Context reveals this isn't about salvation as it is about the promises of God and how the Lord chooses people (such that He chose Abraham over all the men of the earth) or Israel over all the nations. That is the context. You trying to extrapolate a doctrine for salvation out of it is misguided and damning, as already revealed in the heart of the person who even started this thread.
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My advice to you is to be careful what you are reading here as there are some that have doctrines that end up making your salvation dependent upon yourself instead of the Lord Jesus. Remember faith is key, don't fall for the religious junk that you'll see being passed off as the Gospel here. Christ, and Him alone. You are saved by grace through faith.
You see the people slinging me through the mud? I probably shouldn't have responded to them as you can see, they are quick to defame and tear down. Instead of having a conversation and maybe politely explaining how I may have misrepresented someone, they rather be cut throat and automatically assume ill-intent. So, good luck and keep your guard up. Indeed, study God's word and may the Holy Spirit lead you into all truth.
You see the people slinging me through the mud? I probably shouldn't have responded to them as you can see, they are quick to defame and tear down. Instead of having a conversation and maybe politely explaining how I may have misrepresented someone, they rather be cut throat and automatically assume ill-intent. So, good luck and keep your guard up. Indeed, study God's word and may the Holy Spirit lead you into all truth.
I
Thank you! 
I have not left Catholicism (at least not yet... whatever God wants of me, I'll do) but I have to say I don't have faith in images, or symbols or rites or stuff like that although I respect it for my family and as a kind of language made of symbols. I like the Neo Catechumenal way a lot though, very nice people, straightforward. My faith is in a perfect formless God who is in control, although I am still learning. And still very confused.
PS: I have faced rejection by people at the Catholic church this I can say.
I have not left Catholicism (at least not yet... whatever God wants of me, I'll do) but I have to say I don't have faith in images, or symbols or rites or stuff like that although I respect it for my family and as a kind of language made of symbols. I like the Neo Catechumenal way a lot though, very nice people, straightforward. My faith is in a perfect formless God who is in control, although I am still learning. And still very confused. PS: I have faced rejection by people at the Catholic church this I can say.
Thank you! I have not left Catholicism (at least not yet... whatever God wants of me, I'll do) but I have to say I don't have faith in images, or symbols or rites or stuff like that although I respect it for my family and as a kind of language made of symbols. I like the Neo Catechumenal way a lot though, very nice people, straightforward. My faith is in a perfect formless God who is in control, although I am still learning. And still very confused.
PS: I have faced rejection by people at the Catholic church this I can say.
I have not left Catholicism (at least not yet... whatever God wants of me, I'll do) but I have to say I don't have faith in images, or symbols or rites or stuff like that although I respect it for my family and as a kind of language made of symbols. I like the Neo Catechumenal way a lot though, very nice people, straightforward. My faith is in a perfect formless God who is in control, although I am still learning. And still very confused. PS: I have faced rejection by people at the Catholic church this I can say.
I
Thank you... by now I don't feel attacked by anyone here and I have to say everybody is really generous in explaining their views to me, I am kind of making sense of the essence, which is basically, if I'm not mistaken:
- God is perfect Love and is in control
- Everything that happens is controlled by God in spite of appearances
- Yes there is something we can do, repent and turn to the Gospel.
- If we pray, it is because God wants it, not us. Free will is a mind concept that doesn't exist.
- We are saved by Grace, because we are indeed like these little worms on the floor but God is gratious and sends us His Holy Spirit to transform us.
- Relax and trust (this is the most important teaching for me today).
- Keep on praying and doing things for my salvation, they are OK. God is experiencing this through me and it is perfect.
Thank you very much for teaching me, I still have much to learn, and the Gospel is no pajama party, it is real and tough stuff. Many many blessings and thanks.
- God is perfect Love and is in control
- Everything that happens is controlled by God in spite of appearances
- Yes there is something we can do, repent and turn to the Gospel.
- If we pray, it is because God wants it, not us. Free will is a mind concept that doesn't exist.
- We are saved by Grace, because we are indeed like these little worms on the floor but God is gratious and sends us His Holy Spirit to transform us.
