God hating you before you're born?

[Willie-T]

Why would you put $1 million in someone's bank account if they aren't using it?

Why would Jesus redeem the Pharaoh? He certainly didn't save him. Why did Jesus redeem Lot's wife. He certainly didn't save her. Jezebel? Ahab? Herod? Why redeem that which you aren't redeeming?

And, if you're into giving away money, want my address to send the check? lol

How many years did you leave that $ just lying in the bank before you thanked Jesus for it, and accepted it and Him? I have no idea why He died for any of us. I have met few I thought were worth it.... but I do believe the $ is in the account for our entire lives, just waiting for us to accept it.

Maybe God does like in the parable of the Talents, and rolls it over as even more reward for others if we never accept it.

I just have to do my best with what I feel I understand. I find myself falling far short of so many other people who read some verses, and can then emphatically inform others on how the whole universe works.

 

[trofimus]

If you all leave your position "this group of verses is on my side" and put both groups of verses together, you will get to an agreement.

And also to the right theology.

I believe Calvinism is much more closer to the truth than Arminianism, but some extreme ignorant positions making us to look like robots are wrong too.

 

[Magenta]

Thanks for the kind words and it's been great seeing all of your inspiring pictures and posts since I've been back.

And just so I can be clear, I don't think God causes everything, for instance making man sin. I don't think we are puppets. Mine is the second post on this thread and I made that clear. Been accused, by people like Mr. Willie here, and of course others, all throughout the thread though. Getting a bit irritating

So, it's probably time for a break.

Thank you also for your kind words to me It means a lot; every kindness is precious, especially in this sea of contention, where discussion sometimes takes on many shades of darkness while we are desirous of shining the Light of Truth. May the radiance of perpetual light shine on you eternally, and may the love of God penetrate every fiber of your being

 

[PrynceNY]

Why would you put $1 million in someone's bank account if they aren't using it? Why would Jesus redeem the Pharaoh? He certainly didn't save him. Why did Jesus redeem Lot's wife. He certainly didn't save her. Jezebel? Ahab? Herod? Why redeem that which you aren't redeeming? And, if you're into giving away money, want my address to send the check? lol

Well lots wife was going to be saved until she made the choice to disobey and looked back.

 

[Grace777x70]

Acts 16:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

[SUP]31 [/SUP] They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

It looks like Paul knew the gospel because he knew enough to include the jailer's household too that would hear and believe the gospel message of Christ - when the jailer asked "How do I get saved?" Paul says "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved - and your household.

In other words - all those that heard the gospel that believed would be saved.

 

[Depleted]

Yes,everyone who does not believe on the Lord will be lost. Yes,they will go to hell because of their CHOICE. Not because God denied them the choice. That is where you are wrong. And the Bible does not support reformed theology,at least not this part.

And this is what I mean. Where did Marano ever say God sends people to hell by denying their choice?

You keep telling us what we believe despite it has absolutely nothing to do with what we believe. How can we be wrong over something that isn't even in our sphere of belief or opinion?

Then you are wrong about the six-legged polka-dotted whale on the dark side of the moon, too.

 

[Depleted]

Humm, do nothing because we are already selected, and "they" aren't.... or declare God before all men, telling them the kingdom is also for them. That's a no-brainer of a choice.

...and completely unrelated to what she said.

 

[preacher4truth]

Well lots wife was going to be saved until she made the choice to disobey and looked back.

Soooo...if Lot's wife didn't look back she would have gained eternal life? Hmmmm. Interesting. Never heard that one before and will wait for a spin to be put on it.

I think I'll break out some Boston too. Maybe that's what its song meant...lolzzzz.

 

[kaylagrl]

1. You misunderstand irresistible grace? When God slathers the grace onto us after redeeming us, it is irresistible. He doesn't slather it on all. When he forgives, we don't go, "oh, that's nice, but excuse me. I was doing something and want to get back to it." We're blown away. Suddenly we see all the sin we've done in our lives and how much that hurt the very one forgiving us. We repent. We then want to do what he wants us to do. No holds bar! THAT is the irresistible grace. Is there a resistible grace after he redeems us? Can we truly go, "Ho-hum?"

