Not By Works

[PeterJens]

Your belief has been challenged yet you stick with them.

My belief is more or less the same as yours.
The major difference is the role of future sin, repentance, confession and forgiveness.

Now I see no challenge to this.
My core point is simple. Are we called to get a pass ticket to heaven or
to become like Christ?

If one gives up on a walk like Christ, the only option is to be seen as like Christ yet not.
The theology seems to all flow from this question.

Now Ariel from her statements of faith seems to hold to what I believe except she holds
a definitive security of salvation, I am ambivalent. If you can choose to follow you can
choose not to.

I have serious problem with any faith or religion or person who ignores morality, down plays
it. A world in anarchy is a world of death. Lawlessness is the mark of the enemy, and the
enemy of my family, my society and my life and faith. So I have to draw the line here and
ask why do those who condemn traditional christian faith do not hold to morality?
Why is repentance corrupted and trampled on, the cornerstone of the gospel and our failure
before God?

I have a problem with blind legalism, but I have no problem with love and Gods law, the outflow
of love and justice. Again the same group attacked even reading the law of God, of seeing the
sermon on the mount as condemnation, a curse rather than a blessing. My heart did not echo
with theirs at all.

It appears this group is far larger and more profound than I or anyone first realised.
So I want to appeal to you, about who Christ is and His good news. It is we can walk in Gods
will, in love and know we are loved and love others in His ways. No greater thing in the universe
than God should call us His friends. Do you not hear Jesus talking.

"You are my friends if you do what I command."
"Love one another as I have loved you"

Wow. Impossible things, things not of this world, things we find hard to love our own
family, but strangers who are merely fellow believers? Surely, impossible.

Be of one mind and heart, you kidding, that hill billy is not my friend, stranger but the
same faith, and God but do not expect me to like him.

So a mystery how Jesus's commands are so far from real experience.
Or a while guy loving a black brother? The kinds should be kept apart.
Yea that really is biblical. People talk about Christ very quickly but do not really listen.

 

[JIMBO43]

Nah, Peter says he attends a Baptist church.

What denomination church do you hang your hat Jimbo?

Dont think I ever saw.

I want to say Pentecostal but I might be wrong.

I like the pentacostals all tho i dont believe one must speak in tougnes to be saved..

Im just a soldier for God..

But when i go to church i always go to the one i visted as a kid... the anglican catholic church........

 

[JIMBO43]

My belief is more or less the same as yours.
The major difference is the role of future sin, repentance, confession and forgiveness.

Now I see no challenge to this.
My core point is simple. Are we called to get a pass ticket to heaven or
to become like Christ?

If one gives up on a walk like Christ, the only option is to be seen as like Christ yet not.
The theology seems to all flow from this question.

Now Ariel from her statements of faith seems to hold to what I believe except she holds
a definitive security of salvation, I am ambivalent. If you can choose to follow you can
choose not to.

I have serious problem with any faith or religion or person who ignores morality, down plays
it. A world in anarchy is a world of death. Lawlessness is the mark of the enemy, and the
enemy of my family, my society and my life and faith. So I have to draw the line here and
ask why do those who condemn traditional christian faith do not hold to morality?
Why is repentance corrupted and trampled on, the cornerstone of the gospel and our failure
before God?

I have a problem with blind legalism, but I have no problem with love and Gods law, the outflow
of love and justice. Again the same group attacked even reading the law of God, of seeing the
sermon on the mount as condemnation, a curse rather than a blessing. My heart did not echo
with theirs at all.

It appears this group is far larger and more profound than I or anyone first realised.
So I want to appeal to you, about who Christ is and His good news. It is we can walk in Gods
will, in love and know we are loved and love others in His ways. No greater thing in the universe
than God should call us His friends. Do you not hear Jesus talking.

"You are my friends if you do what I command."
"Love one another as I have loved you"

Wow. Impossible things, things not of this world, things we find hard to love our own
family, but strangers who are merely fellow believers? Surely, impossible.

Be of one mind and heart, you kidding, that hill billy is not my friend, stranger but the
same faith, and God but do not expect me to like him.

So a mystery how Jesus's commands are so far from real experience.
Or a while guy loving a black brother? The kinds should be kept apart.
Yea that really is biblical. People talk about Christ very quickly but do not really listen.

Lol well i could do all this and also i could box there heads off if they wanted to... im up for anything me coz i God is is in the ring and he is a good ref..

 

[BillG]

I get bored of this questioning. Have I not told people what my faith is?
Being a standard traditional evangelical with a statement on my blog and
enumerable statements of where I stand, why do I have to repeat to the
same people? Are they deaf, got short term memory loss, gone into a time
warp?

