"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church"

[Depleted]

[SUB]I could use some biblical help. And, for a change, the offense is right on this forum, so you are a part of it, if you so choose.

A brother charges me with a list of things I am not. At first it was funny because I am so not any of the things he charge me with (except I really am no lady. lol) But the venom and lies continued. So I took it to him in PM, and it still continues.

He will not hear me. He will not hear two sisters. I do not want that to continue to poison the thread another brother in great need started, especially since that brother just had a great change happen in him. He's learning very good things about God, which the brother who attacked me didn't get, and now refuses to get because he's all about attacking me.

So, Step One and Step Two have been taken in Matthew 18:15-20, and since this is happening on CC, on this forum, you are the church. You are Step Three! I ask for your help in this problem because he's not listening.

And, please don't take it to the other thread. Keep it here. Here's the thread it happened on -- [/SUB]http://christianchat.com/christian-family-forum/150504-whats-point-everything-selfish-7.html

[SUB]Here's the scripture I'm referring to for your help:
[/SUB]15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses.17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.19 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”[SUB]

I'm asking for restoration of a brother and restoration for who I really am as opposed to who he thinks I am.

Thank you.


[/SUB]

 

[preacher4truth]

Sister, CC isn't a church and has no authority to do Matthew 18.

But I do get what you're wanting to do, and that is to have reconciliation and restoration. That is a good thing! But some will never reconcile, ever, no matter what you do. As for me, I'd just do Romans 16:17 and move on for now. Maybe this person will come around.

 

[Depleted]

I sure hope so, but meanwhile he's spewing hatred to people who already feel hated. Is that to be the foundation that is CC.

(And, yes, this is church. "Where two or three are gathered" church.)

 

[Willie-T]

I assume you are applying this verse, also?

Matthew 18:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

 

[preacher4truth]

I sure hope so, but meanwhile he's spewing hatred to people who already feel hated. Is that to be the foundation that is CC.

(And, yes, this is church. "Where two or three are gathered" church.)

No, sister, that isn't the sense of the passage. 2 or 3 gathering does not make a church. The context is of those, who, part of a local church are gathered in church discipline, and of Christ being there in the midst of that literal church. It doesn't mean if 2 or 3 get together they make a local church.

But I do hope you all reconcile.

 

[1ofthem]

Oh, the irony...

Seems there are some who think they are able to say whatever they want to others, but get offended and feel attacked if someone treats them the same way they are treating others.

 

[Willie-T]

Oh, the irony...

Seems there are some who think they are able to say whatever they want to others, but get offended and feel attacked if someone treats them the same way they are treating others.

Girl, you sure know how to cut right to the heart of things. LOL

 

[1ofthem]

Girl, you sure know how to cut right to the heart of things. LOL

Yep... It is what it is. That's just how it goes, I guess..Reaping what you sowed and what not...lol

 

[Depleted]

I assume you are applying this verse, also?

Matthew 18:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

I think it was clear at which point in Matt. 18 I'm at.

 

[Depleted]

Oh, the irony...

Seems there are some who think they are able to say whatever they want to others, but get offended and feel attacked if someone treats them the same way they are treating others.

No irony with you. You stay the same.

But I will give this. I don't like liars, so I'm getting help.

You?

 

[Willie-T]

I assume you are applying this verse, also?

Matthew 18:21-22 King James Version (KJV)

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

I think it was clear at which point in Matt. 18 I'm at.

Then you don't feel Jesus meant that forgiveness should be one of our hallmarks? You think, instead, He meant to hang on for 490 times, then on the 491st, break loose and give 'em all Hell?

 

[blue_ladybug]

I'd like to give them all heck sometimes.. just saying..

Then you don't feel Jesus meant that forgiveness should be one of our hallmarks? You think, instead, He meant to hang on for 490 times, then on the 491st, break loose and give 'em all Hell?

 

[1ofthem]

No irony with you. You stay the same.

But I will give this. I don't like liars, so I'm getting help.

You?

LOL...This is just too funny.

Here's a little piece of advice, sweetheart...If you can dish it out, then you need to learn to take it.

 

[Willie-T]

I'd like to give them all heck sometimes.. just saying..

We all would, I'm sure. But somewhere along the line we probably need to start trying to remember what Jesus said was the way to live.

 

[Depleted]

Then you don't feel Jesus meant that forgiveness should be one of our hallmarks? You think, instead, He meant to hang on for 490 times, then on the 491st, break loose and give 'em all Hell?

So, all those "theys" you aren't are forgiven by you before or after you lambaste them? Just trying to figure out what you are trying to teach me.

As for me, I think there has to be some point of talking it out before forgiveness comes. Can't talk it out, don't know how to forgive.