2. Actually, I don't try to win souls. It's not a contest. BUT how many times will you keep asking that question after I/we have answered it over and over again? I have answered that one to YOU specifically even in this thread, and you ignored it. What changes by repeating myself, when you aren't listening?

3. You honestly don't know what long-suffering is? You're right. It is in 2 Pet. 3 -- quite the explanation too.
3 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, 3 knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. 4 They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. 7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
It is in the bag. You want winners and losers? God wins! When he is done -- saving the last of whosoever will believe -- then comes the new heavens and new earth!

The rest of your verses are there, ripped out of content to say what you want them to say, instead of what they do say in like fashion. And like I've told you multiple times why we evangelize, I have shown John 3 in context even more often, and yet you keep ripping out one part of something Jesus said while ignoring the rest.

4. He did pay for all our sins -- the sins of the elect, not every single sin ever. That too is clear in the entire Bible, but you keep acting like it's not. And why? Because he had to. I've gone through the scapegoat clause with you multiple times too, and yet, again, you act like I have never. No one has ever.

AND you keep telling this as if you completely never heard the other side of this, even though anyone who believes the other side is wrong/a liar/doesn't know the Bible as well as you do/etc.

If you don't want me to call you on that, don't do it! You are calling me a liar. You are calling Forth a liar. You are calling Trof a liar. You are calling Marano a liar. You are calling Angela a liar. You are calling every single Calvinists on this site a liar!

Stop it! You have been told. If you don't want to believe it, I don't care. I do, very much care, that you portray Calvinists as all liars! And why? Because you keep asking the same questions without ever seeing/acknowledging/reading/whatever, WE HAVE TOLD YOU THE TRUTH! OFTEN!

Quote " You misunderstand irresistible grace?"

No,I dont misunderstand and yes we can go ho hum or the Bible would not say things like "believe on the Lord", command us to repent and turn from sin and to choose. All of that is unnecessary if people are elected or rejected. So either Gods a liar or you need to take a second look at what you believe.


Quote " Actually, I don't try to win souls."

Of course you dont,with what you believe theres no purpose to it!

Quote "It's not a contest."

No,its a command,a commission.

Quote" You honestly don't know what long-suffering is?"

No,it was a rhetorical question. Why would God need long suffering with man when he already put the gun to their head and said "you,you and you,you're going to hell no matter how much you beg for mercy" He'd close His ears and hum a tune,He wouldn't talk about long suffering and striving with man. And He would send His only Son to be murdered for people already selected for heaven.

Quote "He did pay for all our sins -- the sins of the elect, not every single sin ever."

No,the Bible does not teach that.And you have to do some fancy twisting to say that. The Bible clearly says "for all" and "the whole world"


Quote "I've gone through the scapegoat clause with you multiple times too, and yet, again, you act like I have never. No one has ever.

AND you keep telling this as if you completely never heard the other side of this, even though anyone who believes the other side is wrong/a liar/doesn't know the Bible as well as you do/etc.

Lynn Im not trying to be smart here.You and I have not argued over Calvinistic teachings.You will not find me in the grace threads.And odd comment but you do not find me arguing with you nor anyone. So I dont know what you are talking about nor who but you have me confused. You and I have not argued this subject.

Quote "If you don't want me to call you on that, don't do it! You are calling me a liar. You are calling Forth a liar. You are calling Trof a liar. You are calling Marano a liar. You are calling Angela a liar. You are calling every single Calvinists on this site a liar!"

Im stating what the Bible says,I have pointed out verses,that is all.I have not called any of you a liar. I think you have misunderstood Scripture and are following a wrong theology.The Bible does not support it. But that does not mean you are a liar nor have I called you one.


Quote "Stop it! You have been told. If you don't want to believe it, I don't care. I do, very much care, that you portray Calvinists as all liars! And why? Because you keep asking the same questions without ever seeing/acknowledging/reading/whatever, WE HAVE TOLD YOU THE TRUTH! OFTEN!"

