Do you personally believe most people are good and kindhearted?
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Everyone rationalises their behaviour with reference to themselves so though it
can be sinful to the person it seems ok behaviour.
I have an interesting exchange with my teenagers.
Everything I am asked to do I must do straight away, but if I ask them to do something
a day could go by until something happens. Called double standards and disrespect.
Until we have fellowship in Christ we do not really know what love and Christ truly is.
can be sinful to the person it seems ok behaviour.
I have an interesting exchange with my teenagers.
Everything I am asked to do I must do straight away, but if I ask them to do something
a day could go by until something happens. Called double standards and disrespect.
Until we have fellowship in Christ we do not really know what love and Christ truly is.
What is "good"? I think that needs to be defined first.
I thought I was a pretty good guy before I was saved. I occasionally did favors for people, and didn't always verbally hurt people.
Not that I'm anything great now, but I look back on that dude and go "whoa!!" What a jerk!
Outside of some of my brothers and sisters in Christ, I don't see much good, even from those who seemingly do good. Their motivation is almost always self-centered in some way. But at least now I can see their brokenness and feel sorrow that they don't have Jesus.
I thought I was a pretty good guy before I was saved. I occasionally did favors for people, and didn't always verbally hurt people.
Not that I'm anything great now, but I look back on that dude and go "whoa!!" What a jerk!
Outside of some of my brothers and sisters in Christ, I don't see much good, even from those who seemingly do good. Their motivation is almost always self-centered in some way. But at least now I can see their brokenness and feel sorrow that they don't have Jesus.
There Is more people that have not been reborn of the SPIRIT of GOD than those that have been reborn of the SPIRIT of GOD,If a person has been reborn of Incorruptible seed then their spirit has been saved and sealed.
If they have not been reborn of Incorruptible seed then they might be good with ulterior motives.
If they have not been reborn of Incorruptible seed then they might be good with ulterior motives.
C
I do believe people are basically good and kind hearted. When Jesus came and walked among us, I believe He saw this as well, and had He NOT believed it He wouldn't have died for our sins. Why would He, had He not seen something? As persecuted as He was, slapped in the face , tortured and crucified, He still saw something As He asked "Father forgive them! For they know not what they do !" You think it was blind hope? No, He saw something. He saw He needed only to touch madmen, and they could be changed. He saw murderers of Christians change and follow Him. He saw rich politicians and rich men change, and move away from worldly possessions and follow Him. Sinners as we all are, He saw our soul was not concrete evil, and He died for every single person! And you might look at a person who is cruel and selfish and ask "Why?" Why would Jesus die for this guy (or gal)?Because He knows why, even if we don't.
People are NOT basically good. ALL of human history bears witness to this fact. The Bible SPECIFICALLY tells us that NOT ONE IS GOOD. Out of Jesus' mouth Himself. THAT'S the reason He had to die.
Yes, people have done seemingly good deeds outside of the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but that does NOT mean THEY are good.
[h=1]Romans 3:10-12New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][FONT="]10 As it is written:[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”[a]
[/FONT]
[h=1]Luke 18:19New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][FONT="]19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
[/FONT]
[h=1]Romans 3:23New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][FONT="]23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
These verses, and others, definitively say WE ARE NOT GOOD, until we are made a new righteous creation and are filled with the Holy Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
[/FONT]
Yes, people have done seemingly good deeds outside of the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but that does NOT mean THEY are good.
[h=1]Romans 3:10-12New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][FONT="]10 As it is written:[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”[a]
[/FONT]
[h=1]Luke 18:19New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][FONT="]19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
[/FONT]
[h=1]Romans 3:23New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][FONT="]23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
These verses, and others, definitively say WE ARE NOT GOOD, until we are made a new righteous creation and are filled with the Holy Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
[/FONT]
It all depends on the situation,for people can be very good and kindhearted towards people,but in certain circumstances they can become the most ruthless,and cruel people towards other people.
I do not want to get in to all the different scenarios that cause people to be good and kind,and ruthless and cruel,but people from one generation to another can change so quick to not be the kind of people they used to be because of the change that occurred,which is different settings that can cause it,and some situations causing them to be more ruthless and cruel,and other a really high dislike for people.
But an example is America before technology,which causes businesses to be able to reach out to more people,and caters to the lusts of people,and causes money to flow like a big dog in America,which causes them to pursue that money big time,and then they do not like each other as much.
