in none of his thoughts.

But you know that, I used to think that I Timothy and II Peter were talking about the elect, but reading it more changed my mind. Because of the OT Scriptures. I Timothy's context is about prayer, that's why I'm not a Calvinist, because I don't believe in double election.

I don't believe in double-predestination. I think God predestines just once -- some to be his and the rest to their rightful punishment.

(Double-predestination is another "God doesn't make robots/isn't a puppet master claim. It's what people tell us that we believe, but it's not really what we do believe.)

 

[wsblind]

if I am in a storm, and totally unable to save myself.. Yet am too proud to allow someone to save me and die.. I have no one to blame but myself

If in the same situation. I humble myself and allow him to save me,, I can not be proud because I chose to allow someone to save me,, I can have pride in the savior. but not myself..

I will never understand where the thinking comes that people can be proud because they humbled themselves and came to the cross and allowed it to save them. Because they realized, they could not save themselves.

The proud will die, because they continue to try to save self..

Come on EG! Don't you know we are DEAD. We can't grab a life preserver. We are DEAD. We can't acknowledge that we are Sinner's. We are DEAD. We are lifeless corpse's.

We are so DEAD that we can't even sin.

 

[Johnny_B]

Pretty much so. In fact the Jews are the chosen elect. That would be double good. Yet they for the most part CHOOSE the wrong road.

Yes they have, God has blinded them for a time, because the rejected the Lord Jesus. So He did as promised in Deuteronomy 29, read it and you will see that their rejecting the Lord Jesus has brought this judgement on them, but God's not done with them.

It seem that that 70th week has not been fulfilled yet, as in the fulfillment of prophecy and vision or to seal up in 9:24, the prince who is to come 9:27 or the king shall do according to his own will, exalt and magnify above all gods. Not honor the God (as in the Lord) of his fathers, have no desire for women and no regard for any god. Which Titus didn't fulfill, Daniel 11:36-37. We haven't seen everlasting righteousness/the consummation or the regeneration of heaven and earth, Daniel 9:24 & 27. To anoint the Most Holy, Daniel 9:24, which I believe is the New Jerusalem, where we will worship through out eternity, I could be wrong I haven't fully study that yet. There are is still war and desolations haven't happened yet Daniel 9:26, I believe Titus was one of them, with understanding from Daniel, there are more then one abomination of desolation, "till the end of war are desolations determined." We still need to see Jeremiah 30:6-8, the time of Jacob's trouble, "so that none is like it" and "Foreigners shall no longer enslave you"

They weren't set free in 1967, I've been there and the Gentile still trampling Jerusalem, because the time of the Gentiles has not been fulfilled yet. Anyway God Bless Brother.

 

[Johnny_B]

I don't believe in double-predestination. I think God predestines just once -- some to be his and the rest to their rightful punishment.

(Double-predestination is another "God doesn't make robots/isn't a puppet master claim. It's what people tell us that we believe, but it's not really what we do believe.)

I am so sorry for not understanding that you didn't believe in double election, please forgive me for assuming we know what that can mean in it's shorter form. Again I ask if that yo could forgive me, for being such a knuckle head?

 

[Johnny_B]

Try To Watch This Without Crying!

This one makes me cry every time I watch it, it's less than 7 minutes. Let me set it up, a family goes to Papa New Guinea, not knowing the language, how to write it, their customs nada. It took six months to learn and translate the Bible to their language, not all the Bible but what was needed at the time. Once that was done (on going work) he began to teach, for two months he never mentioned the name of Jesus and they had never heard of Jesus. For two months all OT on creation, sin, blood sacrifice, Commandments or the Law, angels, demons and devil. Nothing about Jesus, just laying the foundation of repentance. This one is less than 7 minutes



[video=youtube;5_CcxMb13ZA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_CcxMb13ZA[/video]

 

[Johnny_B]

Acts 13:48 in action. "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." This one is less then 4 minutes.


[video=youtube;f86im0DOFcA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f86im0DOFcA[/video]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I Chose to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for my salvation...........that is how EVERYBODY gets saved. There is no merit in faith. I get saved the same way the other guy gets saved...........believing.

It's akin to boasting about eating to stay alive. Everybody else eats to stay alive........there is no merit and boasting about eating food to stay alive. The merit is in the food.

The merit in faith is CHRIST.

This gets lost because the MAJORITY try to put the merit in their faith(working for salvation/maintaining salvation by their personal faith.)