Lynn your over reaction in these posts surprise me.Ive always known you to be direct,but you outright angry. I have never,ever called you a liar. I dont argue with Calvinists and I stay out of those threads and this is the very reason why. You are over reacting Lynn,seriously over reacting. I believe in tongues and people in this very thread think Im possessed by the devil for believing it. You dont see me screaming at people to stop it and dont call me a liar etc. I know what I believe and no one is going to change what I believe.You screaming at me and falsely saying Ive called Calvinists lairs is still not going to change my mind.I have friends in my real life that are Calvinists,we dont bring up what we dont agree on. How could we be friends if I think they are liars? I believe they are wrong. But when people scream at me what they believe it makes me wonder who they are trying to convince,me or themselves?

 

[PrynceNY]

Soooo...if Lot's wife didn't look back she would have gained eternal life? Hmmmm. Interesting. Never heard that one before and will wait for a spin to be put on it. I think I'll break out some Boston too. Maybe that's what its song meant...lolzzzz.

Disobedience to God has consequences , that's throughout the scriptures

 

[Depleted]

Lynn,please slow down.Im not your enemy and Im not denying anything. Im pointing out what Scripture says.And throughout Scripture it shows that God has given us a choice.The Bible says "CHOOSE you this day who you will serve" and "I set before you life and death,CHOOSE life"


John 3


There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
24 For John was not yet cast into prison.
25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.




Nothing denied or lied about.The whole chapter is there.

And, was Joshua chosen? Yup, before he ever said that.

And what about hiding in the darkness as to the answer of every one of our choices, until "they are wrought in God?"

 

[kaylagrl]

And this is what I mean. Where did Marano ever say God sends people to hell by denying their choice?

You keep telling us what we believe despite it has absolutely nothing to do with what we believe. How can we be wrong over something that isn't even in our sphere of belief or opinion?

Then you are wrong about the six-legged polka-dotted whale on the dark side of the moon, too.

Some are elected,right?! Some are doomed for hell. And those that are not elected can never be saved.Is this or is this not what you are saying?!

 

[BeyondET]

wow a lot of post in here in 11 hours, hatred must be a hot topic for folks to talk about,

 

[Depleted]

There are those who say it is all of God and none of us, as if we do not have a choice nor a role to play in choosing Him and repenting; they will say everything that man does is God's will. In fact, their stance makes God a monster who orchestrates every evil ever perpetrated by one upon another, so...

It is all of God and some of us.

God elects, predestines, calls, regenerates, redeems, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies.

We willingly repent, and walk with him in sanctification. BUT, we also do that because of him in us, not of our flesh.

 

[Depleted]

Wait a minute. We are to seek Him? So, anyone who seeks Him will be saved? I thought you said there were those other poor slobs (not us, of course) who were born to burn?

So, they just THINK God is calling them?

Anyone who is saved, seeks him.

 

[Willie-T]

I still don't understand one thing about this "election."

So, you guys are saying that absolutely anyone who thinks they are a Christian had to first be called of God? So, everyone on this forum is "elected?" Even me, when I don't believe in "election?"

And, therefore, anyone who thinks they were called of God is one of the "elected." (This is assuming that NO ONE would call themselves "Christian" if they did not believe they somehow had 'some kind of beckoning from God.')

 

[kaylagrl]

wow a lot of post in here in 11 hours, hatred must be a hot topic for folks to talk about,

Right which is why I usually leave these threads alone.

 

[Depleted]

So your one of those people who believe only the elect will be saved.

Name one person who wasn't elected, but was saved.

 

[Iamlearning]

hey, Willie

yes, all who call upon the Name of the Lord will be saved. i wholeheartedly believe that.

i'm not sure where i said that.
i don't see a dichotomy in God's sovereign election and anyone who comes to Him in repentance and faith being saved.

i know we have theological differences. in my opinion, this thread is a bit of a train wreck.

this young woman is seeking help. not sure the family squabbles are giving it to her.

No worries, I am learning a lot today indeed. Some things I still don't understand but I appreciate all your contributions and learning from all of them. Thank you many blessins.

 

[Depleted]

So how do you account for the free will of the 1/3 of the angels exercised, that fell with Satan?

How do you account for the mice?

(I have no idea how it works for other species, since God really just never said in his book. Then again, I must admit. I don't ever recall reading where a third of the angels fell in the Bible either. Might be there, and I forgot, but I honestly have only heard the hearsay about this angels falling thing.)