Not By Works

[PeterJens]

Did God save me because of my behavior?
-No.
Does God continue to save me apart from my behavior?
-Yes.

Jesus is THE GOOD SHEPHERD for a reason.
I'm not saved based on my behavior I'm saved because of JESUS' INNOCENT BLOOD.

When I ask for forgiveness does God take into account my works?
-God looks at the Blood of Jesus on which I put my faith into.

I don't feel any animosity from you but that is my belief. You can judge me based on my belief and that's up to you but my salvation doesn't rest on you does it?

My salvation is on Jesus, hence my faith is on His finished work.



Right! We are called to bow and give thanks because life eternal is a gift. Eternity depends on Jesus' finished work because if not then everything would be nothing.

God is God. God is absolute power, life, love and truth.
Man (me) dependent on God, thereby anything I have was provided by God.

Let me ask you, does the good works you so often preach does it come from you or from God?
Does the love you have for God does it come from you or does it come from God?

Please answer plainly.

I am lost. We are called to follow Christ, to walk in His ways, to love, to not sin, to repent,
to obey, to be holy, to be pure, blameless, to know the blood cleansing our souls,
to love God, to love our neighbour, to die for the brethren.

That is scripture, it preaches this.

And all of this in me is Christ. We are a light on a hill, salt of the earth, the Holy Spirit working
through us. Today I have found in Christ my saviour, and words to lift His name in praise.

Are we able to say at any point, oh that sin is ok, it is just ... Not even once.

So I do not understand your question. We must love, it is our calling. What does Jesus say
to you today? No worries, free sinning day today? Or does He say I love you, look at the cross,
then look at your life and your love and walk in my love.

Please tell me what Jesus says to you because this is what He says to me.
God bless you, May you walk in His ways, Amen.

 

[JohnTalmid]

His name is JESUS and he had no problem with that designation....and I am warping nothing pal....faith = belief...no matter how many times you interject yourself into a working for salvation it will not change the way one is biblically born again....

it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE<-----you should try this instead of conflating like three or four applications of the word....serious

Do you keep the law 100% of the time, 24/7/365.....NO....your adherence to the law and working for pseudo salvation is equated to fools and being bewitched.....see Galatians 1 and 3....

Paul was inspired....you on the other hand...not so much!

Hope your right Jaime however just like your common misunderstanding with the law. I don't see it as condemnation to miss the mark just sin that my Master Yeshua has forgiven me of. (who also didn't condemn the early believers from calling him Jessy.) O r condemn me from loving God the Father who Yeshua revealed to us who walk according to the spirit and not the flesh.
I too having been raised from death to life do not condemn you Jaime. I never have, just like Shaul whos name was never changed to Paul, ( like salvation hinges on this, not)

I would encourage you however your testimony doesn't agree fully with the words you are putting on me. I am redeemed by faith and not works but because I say that the law is beneficial for correction of ones walk with the Lord you throw walking in the flesh, or by my own efforts, statements which don't hurt me or my faith in the least however your testimony doesn't bring up spiritual things but warns of not walking in the flesh. ROM to us walking by the spirit the law is of the spirit and no longer condemns rather it leads into the way in which a child should go. Being you where not raised with this school teacher or by it I find it ghastly that you think to tell a Jew what He should do to please God.

 

[slave]

The power of our will? Show me where our will isn't in bondage. I do believe in original sin. It goes hand in hand with election. It pretty well harmonizes with election...



God is love but he also, as is written, wished to show his wrath and justice, mercy and grace, and so on. It has everything to do with preselection. Even if you don't agree with the doctrine of election clearly taught in scripture, you can try and look at it this way: God knew all things from start to finish, that most would reject him and go to hell. He created them anyway. This is by very definition predetermination. There can be no other outcome or conclusion. You can't wiggle out of it.

And God does not owe us his love. Show me this in scripture. Scripture teaches that God OWES us his wrath if anything.



I agree that we have freedom in Christ, but only then, and by his empowerment, not our own ability. There is a lot in this post to address, so sorry if I didn't respond to everything.

The scripture you posted is in regards to freedom in Christ. It has nothing to do with free-will pre-salvation.

10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”


14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.


19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?





Why can't we just let God be God and accept the simple truth that he is sovereign and we are not.

God is Sovereign, thats why He's given us free will. Your teachings are heresy! Jesus judges you based on your disposition, not only on His. Romans 6:18 along with many other verses have everything to do with our will. Life is based on the choices we make. God has made His choices, satan also has made his. The only question here is whether you serve God's conclusions or satans. Thats a powerful choice, because each choice renders an opposite outcome for us. Insight into the instruction of Jesus depends upon our intention to obey what we know to be the will of God.If we collect a case , like a lawyer, of tid-bits of Scripture to build some doctrine or some end of our own to serve, we shall always find difficulty.