- Relax and trust
(this is the most important teaching for me today). - Keep on praying and doing things for my salvation, they are OK. God is experiencing this through me and it is perfect.
Thank you very much for teaching me, I still have much to learn, and the Gospel is no pajama party, it is real and tough stuff. Many many blessings and thanks.
No one is dragging you through the mud man. You have misrepresented me and made snide remarks to p4t and now you are playing victim. And the worst of all, you post an article from an open theist and try and pass it off as truth. Not even Arminians agree with open theism because it's so obviously heretical.
I
You're welcome. Learn from those who know truth and who do not compromise the truth by employing the works of false teachers. I pray God to grow your discernment and guide you into His love and true Gospel. You'll find Forthangel, SovereignGrace, Angela53510 and several others to be solid in doctrine and understanding of the Word. Proverbs 23:23. Don't compromise for anything.
I did no such thing. My reference point was the original post. It is there that you'll find a misrepresentation then. Snide remarks? He has shown himself to be in poor judgement. He doesn't know me and apparently neither do you. If you read his posts he is coming off prideful and speaking of being snide, did he not tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about and to go study? It sounds insulting, with no meekness in his approach.
As for the open theists "issue", the article doesn't seem to need to bend to that belief system in order to make its point so your attempt at a refutation is moot. Instead of crying "open theist", maybe you should rather address the points given? They don't rely on open theism to invalidate the deterministic perspective.
As for the open theists "issue", the article doesn't seem to need to bend to that belief system in order to make its point so your attempt at a refutation is moot. Instead of crying "open theist", maybe you should rather address the points given? They don't rely on open theism to invalidate the deterministic perspective.
I
Many thanks You are all being awesome with someone who is still learning. This really gave me food for thought for today. Regardless of the arguments, which I still don't understand, I have to say I am very grateful to all of you because my head will be full of questions about the Scripture today instead of bad memories or guilt and remorse from the past. And I know I am learning. You did more to me and explained more to me today than many priests who just blah if you question them. I will pray for discernment and also pray with gratitude about all of you. Many many blessings and Love
You are all being awesome with someone who is still learning. This really gave me food for thought for today. Regardless of the arguments, which I still don't understand, I have to say I am very grateful to all of you because my head will be full of questions about the Scripture today instead of bad memories or guilt and remorse from the past. And I know I am learning. You did more to me and explained more to me today than many priests who just blah if you question them. I will pray for discernment and also pray with gratitude about all of you. Many many blessings and Love
The bolded above is a misrepresentation of what I and p4t believe. If we are destined to hell, it is by our own hand. God didn't force it on us as your post deceptively implies that we believe. This is the most common way reformed believers are misrepresented. I stated in my opening post that I don't espouse this view.
Also, there is no reason to address the points in the article. The man is a heretic. Anything he tries to push should be rejected outright. There are better sources for truth. Iamlearning is here for support and to learn true Christian doctrine and you have pointed her in the direction of heresy. You should prolly apologize for that.
I didn't see your post until after I posted as there wasn't one post on this thread when I opened it up. Going from the original post that seemed to be your stance. There is no deception in the post, there is such a belief system that people hold to, and while you may not be that person, it still exists.
If you don't mind, you can stop attempting to imply that I am intentionally trying to misrepresent you. That is defamatory of you, and that is deceptive when I clearly have said that my response was directly influenced by what was shared in the OP and not with subsequent posts.
If you don't mind, you can stop attempting to imply that I am intentionally trying to misrepresent you. That is defamatory of you, and that is deceptive when I clearly have said that my response was directly influenced by what was shared in the OP and not with subsequent posts.
As I said, in reading what I did, it had enough to merit a rebuttal as he didn't lean upon his open theistic belief system for its groundwork. He appealed to context, among other things. Even if he did lean upon open theism, not all points do. I disagree with you on many things it seems, yet that doesn't mean you don't have anything to offer or don't deserve my attention. One should be careful in tossing around the word heretic, because for some you are just as much as the other guy. Its not fair, and truly should only be used when the person denies Christ, and Him crucified.