The thought one can boast of their own faith to me is not understandable.

example.

Guy - Your saved, so how did you get saved.

Girl - I was saved because a man who claimed to be God in the flesh, born of a virgin, Came to earth almost 2000 years ago. Hung on a cross in a form of roman execution, Took the wrath of God in my place, Died, was buried for three days, and rose from the dead.

And he said if I have faith in him, He will forgive me of all my sin based on his death, and give me eternal life, and I am assured I will spend eternity with him.

Guy,, Yeah, what are you drinking? I want some of that!


Yep. That is prety boastfull.. I saved myself (smh)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am of the elect and God might choose you too?. It doesn't get much more arrogant than that.

Thats the part that gets me, In trying to be humble (I can not even chose to have faith, lest I boast) they become more proud..

 

[psalm6819]

Really, what a bunch of elitest crap.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Reread first post. We're not stuck in a storm fearful of death. We're rotting corpses at the bottom of the ocean. "Dead in sin." Not "panicked in sin." Not "tired of sin." Not "passed out in sin." DEAD. So here's the scenario you got caught in a storm and died...

And then you what?
-- Signaled the rescue ship? You can't. Dead men can't signal.

-- Humbled yourself? You can't. Dead don't do humble!

-- Took the gift? You can't. You were dead so can't use your arms.

When Lazarus was raised from the dead, he got up and walked out of his tomb. When God raises us from dead in sin, we got up, thanked him generously, begged his forgiveness, and followed.

I thought you had me on ignore?

That's funny As a corpse I was walking around, I was playing wiht my friends, I was being taken to church by my parents, I was hearing the gospel. I was being shown the gospel by my parents and their friends. I eventually was able (as a corpse in the bottom of the ocean) to walk up and eisle. Be taken by a decon back to a back room, Explained the gospel in detail. And (although I had been praying almost nighty for weeks for God to save me) I finally understood what that meant, And in faiht, I chose out of my free will to call out to God, to ask him to apply his salvation and promise to my life.. To save me, to teach me to walk in his ways, To give me eternal life, based on his sons work.

Yep I was sure not able to do anything.

Sorry, Your story does not fit. we are not corpses we have the ability to chose, to repent, and respond and believe,

Now, please put me back on ignore.. I have been ignoring your stuff for awhile now.. Would like to go back to it.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

God appreciates my sincerity. He understands my questions. His grace is sufficient.

But you on the other hand . . .

Like I said, my pinky toenail is more Christlike than that filth-ridden chamber you call a heart. Have another cigarette, Lynn; all you're doing is giving God the middle finger.

Remember, He wanted more for you than for you to smoke yourself into a cloud of demonic oblivion. But hey, there's no holding back that repugnant hatred of yours, so have at it. Puff, puff, blow.

Wallow till you choke; that'll show 'em.

Why do you hate this woman so much, Utah?
How is it that you think you know her heart?
You keep talking about her hatred while saying hateful things.
And I haven't seen her say hateful things in here to you.
I see the hateful things coming out of your mouth, not hers.
And now you are judging her outwardly, by her smoking of cigarettes?
I wish you would stop doing this harm to yourself.
Did she say something in the past that hurt you...?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Come on EG! Don't you know we are DEAD. We can't grab a life preserver. We are DEAD. We can't acknowledge that we are Sinner's. We are DEAD. We are lifeless corpse's.

We are so DEAD that we can't even sin.

Who was peter talking to? where in 2 situations over 8000 people at least got saved, while others rejected.. How can a corpse have heard peters words and chosen to believe him? while other corpses heard the same message and did not believe..

How can faith come by hearing if your a corpse? A corpse can not hear, so he can not possibly have faith, I will admit, it is prety funny though.. A corpse.. lolol!!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Thats the part that gets me, In trying to be humble (I can not even chose to have faith, lest I boast) they become more proud..

It is proud to say God may give someone faith and repentance just like He did for us? That He might draw and save them just like He did for us? That's not pride to me - it's hope...

 

[Grace777x70]

Even if we ever totally agreed on theology we will always have GREEN to disagree with.

And, frankly, freshwater fishing is better than saltwater fishing.

(Don't worry, there are plenty of things to disagree about. lol)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is proud to say God may give someone faith and repentance just like He did for us? That He might draw and save them just like He did for us? That's not pride to me - it's hope...

you forgot the part he chose you to save and allowed you to believe but he rejected the person standing next to you and no matter how bad he wants to be saved to God will never allow him