The only way we can be of use to God is to let Him, that's right we must actually let Him take us thru the crooks and crannies of our own characters. It is astounding how ignorant we are about ourselves! We do not know envy when we see it, or laziness, or pride, or even our hidden fear of God's accountabilities. Jesus reveals to us all that this body has been harboring before His grace began to work. How many of us have learned to look in with courage? We have to get rid of the idea that we understand ourselves; it is the last conceit to go. The only one who understands us is God. And God has said in His Word and in my spirit that we are to pick up our cross and follow Him. His knowledge of what we will do doesn't in the slightest affect His love and promises, nor does it affect our choices. And in so saying this I am indeed letting God be God! His Sovereignty only tells me we have His Sovereign Word based on His promises!

 

[FranC]

God is Sovereign, thats why He's given us free will. Your teachings are heresy! Jesus judges you based on your disposition, not only on His. Romans 6:18 along with many other verses have everything to do with our will. Life is based on the choices we make. God has made His choices, satan also has made his. The only question here is whether you serve God's conclusions or satans. Thats a powerful choice, because each choice renders an opposite outcome for us. Insight into the instruction of Jesus depends upon our intention to obey what we know to be the will of God.If we collect a case , like a lawyer, of tid-bits of Scripture to build some doctrine or some end of our own to serve, we shall always find difficulty.

The only way we can be of use to God is to let Him, that's right we must actually let Him take us thru the crooks and crannies of our own characters. It is astounding how ignorant we are about ourselves! We do not know envy when we see it, or laziness, or pride, or even our hidden fear of God's accountabilities. Jesus reveals to us all that this body has been harboring before His grace began to work. How many of us have learned to look in with courage? We have to get rid of the idea that we understand ourselves; it is the last conceit to go. The only one who understands us is God. And God has said in His Word and in my spirit that we are to pick up our cross and follow Him. His knowledge of what we will do doesn't in the slightest affect His love and promises, nor does it affect our choices. And in so saying this I am indeed letting God be God! His Sovereignty only tells me we have His Sovereign Word based on His promises!

Very good post Slave.
I hear a lot about how we depend on God, through us, for works and not on ourselves. As if we're little puppets down here and God is pulling the strings...

He did, after all, give us free will in everything. The most important being the decision to follow Him or satan.

So I like very much what you said about how knowing ourselves is the last barrier. I've learned to like Mathew 7:1-5. So easy to see the fault in others and not to see our own faults. Looking in hurts. We're all so weak and fragile. But with the Holy Spirit by our side we could have the strength to take a peek every now and then.

Positionally we may say we'er not sinners in God's eyes. OK. But I do consider myself to be a sinner who is thankful to Jesus every single day because on my own I'd be Worth nothing.

I also believe we cannot say we do good works THROUGH God. I'm not sure what people mean by this.
Does this mean that God refuses to work through a person who is saved but cares nothing about the Christian life?
Is it God's fault? Do we blame Him?

No. Works are of US. WE do them. In conjunction with the Holy Spirit, but it's our choice.
Is this pride?
So be it.

There is a difference between God doing EVERYTHING for us, and our doing what we CHOOSE to do in HIS WILL, by using our free will.

As in everything spriritual, these are small nuances and we all understand them in our own way.
The important thing is to love and serve God.

 

[slave]

Are you Paul Ellis or did you just plagiarize him? https://escapetoreality.org/2011/08/29/12-examples-of-walking-in-the-spirit/

Yes, I referenced his writings, but my motives were in serving the truth, certainly not to plagiarize. Let me say if you need me to reference it I am sorry I had not done so. What are your motives here in not responding and delighting in those truths, however? Why the posse God-squad hunt of those who don't follow your teachings, or for those even that do follow the truth? I am concerned with the truth of God being spoken; and in as much as that is the case, I have used excerpts of someone that said it well to do that....are you ok with that? Check your motivations, how, actually do you feel about that?

Here's also an excerpt, this time, from Scripture:


"But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice," This is your attitude right?! Hmmm...God doesn't gather men together to be His posse. Or to scrutinize the one's He desires you to serve. He wraps everything in love, otherwise what you stand for is like clanging cymbals. By the way many of those words were used by other men as well in Scripture.

Brother, where do you stand with me?, think about it!.....do you love me? Do you say you love me; yet while scorning me? Wouldn't that be an oxymoron?" And if you scorn me do you feel this is a right given you by God? Or do you read Scripture discerning that such scorn brings judgement onto you by God?

I do say this out of love Brother ... I do. So, what now - right? Should you humble yourself to God, and say what the holy Spirit has clearly laid out for you to say? ... or go to sneering? Your choice. So, what do you think of the article? Truth or fiction?

