Kenneth Hagin and the prosperity gospel

[Ariel82]

That's where you fail oft in thinking others are making statements they've not made. For instance, the accusation that many on here love sin and are defending their sin.

As stated in the past to make that determination concerning one being lost is above my pay grade. Yet, it is noted that you believe it is not above your pay grade to determine several on this forum as lost.

You know he claims he doesn't call people lost, though I admit his words often imply it.

Just fyi

I typically call folks out if they state falsehoods when I see them.

I don't read all threads so, it is what it is,

Neither of you claim to judge folks, but both accuse the other of doing so.

 

[Ariel82]

People need to try to be calm(hard sometimes). I was in a forum once where this man was very knowledgeable about the bible and he had a theory about Revelation. We got along just find until one day I disagreed with him about a small part of his theory and I respectfully pointed out why. Well, the man went totally insane and begin to call me names, I learned later that he always reacted that way with anyone who disagreed with him in any way. Later we had a discussion on being born again, and guess what, he was not even saved! He really knew the bible and liked to discuss it(as long as no one disagreed with him) and yet he was not even saved. I am just trying to encourage Christians to remember that not all those on Christian forums have the Spirit of Christ.

And I would like to remind people that God said love your enemies.

 

[PeterJens]

That's where you fail oft in thinking others are making statements they've not made. For instance, the accusation that many on here love sin and are defending their sin.

As stated in the past to make that determination concerning one being lost is above my pay grade. Yet, it is noted that you believe it is not above your pay grade to determine several on this forum as lost.

Again I have never said people love to sin.
What I have said is people talk about habitual behaviour they call sinful, while neither
repenting of it, and saying it will stop. If it sent them to hell would they have this casual
attitude. How would you describe a heroin addict telling you how they continued to take
heroin, and how when questioned said they did this each day without fail. Would you say
they are interested in giving up, or are still slaves to the behaviour?

So this is not an accusation, it is stating the reality of testimony after testimony.

You then slip into are people lost or not. And please tell me who you say I am claiming are
lost? I am all ears as I have never said this.

I do find it disturbing you cannot take on board this kind of accusation is wrong.

 

[Stephen63]

2 Tim. 3:2-3 - "malicious gossips" and "revilers which are slanderers"

Revilers - Insulting, abusive, slanderous speech is more to the point.

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Alpha-Gamma.


Are malicious gossipers and slanders with insulting and abusive speech a sign of the last days belief system?....really? Do we have any evidence of this being true? Are some doing this to others in the body of Christ? Are some biting and devouring each other?...selah...

Yep..... calling people heretic hunters, calling people who make solid statements malicious, backbiting, "works- salvationists", etc.....

Galatians 5:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

Let's endeavor to learn how to walk by the Spirit so that others can see Christ in us. We are living epistles to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the true nature of the love and grace of our loving Father and Lord to them.

I'd say let's walk in the Spirit so that our teaching is pure & not selfish. (your turn)

 

[PeterJens]

You know he claims he doesn't call people lost, though I admit his words often imply it.

Ariel - I am sorry. If someone comes in and says I am possessed of a demonic spirit,
have never known Christ, and do not have any biblical knowledge, it is not unreasonable
to suggest their relationship with God is quite different to mine.

We have to get real about being one in Christ. I cannot be one in Christ with someone
who wants me to go away, never return, never share and take no part in christian forums.
By their own declaration they are my enemy, and if I know Christ and share His word they
are enemies of Christ. Would a saved person fall into this situation, for no good reason?

Now I do know many unstable people who could easily do this, and it has nothing to do with
faith, they are just nuts. I have accused people of being nuts before now because nothing
in their position makes sense other than just being beligerent accusers, but without any foundations.

 

[Ariel82]

well that's it then

there are 2 on this thread who consider themselves teachers

both are rude and nasty

both have been spoken to kindly by quite a few people and they continue just the same

sorry, but scripture does say to mark those who do this sort of thing

they are eating at a garbage dump, not the Lord's table. I cannot at all leave God's presence without knowing that I depend on Him for even being kind to others. I don't know, maybe that is how He wants it.