As long as society does not have anything to be able to grasp unto to exalt themself as human nature wants to do,people will get along fairly well,and be good and kind to each other,and have a general concern for people.
America allows the pursuit of money and material things which can cause people to not like each other as much,but before technology businesses had to basically stay in their general vacinity,so nobody was seriously getting rich,and money was not flowing like a rampant river in America.
People got along good because the competation and greed,and selfishness,was kept down,they did not have anything to really grasp unto to exalt themselves,at least not for the vast majority.
But with technology booming,businesses can reach out farther to people,and cover more area,and with the internet really get the money train rolling for people,and money flowing like a big dog,and with all that money flowing people trying to rake it in legally,and illegally.
They have something to grasp unto now money and material things,and they heap it like a big dog catering to their human nature to exalt,and businesses can heap money in a ludricrous fashion,ripping and gipping the very people that made them rich,and can never have enough for they collect money.
The people made them rich,and how do they reward them,with higher prices,lower quality,and less quantity,that is how they reward the very people that did business with them for many years.
And after seeing that behavior go on for many years of people being selfish,and arrogant,pursuing these things and it is something they can grasp to exalt themselves,and businesses that cannot ever have enough money,millionaires,billionaires,and people scamming,ripping and gipping,trying to get all they can and forget everybody else,the attitude now is people do not like each other as much.
The attitude became people basically care about themselves,with little regard for anybody else,so you do not care about me,then I do not care about you,and they get worse as time goes on,and will exalt themselves more,which means they will not like each other as much,which causes them to exalt themselves more,which they do not like each other even more,and it keeps going on,and causes people to drift apart,even affecting people claiming to be with Christ.
But there is another exalting factor that people can cling unto to exalt themselves that will be more worse than the materialistic,and monetary exaltation that goes on now.
The new age movement that is about spiritual evolution through nature,that exalts people personally to be something great.
Multimillions of people that cannot exalt themselves in society,low on the social ladder,working at minimum wage jobs,depressed,and not very happy thinking they did not achieve much.
The new age movement is the answer for all the people that want to exalt themselves,but cannot do it in any other way,not being very intellectual,not much physical prowess,not very skilled at anything other than the playstation king.
It will be a way for all the pencil neck geeks,97 pound weaklings,the people struggling financially,dweebs,knuckleheads,numbskulls,halfwits,dimwits,doofus,peabrains,nimcompoop,twerp,simpleton,people that in society are not regarded as anything special,to be able to exalt themselves and say look at me,I am somebody special.
They will eat it up like the finest steak and lobster.
Because the truth is the world wants to be arrogant,and exalt themselves,for that is what the world is based on,some more than others,in the past they could only do it a little,very little,which was not much of a difference to cause people to dislike each other a great deal,but today with the businesses,sports stars,entertainment industry,or anywhere else they are viewed as someone special,they exalt themselves a lot,and everybody wants a piece of that action,and be someone special too.
Because the world suffers from what I call Cribitis,or the Baby Crib Syndrome.Even though they left the baby crib they still cary that attitude with them throughout their life,wah,notice me,give me attention.
So we have to deal with all that comes with that,notice me,give me attention,I am special,because nobody really leaves the baby crib behind.
Only those that are in the truth of God will escape Cribitis,for Jesus must increase,but we must decrease.
I do not want to get in to all the different scenarios that cause people to be good and kind,and ruthless and cruel,but people from one generation to another can change so quick to not be the kind of people they used to be because of the change that occurred,which is different settings that can cause it,and some situations causing them to be more ruthless and cruel,and other a really high dislike for people.
But an example is America before technology,which causes businesses to be able to reach out to more people,and caters to the lusts of people,and causes money to flow like a big dog in America,which causes them to pursue that money big time,and then they do not like each other as much.
As long as society does not have anything to be able to grasp unto to exalt themself as human nature wants to do,people will get along fairly well,and be good and kind to each other,and have a general concern for people.
America allows the pursuit of money and material things which can cause people to not like each other as much,but before technology businesses had to basically stay in their general vacinity,so nobody was seriously getting rich,and money was not flowing like a rampant river in America.
People got along good because the competation and greed,and selfishness,was kept down,they did not have anything to really grasp unto to exalt themselves,at least not for the vast majority.