You? You seem to go with, "Never my problem, so it's on you." Which you've just done on this post too, so exactly what am I supposed to learn from you? How many times today have you forgive me? How about dozens of other "theys" you talk about? Today alone, it looks like you need to forgive a few "witch hunters." So, please, Willie. You want to clarify how YOU do this?

 

[BillG]

Where there is an offence whether committed by or committed to, then it needs to be dealt with.
This is done by seeking reconciliation and hopefully restoration.

Being humble to admit I may have done something wrong and being humble enough to forgive.

I think there are 3 levels of forgiveness.

Jesus demonstrated two and offered the third.

UNILATERAL FORGIVENESS - Done by one side only

When Jesus was on the cross, those crucifying him were not repentant.
Jesus prays "Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing"
This type of forgiveness is choosing to bear the pain of the offence without being occupied with the offender.
Accepting the pain as our own burden as such.
But we can remove ourselves from the situation/person who is not interested in reconciliation.


In unilateral forgiveness, the offended releases all bitterness, blame and ill will, but does not place themselves in a position to be hurt by that person in that way again. It does not mean that you have to trust the person, that the relationship is, or can be, restored, or that you place yourself into a vulnerable position with the person

BILATERAL FORGIVENSS - complete forgiveness

We repent of our sins to Jesus and we receive complete forgiveness from Jesus. Our relationship is restored.

LIVING FORGIVENESS

Seeking forgiveness from God and seeking forgiveness from those we have offended, if they are still around to ask for forgivness.

UNILATERAL FORGIVNESS

In many incidents, offenders do not realize how much their actions hurt. They may not realize that they hurt us at all. They may find justification in protecting their own feelings or interest. Or they may act out of a misguided sense of justice or justification. Or, they simply may not care.

In unilateral forgiveness, the offended releases all bitterness, blame and ill will.

I have no idea what has caused the situation you are in to arise.

Maybe, just maybe something you said irked the person you said it to. To the extent they felt offended and has now put up a barrier and is responding as a wounded animal.

I have no idea if you have said sorry for any offense you may have caused yet they have rejected it and if they have rejected it you have put up a barrier.

The problem with virtual communication is that we do not actually get to know people.
Everything on this site that we read are just words, we can only interpret the words we read.

However if sat round a table and we speak the words, emotional responses and facial responses can change the direction.


Willie-T makes a good point.

Do we satisfy 70*70 but when it gets to 70*70+1 break loose and give em all hell.

We all need to try to reconcile, we need to do so by asking ourselves if we feel some one reacts to us as a wounded animal and as the. have i said something that has offended you. Give them the chance to respond. Then ask for wisdom from God how to deal with it.

[h=1]To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you.”[/h]
Just my limited thoughts

 

[BillG]

We all would, I'm sure. But somewhere along the line we probably need to start trying to remember what Jesus said was the way to live.

Luke 6:31
And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise.

 

[Willie-T]

So, all those "theys" you aren't are forgiven by you before or after you lambaste them? Just trying to figure out what you are trying to teach me.

As for me, I think there has to be some point of talking it out before forgiveness comes. Can't talk it out, don't know how to forgive.

You? You seem to go with, "Never my problem, so it's on you." Which you've just done on this post too, so exactly what am I supposed to learn from you? How many times today have you forgive me? How about dozens of other "theys" you talk about? Today alone, it looks like you need to forgive a few "witch hunters." So, please, Willie. You want to clarify how YOU do this?

I'm just saying to admit that you, just like me and the rest of us, blow it and do things we don't want to do. Trying to say that you are following the Bible, and justifying a lack of control in wanting retaliation through vindictive ranting by claiming you are being "Biblical", is a little much to attempt to feed people on the forum as you go off on this guy.

You got mad. You figure you are good at putting people down with your writing.... and that is simply what you are resorting to.

No point trying to hide it. We all do it in some form or another.

 

[BillG]

As for me, I think there has to be some point of talking it out before forgiveness comes. Can't talk it out, don't know how to forgive.

To a certain extent I agree with you but only to the extent that a in pass has been reached and it is totally apparent.
Thats when it can be discussed.

I think we need to be careful going to some one and say you have offended me, and they had no idea they had.
We may have been offended because of stuff we haven't forgiven of others.

A very simple example

Don't be stupid, do you not realise that God loves you (good intentions with such words)

Now the person you said that to may have heard the following from their father/mother

Your stupid, you failed your exams, you will never amount to anything.

Now if we knew the person personally we would probably get to know them and see the reaction on a personal basis.

We don't see the personal on the virtual.

we need to combine the two.

See the text, see if something about the text is contrary to what God would say. Ask the question "Why do you feel this way"
Wait for the repsonse (reassure it's ok to be honest)

 

[tourist]

I sure hope so, but meanwhile he's spewing hatred to people who already feel hated. Is that to be the foundation that is CC.

(And, yes, this is church. "Where two or three are gathered" church.)

I believe that it is a church too based on what you have quoted.