I absolutely would have no problem if they would stop their trash talk and post as if the rest of the human beings in this forum actually mattered

I just do not even address them, however I see no point in overlooking the mess either.

you know, respectfully, I am sure most of us pray here and I pray about how to deal with this sort of thing and honestly I have to guard my heart. and I am not an exception

the best is to ignore them as their purpose is not to grow in Christ and if someone wants to call that judgmental then please go right ahead

I've been at this Christianity thing a long time and Christians need to act redeemed and not just speak words

without Christ I can be very unloving because I have about lost patience with the human race, but I know God's heart grieves over His creation and I want His heart and He knows I do

if I were giving a Bible study, I would ask these people to leave and come back when they have a repentant heart and I believe that would be biblical

there are consequences to behavior and sometimes it helps when the bill is due

I don't own the forum nor moderate and it seems to be above the ability of certain people to moderate themselves

I agree with your posts because sometimes I have to ignore people.

My flesh wants to fight and call names and defend my righteous.

On my own I would be selfish and mean,but God tells me how I should be and only by his power is it possible.

If this was real life bible study or small group, I would have expected the leader of the group to correct their behavior or ask them to leave or have done so if I was leading.


However i am not leading, this is not a bible study or small group.

For me it's more like a coffee house or that place in Athens Paul preached at.

People present their beliefs and folks debate over it.

I just know if you don't display the fruits of the spirit and heavenly wisdom, why should people listen to your rebuke or judgement on spiritual matters?

 

[Stephen63]

yeah?

and?

you think words do not have consequences?

yet Jesus said we will give an account of our words. that kinda unsettles me because I really do not have any excuses for my abuse of the English language at the expense of others.

you use harsh and ugly ways of communication and most people do have you on ignore by now or just do not even respond and you seem to get uglier and more abusive, not giving a hoot how much you may hurt others, insult others and destroy threads

you have created an atmosphere in this forum wherever you go with your words

no. Jesus did not do that and neither did any other godly human being who respects the fact that God is the final judge

if you changed the way you act, people would be friendlier and probably even be more willing to listen to what you have to say

as it is, most people consider you a big mouth bully with no class and you can quote me

the above is a very simplified version of how our words (which stem from our thoughts and attitudes) work to create reality in our life

I expect no reasonable response from you as you have proven you get your jollies from acting like someone who never met Christ and yet wants to tell everyone else all about

if fruit in the life of a Christian means anything to you at all, you need to allow God to prune your branches because whatever it is you are growing, it is not Christ in you

I don't consider you worth speaking to at this point, but for the sake of personal responsibility I'm making this post

you are as sounding gongs and clanging symbols and simply a rude distraction as you contribute nothing that anyone can learn from other than to avoid you

I don't care about your response as you do not seem able to discuss anything without going ape

Ooooooo.....touchy, aren't we?

you really like Hagin, don't you?

I see your post as evidence that I must be making some inroads here, otherwise you'd just ignore me like others say they do.

 

[Ariel82]

Ariel - I am sorry. If someone comes in and says I am possessed of a demonic spirit,
have never known Christ, and do not have any biblical knowledge, it is not unreasonable
to suggest their relationship with God is quite different to mine.

Yes it's unreasonable to say if you call them the same names.

Did you read my post about false teachers?

 

[Stephen63]

honestly

where do people find the time to actually become more Christlike when they are so busy calling everyone else names and insulting and berating people who in all likelihood, have hearts after God

I am far more concerned that my own heart is right with God then getting on here and creating an atmosphere that is devilish and evil

do you people do that in church as well? do you interrupt the pastor/elder or whoever every time you have what you think is enlightenment that they have said something that you qualify as false?

you think you are strong in the Lord, but you are actually unyielding and hard hearted. You think you are doing God a favor, but if we want to actually see God and not YOUR version of Him, we look to Jesus.

you sow seeds of discord and use, yes USE, God's name to create fear and doubt

you receive nothing but expect everyone else to receive from you

prideful, arrogant and just obnoxious best describes how you behave

your judgments are false, not righteous and you do not have the love it would take to reach anyone which is why you find yourselves isolated and angry

whatever

Ouch..... I'd be hurting if that was true, lol.

It's nice to know you don't do stuff like that.

 

[Ariel82]

Ooooooo.....touchy, aren't we?

you really like Hagin, don't you?

I see your post as evidence that I must be making some inroads here, otherwise you'd just ignore me like others say they do.

