Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer
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'Ok let's go back to my question what sin was defeated on the cross?
John 16:7-11
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
So what sin has been judged on the cross?
You quote works of the flesh that didn't really answer my question
John 16:7-11
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
So what sin has been judged on the cross?
You quote works of the flesh that didn't really answer my question
A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.
In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing
New Covenant =Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"
Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.
Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"
Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"
So they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments". In their mind it's saying - "Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."
New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ.
They would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.
1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.
Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0
Ahhh..found His commandments in 1 John 3.
1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. We try to mix the Old Covenant ( before the cross and resurrection ) with the New Covenant and we get a religious mess.
Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.
Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing
New Covenant =Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"
Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.
Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"
Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"
So they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments". In their mind it's saying - "Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."
New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ.
They would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.
1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.
Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0
Ahhh..found His commandments in 1 John 3.
1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. We try to mix the Old Covenant ( before the cross and resurrection ) with the New Covenant and we get a religious mess.
Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.
Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
All sin has been defeated on the cross. Well all except one, which is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, for which Jesus says there is no forgiveness. He defeated it in His own flesh. He nailed it to the cross. Likewise we are to crucify our old man (pick up your cross daily).
However you don't seem to like a "cross" based gospel. The "cross" aspect is something optional for you. Well if Jesus did it ALL on the cross, then there would be no need for you to crucify YOUR flesh now is there? So clearly your dogma has a gaping hole....
Read the beginning of Romans 6. Then we speak more on this topic.
However you don't seem to like a "cross" based gospel. The "cross" aspect is something optional for you. Well if Jesus did it ALL on the cross, then there would be no need for you to crucify YOUR flesh now is there? So clearly your dogma has a gaping hole....
Read the beginning of Romans 6. Then we speak more on this topic.
No sinner is my standard, which would include you.
Christ is the standard, of whom we have His Word.
What a feat!? How did you do it?
Your problem is you know what Scripture says but not what it means, therfore your error and sin for misrepresenting it, note 2 Timothy 2:15.
False implications are slander, which is bearing false witness. Repent, and believe the true Gospel; John 3:7.
Christ is the standard, of whom we have His Word.
What a feat!? How did you do it?
Your problem is you know what Scripture says but not what it means, therfore your error and sin for misrepresenting it, note 2 Timothy 2:15.
False implications are slander, which is bearing false witness. Repent, and believe the true Gospel; John 3:7.
Never said what you imply Fran.....go back and read slowly.....serious!
NOW pay attention and see what the word tragically is applied unto
Originally Posted by Chris1975
Excellent post.
There are other verses like this.
Interesting how one sees only what he wants to see and explains away the rest with concepts that are not biblical.
You should know...you do it quite regularly FRAN......tragically I might add....
and your use of everyone is also false......
NOW pay attention and see what the word tragically is applied unto
Excellent post.
There are other verses like this.
Interesting how one sees only what he wants to see and explains away the rest with concepts that are not biblical.
You should know...you do it quite regularly FRAN......tragically I might add....
and your use of everyone is also false......
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No sinner is my standard, which would include you.
Christ is the standard, of whom we have His Word.
What a feat!? How did you do it?
Your problem is you know what Scripture says but not what it means, therfore your error and sin for misrepresenting it, note 2 Timothy 2:15.
False implications are slander, which is bearing false witness. Repent, and believe the true Gospel; John 3:7.
Christ is the standard, of whom we have His Word.
What a feat!? How did you do it?
Your problem is you know what Scripture says but not what it means, therfore your error and sin for misrepresenting it, note 2 Timothy 2:15.
False implications are slander, which is bearing false witness. Repent, and believe the true Gospel; John 3:7.
The cross aspect is something optional for me?
You know nothing about me?
I know what Jesus went through on the cross.
Me thinks you don't fully understand the cross based Gospel.
My dogma has a gaping hole? Pot kettle black comes to mind.
How about you read Romans 5 and how it relates to Romans 6.
I have done that and just so you know I don't seek to fall foul of Romans 6 but hold on dearly to Romans 5 so I don't fall foul of Romans 6.
Anyway thanks for judging me
You know nothing about me?
I know what Jesus went through on the cross.
Me thinks you don't fully understand the cross based Gospel.
My dogma has a gaping hole? Pot kettle black comes to mind.
How about you read Romans 5 and how it relates to Romans 6.
I have done that and just so you know I don't seek to fall foul of Romans 6 but hold on dearly to Romans 5 so I don't fall foul of Romans 6.
Anyway thanks for judging me
Don't confuse Justification with Sanctification. Romans 5 (Justification). Romans 6 (Sanctification)
Romans 5 we were still enemies and He died for us. We are justified. Made right with God.
Romans 6 sanctification. What was done on the inside by justification now works its was to the outside and the corresponding change in behaviors, etc.
Romans 5 we were still enemies and He died for us. We are justified. Made right with God.
Romans 6 sanctification. What was done on the inside by justification now works its was to the outside and the corresponding change in behaviors, etc.