 

[dcontroversal]

Hope your right Jaime however just like your common misunderstanding with the law. I don't see it as condemnation to miss the mark just sin that my Master Yeshua has forgiven me of. (who also didn't condemn the early believers from calling him Jessy.) O r condemn me from loving God the Father who Yeshua revealed to us who walk according to the spirit and not the flesh.
I too having been raised from death to life do not condemn you Jaime. I never have, just like Shaul whos name was never changed to Paul, ( like salvation hinges on this, not)

I would encourage you however your testimony doesn't agree fully with the words you are putting on me. I am redeemed by faith and not works but because I say that the law is beneficial for correction of ones walk with the Lord you throw walking in the flesh, or by my own efforts, statements which don't hurt me or my faith in the least however your testimony doesn't bring up spiritual things but warns of not walking in the flesh. ROM to us walking by the spirit the law is of the spirit and no longer condemns rather it leads into the way in which a child should go. Being you where not raised with this school teacher or by it I find it ghastly that you think to tell a Jew what He should do to please God.

You obviously did not direct this at me.....and obviously you missed the part about there being NEITHER JEW nor GENTILE in CHRIST as the two have become ONE.....Our justification is found in FAITH, not the keeping of the LAW which NO MAN CAN DO....so...while you toil under the bondage and condemnation of the LAW, I WILL REST in the freedom and peace that comes fro relying upon JESUS and his finished works on my behalf.....

and last time I checked.....the JEWS have been temporarily BLINDED so salvation could be extended unto the GENTILES.....maybe you should read that part and realize your not all that and a bag of chips because you claim to be a JEW

SUCH condemnation and attitude in the bolded above....just like the Pharisees that JESUS REBUKED....they though the same thing you did about the man who was born blind and then healed.....

ANOTHER CAKE TAKER!

 

[PeterJens]

the keeping of the LAW which NO MAN CAN DO

Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Rom 13:10

Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
Gal 6:2

If anyone says "the keeping of the LAW which NO MAN CAN DO" they have not met Christ.

Christ says you can walk like me, you can become like me, we can be one together,
pure, holy, blameless.

Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
1 Cor 12:27

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:28

I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity.
John 17:22-23

Christ came with this promise, have faith and believe in Him today.

 

[dcontroversal]

Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Rom 13:10

Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
Gal 6:2

If anyone says "the keeping of the LAW which NO MAN CAN DO" they have not met Christ.

Christ says you can walk like me, you can become like me, we can be one together,
pure, holy, blameless.

Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
1 Cor 12:27

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:28

I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity.
John 17:22-23

Christ came with this promise, have faith and believe in Him today.

For being English you sure fail to understand English....ok Genius........explain the difference between the two words below

KEEP

FULFILL

a. Nothing more than another twisted embellished line of rigmarole from you
b. The underlined statement is just another false judgment by you

AND you wonder why hardly anyone pays attention to you......

Do me a favor.....don't even address me if you cannot be honest and not embellish or change the words I use to make your lies look biblical!

 

[garee]

Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Rom 13:10

God's love according to the labor of it is a work of faith alone. It fulfils the whole law perfectly. He alone worked off the whole sin debt, the one wage for any sin of eternal damnation. This is not of our own selves not walking after the flesh we walk by faith the unseen it alone comes from hearing God through the scriptures.

Even the atheist loves other atheist with God’s love. God is love.

Love is measured by him used by human kind. It not just love but who is applying it to our hearts. We do not use the love of God in respect to ourselves. We work out our salvation not work for it to gain salvation.

 

[PeterJens]

For being English you sure fail to understand English....ok Genius........explain the difference between the two words below

KEEP

FULFILL

a. Nothing more than another twisted embellished line of rigmarole from you
b. The underlined statement is just another false judgment by you

AND you wonder why hardly anyone pays attention to you......

Do me a favor.....don't even address me if you cannot be honest and not embellish or change the words I use to make your lies look biblical!

The law of Christ is a set of principles.

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Rom 13:8-10

Paul is saying by loving you do all the things the commandments tell you how
to behave. One is the method of doing or fulfilling the law.
So I fulfill the law of not commiting adultery by loving women in purity and truth.

What you interpret fulfill to mean is to do away with the law, so it is now lawless
and you can do what you like.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

https://www.gotquestions.org/law-of-Christ.html

 

[dcontroversal]

CAN YOU keep the whole law....yes or no will suffice?

If you offend in one POINT your are guilty of the whole......

YES or NO...can YOU keep the LAW 24/7/365....a simple YES or NO will suffice PETER

 

[gb9]

CAN YOU keep the whole law....yes or no will suffice?

If you offend in one POINT your are guilty of the whole......