Nope she doesn't like Hagin. She just really dislikes you.

Personally I am glad to say God has helped me see everyone in a different light and I currently don't have anyone on ignore.

Don't know how long that will last, but its really nice right now.

 

[Stephen63]

Paul Crouch would vehemently defend WOF people and some others. I think that Crouch was a decent sort of guy who took what others said as attacks against good Christian people. I liked Paul Crouch, but he was wrong in that he allowed himself to believe what he wanted to be true rather then to diligently study the word of God and honestly compare some of what WOF taught with the word of God. My point is that, when false things are taught as if such things are true, then Christians should take an open stand against those things even if it causes strife. Jesus could have avoided much strife and anger against Himself just by trying to conform rather then to tell the blunt truth. We are called to first tell the truth...and then to try to get along with folks.

Amen.

(You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to samuel23 again.)

 

[PeterJens]

The power of life and death, in the hands of Gods people.

"If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
John 20:23

Let us get serious about who we are in Christ. If Christ anoints us as his people,
and some person decides to set themselves up as an enemy of us, Christ is happy
for us to not forgive their sins, and they will be judged by the Lord on this basis.

I used to wonder about these verses, but after meeting people who decide for their
own reasons to follow Korah's rebellion, then they will also risk the authority given to
the Lords people. In the Lord nothing is ever neutral. If we stand against the Lords
anointed we will stand under judgement as if we stood against Christ himself.

This has always been part of the church because part of society is this tendency to
rebel even when there is no real justification, but some will rise up anyway for their
own reasons.

 

[Grace777x70]

Someone makes a statement like - " Trying to do our own self-righteousness is really a works-salvationists" belief system and mindset." or "People that bite and devour each other publicly with malice and slander are causing strife and division."

If people then "identity" with that statement and are offended by it - that is not calling the person publicly by name. That could be their own conscience bearing witness with it.

There is a difference between speaking things in general terms and publicly insulting people directly with slander and malice.

 

[Ariel82]

Yep..... calling people heretic hunters, calling people who make solid statements malicious, backbiting, "works- salvationists", etc.....

I'd say let's walk in the Spirit so that our teaching is pure & not selfish. (your turn)

You could still be a little gentler in your approach.

Ever hear the phrase "hate the sin, not the sinner"?

 

[PeterJens]

Yes it's unreasonable to say if you call them the same names.

Did you read my post about false teachers?

Ariel I did read your post. My approach to all contributors, is unless I have a reason
to believe something against them they are brothers and sisters in Christ.
And I avoid calling people names. This did spin a little out of control in the past with
one contributor, but then it all went crazy. As far as p4t I have no clue what he really
believes, he is just aggressive to almost everyone. And knowing this forum, I will be blamed
for others posts which I have neither read or posted, lol

 

[samuel23]

I never hated a sinner, just felt sorry for them, one foot in hell and the other on a banana peel.

 

[Ariel82]

Ouch..... I'd be hurting if that was true, lol.

It's nice to know you don't do stuff like that.

Now you are just poking at her to see if she will growl or bite....do all boys do this or is it just annoying brothers?

 

[Ariel82]

. And knowing this forum, I will be blamed
for others posts which I have neither read or posted, lol

Nope...my thread, I get the blame.

Not too worried about it though, gonna lay it at the foot of the cross in prayer.

 

[Stephen63]

I currently have several people on ignore & it feels good. I don't have to put up with their constant yapping, & it keeps me focused.

I mentioned this a few days ago & got an email saying they took my advice & felt sooo much better!

Maybe it would help some of you to do the same.

I'm even recommending my opponents to do the same with me, that way they'll keep their rants down to a minimum.

Oh, & did I mentioned one of those opponents got banned? I know a couple of people feeling good on that one.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is another example of the difference between the two aspects of making statments:

Someone can make the statement

" Riches are deceitful and can cause us to trust in them and not in God and it becomes idolatry when we do put riches in that place in our lives and thus in reality we are idolatrous. God is not against His children having things - He is against things having His children"

Here is the malicious, insulting abusive slanderous behavior in action:

This malicious and malice-filled slanderous poster replies to the above statement in brown and says to the poster directly publicly -

"You are idolatrous and a lover of riches and a false teacher and you preach a false gospel."