Give us these kind of men

[Magenta]

Romans 1-3 contains the message that God is Holy and people are sinners. our dilemma. our indictment.

Romans (well, the end of chapter 3 and) 4-11 explain how God saves those who believe in Christ.

Romans 12-16 tell the believers how they are now to live in light of so great a salvation.

that's the whole Gospel, right? before the Good News, it's bad news, and we must get the bad news about ourselves.

Amen. My apologies for editing to just this part, but it is true that we get the bad news through conviction of the Holy Spirit of God, and repentance is in fact -at least in part- agreeing with God about our sinful condition before His holy just and righteous ways. How can anyone call themselves a Christian if they cannot agree with Jesus Christ on something as basic as, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

 

[Magenta]

What was the name of the individual Paul was talking about? And what was the result of this man's sin? Was this man preaching a false gospel, and didn't another power inflict judgement on his body but not his soul?

I am pretty sure they would have known to whom he was referring. What would his name mean to us?

 

[psalm6819]

Y'all can have those men, the self appointed accusers of the brethren. Holy Spirit will teach the rest of us.
We know His voice....

 

[Depleted]

I believe in Lordship salvation.

Before you can be born again, you have to recognize that you are a sinner in need of a savior.

You have to know that you are a dead man walking and without God, there is nothing you can do that is good or worthy of praise.

I like John MacArthur, at least most of what I have read so far.

However, his critics often misrepresent his views.

7 has posted the beginning of a long article. I admit it is long, but it's worth reading the whole thing. (She linked to it at "Source" in her post.) Please read it. It explains what is wrong with Lordship. And I ask this as a friend who got stuck with the aftereffects of its father teaching "discipleship." It's an off-shoot of that, and it is scary as that.

In case you're forgetting who said what, I'm the person who told you why "discipleship" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I really am being conservative even in describing it. Many of the people I've renewed friendships with after 30 years were right smack in the middle of that then, and are still suffering the consequences. They were conned, and because of that son, they still don't know the real God. They've chosen multiple paths to stay religious, but that's all it is -- religious.

I could cry every time I think of them. Please be careful. Because I don't want you to end up being merely religious too.

 

[PennEd]

I am pretty sure they would have known to whom he was referring. What would his name mean to us?

Agreed sister. Isn't it interesting that Paul didn't name him so as to be derided through history?

 

[psalm6819]

7 has posted the beginning of a long article. I admit it is long, but it's worth reading the whole thing. (She linked to it at "Source" in her post.) Please read it. It explains what is wrong with Lordship. And I ask this as a friend who got stuck with the aftereffects of its father teaching "discipleship." It's an off-shoot of that, and it is scary as that.

In case you're forgetting who said what, I'm the person who told you why "discipleship" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I really am being conservative even in describing it. Many of the people I've renewed friendships with after 30 years were right smack in the middle of that then, and are still suffering the consequences. They were conned, and because of that son, they still don't know the real God. They've chosen multiple paths to stay religious, but that's all it is -- religious.

I could cry every time I think of them. Please be careful. Because I don't want you to end up being merely religious too.

Why bother? If they are "the elect" and have been "chosen" it foes not matter, right?

 

[Depleted]

I don't watch Joel Osteen, not my cup of tea. But you know, maybe the guy got cold feet when asked the question. Maybe the guy just really didn't know what to say. Joel is a motivational speaker and when someone is use to speaking a certain way maybe it is like muscle memory and he just couldn't break free from what he normally does.

We don't know Joel's heart at all. Granted he says some off the wall things sometimes and so does his wife. You know what, I think we all can say the same thing. There are so many things that goes on in our lives that we seem to always want to attack the other guy instead of sitting down and looking inward.

If someone has an issue with Joel then I say you pray about it asking for guidance and fast and pray for the guy. If he bothers you that much that is the least you could do for him if you don't agree with him.

Joel is a motivational speaker. I'd have no problems with that if he didn't bill himself as "Christian Pastor."

And cold feet? Two problems I see there:
1. A man who makes big bucks talking to masses of people as well as individuals through interviews, has cold feet? Even if that is so the first time, (which I'm not buying), wouldn't he have thought out the HUGE mistake he made the first time and plot out how to answer the next time? That post WAS the next time. AND that "HUGE mistake" is the only thing he does EVERY time.

2. He's supposed to be a Christian Pastor! That's an answer someone who has been a Christian for two days can answer. If we don't expect our pastors to get Christianity 101, who do we expect to know it? Any of it!

 

[Magenta]

Agreed sister. Isn't it interesting that Paul didn't name him so as to be derided through history?

He may have had a common name that would have fallen into disuse due to the association with such immorality. Jesus tells us it is not our job to weed the garden. We proclaim the good news, and allow people with eyes to see and ears to hear to see and hear the gospel. If they lack the discernment to do that, our raising the volume over the issue will do little but cause them to plug their ears.

 

[BeyondET]

Swing those hammers around and around, nail those false teachers to the ground, left, left, left right left...
[video=youtube;vxmmcnlRnUc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxmmcnlRnUc[/video]
Ahh good message Joel...

 

[notmyown]

hey, Lynn, we're Cold War brats. lol

remember "Trust, yet verify" ?

well, perhaps verify before deciding, too. just because someone says a person teaches "Lordship Salvation" don't necessarily make it so. i had to hear Osteen for myself before i decided anything about him, and not just a youtube snippet.

i'm so sad, i'm out.