But with technology booming,businesses can reach out farther to people,and cover more area,and with the internet really get the money train rolling for people,and money flowing like a big dog,and with all that money flowing people trying to rake it in legally,and illegally.
They have something to grasp unto now money and material things,and they heap it like a big dog catering to their human nature to exalt,and businesses can heap money in a ludricrous fashion,ripping and gipping the very people that made them rich,and can never have enough for they collect money.
The people made them rich,and how do they reward them,with higher prices,lower quality,and less quantity,that is how they reward the very people that did business with them for many years.
And after seeing that behavior go on for many years of people being selfish,and arrogant,pursuing these things and it is something they can grasp to exalt themselves,and businesses that cannot ever have enough money,millionaires,billionaires,and people scamming,ripping and gipping,trying to get all they can and forget everybody else,the attitude now is people do not like each other as much.
The attitude became people basically care about themselves,with little regard for anybody else,so you do not care about me,then I do not care about you,and they get worse as time goes on,and will exalt themselves more,which means they will not like each other as much,which causes them to exalt themselves more,which they do not like each other even more,and it keeps going on,and causes people to drift apart,even affecting people claiming to be with Christ.
But there is another exalting factor that people can cling unto to exalt themselves that will be more worse than the materialistic,and monetary exaltation that goes on now.
The new age movement that is about spiritual evolution through nature,that exalts people personally to be something great.
Multimillions of people that cannot exalt themselves in society,low on the social ladder,working at minimum wage jobs,depressed,and not very happy thinking they did not achieve much.
The new age movement is the answer for all the people that want to exalt themselves,but cannot do it in any other way,not being very intellectual,not much physical prowess,not very skilled at anything other than the playstation king.
It will be a way for all the pencil neck geeks,97 pound weaklings,the people struggling financially,dweebs,knuckleheads,numbskulls,halfwits,dimwits,doofus,peabrains,nimcompoop,twerp,simpleton,people that in society are not regarded as anything special,to be able to exalt themselves and say look at me,I am somebody special.
They will eat it up like the finest steak and lobster.
Because the truth is the world wants to be arrogant,and exalt themselves,for that is what the world is based on,some more than others,in the past they could only do it a little,very little,which was not much of a difference to cause people to dislike each other a great deal,but today with the businesses,sports stars,entertainment industry,or anywhere else they are viewed as someone special,they exalt themselves a lot,and everybody wants a piece of that action,and be someone special too.
Because the world suffers from what I call Cribitis,or the Baby Crib Syndrome.Even though they left the baby crib they still cary that attitude with them throughout their life,wah,notice me,give me attention.
So we have to deal with all that comes with that,notice me,give me attention,I am special,because nobody really leaves the baby crib behind.
Only those that are in the truth of God will escape Cribitis,for Jesus must increase,but we must decrease.
G
I have actually been thinking about this thread, believe it or not. I think those of us who hold to the belief of original sin and that all are corrupted have not done a very good job of explaining to those of you who think people are basically good.
The thing is this: say you are in a hospital, and you need a bandage to cover your wound. The doctor could use a piece of gauze that is pure, clean white. For the most part of the bandage, it is clean. BUT there is a tiny little germ on it- invisible to the naked eye. If this germ gets onto your open wound, it will infect you and rot sets in.
This is how it is with people. If there is even a tiny, teeny bit of sin- then the person can not be called "good". Even a little dirt on a piece of clothing makes the whole garment dirty.
Of course people can be kind, love their children and spouses, be altruistic. But what of it? A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. The Bible says that our righteousness is as filthy rags.
Anyway, I hope this kind of makes a little more sense to people who wonder what our belief in total depravity is all about. It is biblical, too.
The thing is this: say you are in a hospital, and you need a bandage to cover your wound. The doctor could use a piece of gauze that is pure, clean white. For the most part of the bandage, it is clean. BUT there is a tiny little germ on it- invisible to the naked eye. If this germ gets onto your open wound, it will infect you and rot sets in.
This is how it is with people. If there is even a tiny, teeny bit of sin- then the person can not be called "good". Even a little dirt on a piece of clothing makes the whole garment dirty.
Of course people can be kind, love their children and spouses, be altruistic. But what of it? A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. The Bible says that our righteousness is as filthy rags.
Anyway, I hope this kind of makes a little more sense to people who wonder what our belief in total depravity is all about. It is biblical, too.