YES or NO...can YOU keep the LAW 24/7/365....a simple YES or NO will suffice PETER

come on doc, you know he does not give simple, straight answers. how could he lecture us about how holy, pure, and righteous he is ( while he calling you a nutjob, and saying I am apostate ) , how could he do all that and give simple straight answers??

 

[blessedjohn80]

I am lost. We are called to follow Christ, to walk in His ways, to love, to not sin, to repent,
to obey, to be holy, to be pure, blameless, to know the blood cleansing our souls,
to love God, to love our neighbour, to die for the brethren.

We are called to follow Christ and it is the direct result of the innocent blood of Jesus.

Jesus instituted the Communion for the purpose of renewing our minds to the truth.
The truth is His complete work of salvation!

That is scripture, it preaches this.

And all of this in me is Christ. We are a light on a hill, salt of the earth, the Holy Spirit working
through us. Today I have found in Christ my saviour, and words to lift His name in praise.

That's right, through us, not from us. All that is good does not come from us.
Everything good comes from God because He is the source of everything good.

Are we able to say at any point, oh that sin is ok, it is just ... Not even once.

I don't understand where you are going with this.

So I do not understand your question. We must love, it is our calling. What does Jesus say
to you today? No worries, free sinning day today? Or does He say I love you, look at the cross,
then look at your life and your love and walk in my love.

Please tell me what Jesus says to you because this is what He says to me.
God bless you, May you walk in His ways, Amen.

Jesus tells me that we must receive His finished work daily and live, to trust God and Jesus, and to fear not.

Jesus is a good shepherd and I place my trust in the good shepherd that He will lead me not to evil but to safety.

Is it really difficult to answer a simple question plainly?

The good works that you do, do they come from you or from God?

 

[FranC]

We are called to follow Christ and it is the direct result of the innocent blood of Jesus.

Jesus instituted the Communion for the purpose of renewing our minds to the truth.
The truth is His complete work of salvation!



That's right, through us, not from us. All that is good does not come from us.
Everything good comes from God because He is the source of everything good.



I don't understand where you are going with this.




Jesus tells me that we must receive His finished work daily and live, to trust God and Jesus, and to fear not.

Jesus is a good shepherd and I place my trust in the good shepherd that He will lead me not to evil but to safety.

Is it really difficult to answer a simple question plainly?

The good works that you do, do they come from you or from God?

Apparently, you feel the good works that we do come from God.
Please provide scripture supporting this.

If God gets the glory for our works,
Does He get the blame for our sins?

 

[dcontroversal]

come on doc, you know he does not give simple, straight answers. how could he lecture us about how holy, pure, and righteous he is ( while he calling you a nutjob, and saying I am apostate ) , how could he do all that and give simple straight answers??

He cannot answer truthfully.....why....

Yes--->busted as a liar
NO---->busted on his holier than thou attitude

and I agree with your assessment......!

 

[Grace777x70]

People that believe in the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection are quick to say that we are saved unto good works - that God has already prepared that we walk in them.

They are His good works manifesting in and through us - the branches - that we participate in as sons/daughters in the family business of telling others of the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

None of these "good works" create salvation or righteousness - Jesus alone is our salvation and righteousness.

There are "fruits" of His salvation and righteousness that stem from a believer as they walk by the spirit but they do this "because" they are already saved and righteous from Christ's work of grace through faith.

Where the "conflict" arises is from the nature and origin of the work - self-effort or from the life of Christ.

Outwardly they look the same. Abraham tried to "do the will" of God in his own self-effort and created an Ishmael.

God doesn't recognize our own efforts in the flesh even when trying to fulfill the words of God.

God told Abraham "Take your son, your only son...

Resting in the Lord is not a passive, lazy existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need in Christ and we access His wisdom, provision, strength, and protection by faith, we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active lifestyle.

Rest is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in the good works that God had planned for us all along.

Resting in Christ is our warfare

....resting in Christ is our obedience to the faith

......resting in Christ is our faith in action


Psalm 127:1 (NASB)
Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

 

[dcontroversal]

New American Standard Bible
For it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

King James Bible
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[blessedjohn80]

Apparently, you feel the good works that we do come from God.
Please provide scripture supporting this.

If God gets the glory for our works,
Does He get the blame for our sins?

Our works?
Does your breathing then come from you?

Just how did Adam came to life?
Who created everything?

If in heaven who then is Worthy?
Is it you and Christ?

No it is only Christ.

Only Jesus name is above all names.

"For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.…"

"Does He get the blame for our sins?"

Have you not heard of the cross?

Don't be too focused on yourselves and forget what Jesus did.

 

[blessedjohn80]

Apparently, you feel the good works that we do come from God.
Please provide scripture supporting this.

Please look up Genesis 1.

The last verse being:

"Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

Meditate on it for a while if you still don't get it.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Well, this thread has gone down south in a handbasket... :/ LOL