 

[Stephen63]

Hey Ariel,

I think you've touched on something here that is an issue with many Christians. The idea that God is too busy with the BIG problems of our lives and world to bother Him with what WE think are light or small issues. Therefore WE need to step in and help Him out.

Why can't the Truth of the Gospel stand on it's own? Why does it need our help to point out what ISN'T the Truth? Again, Paul went after false DOCTRINES not individuals. In Colossians for instance. He laid out the false gnostic gospel and kept hammering away that Christ is sufficient. Addressing the brethren with gentleness and love. Even those who never saw his face.

Agreed sister. Isn't it interesting that Paul didn't name him so as to be derided through history?

1 Timothy 1:20​

New American Standard Bible
Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

2Tim 2:14Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers. 15Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 16But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, 17and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some. 19Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness.”

3John 1:9I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say. 10For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us with wicked words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brethren, either, and he forbids those who desire to do so and puts them out of the church.

 

[preacher4truth]

1 Timothy 1:20​

New American Standard Bible
Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

2Tim 2:14Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers. 15Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 16But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, 17and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some. 19Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness.”

3John 1:9I wrote something to the church; but Diotrephes, who loves to be first among them, does not accept what we say. 10For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us with wicked words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brethren, either, and he forbids those who desire to do so and puts them out of the church.

Good stuff. You know what part of the trouble is Stephen63? These that see a problem with addressing others by name, and by teaching has been the way since truth has been proclaimed, and they just will not submit to the authority of Scripture and are, as you can see, arguing against Scripture, and attempting to say "Has God said?" by pitting other portions against it. They also go as far as to cast doubt on what is clear.

Imagine if you will, that God obeyed their pacifism and never told us about Satan, because you know, that wouldn't be nice. Now we have folks calling others names, lying about them, rebuking them, reproving them (something they're against if it exposes their favorite heretic, but for if it is used to protect him) for pointing out his ministers who transform themselves into ministers of light - 2 Corinthians 11:14.

What I gather is that some think the Gospel means speaking things into being, living in mansions, 6 figure salaries for all if they "believe", never being ill, always being healthy, feeling really really good about self, and seeking things for self constantly ("lovers of self", what Paul warned us about in 2 Timothy 3). It's what God gives that they want, not God Himself. And that my friend is a false gospel from the pit of hell - Galatians 1:8-10.

 

[AllenW]

Steve Lawson is great. have you seen his "Doctrines of Grace in the Book of John" series?

it's quite good!

Does he bad mouth John too?
That seems to be his specialty.
Make fun of people and get a lot of laughs and make a ton of money doing it.
The new Christianity.
And there seems to be a lot of followers on this forum as well.

 

[AllenW]

I've already watched that in the past, and Dr. Lawson nailed him for the heretic that he is.

How about you?
Are you a better man than Joel Osteen?

 

[BeyondET]

Good stuff. You know what part of the trouble is Stephen63? These that see a problem with addressing others by name, and by teaching has been the way since truth has been proclaimed, and they just will not submit to the authority of Scripture and are, as you can see, arguing against Scripture, and attempting to say "Has God said?" by pitting other portions against it. They also go as far as to cast doubt on what is clear.

Imagine if you will, that God obeyed their pacifism and never told us about Satan, because you know, that wouldn't be nice. Now we have folks calling others names, lying about them, rebuking them, reproving them (something they're against if it exposes their favorite heretic, but for if it is used to protect him) for pointing out his ministers who transform themselves into ministers of light - 2 Corinthians 11:14.

What I gather is that some think the Gospel means speaking things into being, living in mansions, 6 figure salaries for all if they "believe", never being ill, always being healthy, feeling really really good about self, and seeking things for self constantly ("lovers of self", what Paul warned us about in 2 Timothy 3). It's what God gives that they want, not God Himself. And that my friend is a false gospel from the pit of hell - Galatians 1:8-10.

Hmm, interesting though I haven't seen anything posted as to imply Lovers of self? not even in the video posted. though dislikers of others is a whole other story.. lol

 

[tourist]

How about you?
Are you a better man than Joel Osteen?

I'm certainly not and have fallen short many times.

 

[AllenW]

Nope, he, Steven Lawson is preaching God's truth.

The content of the video is encouraging, it practices 2 Timothy 3 and 4 of reproving and rebuking, something people who can't handle sound doctrine loathe, and is good content. If you can't handle exposing false teachers, false teachings, and following Scriptural instruction, then don't read my threads because they will offend you.

And now you are a self-proclaimed man of truth.
Interesting.....

 

[preacher4truth]

Hmm, interesting though I haven't seen anything posted as to imply Lovers of self? not even in the video posted. though dislikers of others is a whole other story.. lol

Then you're not listening, Osteen's message, books, teachings are about you, self, covetousness. If you can't see that, well, I don't know what else to tell you.

Then onto your callow false accusation about not liking others. Here's what it really is, I love the truth, and I hate the false gospels.

 

[preacher4truth]

How about you?
Are you a better man than Joel Osteen?

God will sort that out. In the mean time I'll be exposing heresy and warning God's sheep. Certainly the goats won't like that and will chime in.

 

[BeyondET]

Then you're not listening, Osteen's message, books, teachings are about you, self, covetousness. If you can't see that, well, I don't know what else to tell you.

Then onto your callow false accusation about not liking others. Here's what it really is, I love the truth, and I hate the false gospels.

O it's about me huh... then I must be a false teacher in your eyes,, and you hate me as well??