Christ is all in all through the cross. Only by Him are we washed clean, purified,
made whole, established in the heavenlies, bonded with the everlasting, filled
with the Holy Spirit, and born again on the repentance of sins, confession of sins
and putting ones faith in the cross for the forgiveness of our sins.

Empowered by His love and cleansing, we can truly walk in righteousness, and through
sanctification become like Christ as we walk in obedience. Faith keeps us in communion,
while we work through the issues and learn what love from the heart is and how it flows
from us. Can we loose this? Some of my friends who once appeared to have faith now
do not. Some who walked in spiritual gifts are now atheists. Some are apostate, some
heretics, so it appears we do not know, but if we stay faithful God remains faithful to
His promises. My question is the other way, can we aspire to be truly one in Christ,
knowing His will and letting Him flow through us in love and power?

Why would I be fascinated with failure, when we should press on to eternity and fulfillment.

I am sure someone will ask this to me again, and still I will say the same, so Praise the Lord
that through our confession He is glorified, Amen

PJ look at your first paragraph.

There may be many people on this forum who may not understand the word 'emunerable' let alone standard tradional evangelical and what it means to be one and they have never read your blog about it because they did not know you blogged it>

So now as a result you call them deaf, suffer with memory loss or gone into a time warp.

If you are sure that someone will ask you again you then why do they ask again?

I am not being rude to anyone here but I would say to you PJ explain it to them, to me (which I always ask) like I'm a five year old.

Your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs don't really tie in.

We are purified and sanctified through the cross and born again of one confession of sin That sin is unbelief of Jesus.
Then we are given the Holy Spirit as a deposit of our inheritance.

Sanctification is an ongoing process but when we sin and the Holy Spirit reveals it to us we come before God, admit we got it wrong, ask him to help us and thank him we are forgiven.

I notice in a lot of your posts you mention people who you knew appeared to beleivers and are now lost, this being the case I understand that you want to see people fulfill their commitment and walk with them in heaven.

But you need to understand that there are people who do not believe in your view point but will still be in heaven.

You me can't make that judgement call. Only God can.

 

[Ariel82]

Ok so i thought of this scripture today mathew 41“Watch and pray so that you will not enter into temptation. For the spirit is willing, but the body is weak.”


The spirit is willing but needs prayer.

Coz other wise the body will take over...

Now tell me if salvation has saved you how could the body still take over ?..............

We don't get new resurrected bodies until Jesus returns.

Although the flesh is not evil in itself, we are to consecrated as holy temples to God because the Holy Spirit lives within us.
.However we learned many bad habits before God saved us and have us renewed hearts and minds. God calls these Spiritual strongholds that war against the knowledge of God.

We daily have to fight and tear down,these strongholds that tempt us into sin and away from God's will for our lives.

It's an internal battle that when won has the peaceable fruit of righteousness.

The Holy Spirit reveals to us daily what battle we must undertake because we are human and big changes take time to truly take hold in our minds and hearts.

God's lessons are contrary to everything the world teaches:

If you wish to be great,be a servant to all.
Don't curse but.bless your enemies.

Forgive those who don't deserve it.

Give to those who can't repay you.

Love those who hate you.
Tame your tongue and avoid backbitting,gossip and evil speaking
****

God's lessons are not easy.

Patience is taught by undergoing trials upon your Faith.

Godliness is taught by God's chastenment of your sins.

 

[PeterJens]

Cuz you don't give a straight answer Peter and make accusations that people who have stated what you say you believe to be believers in "easy believism" and "free ticket gospel".....So the question is what do you ,believe that they dont that you feel justified to make such "observations"?
*****
If someone has no external works but has true Faith in Jesus as savior, will they be saved...yes or no?

I have not clue. God knows not I. I am just an encourager to go deeper.
The problem with the 4 spiritual laws, is it is a formula, when love is a life journey.

If someone says to me, you are not a believer because you believe faith can be lost,
I think, pardon. Faith being lost is just what happens to some.

Easy believism is joining a group, who have unclear theology and have a few spiritual
experiences and you are saved. When asked anything is detail, nothing is understood
or articulated, but the person is saved, they are sure of it.

I met this one guy who went to a prosperity type church in central London. He was about
to try and witness to me. I said I was a christian and we were believes by faith alone in Christ
for the forgiveness of sins. He looked at me like an alien. Whatever he thought was faith it
obviously was not this. I call this easy believism, where the basics are missed and repentance
and faith are just not preached about. And what I mean by repentance is deep sorrow for sin
and sense of unworthiness and a desire to walk in righteousness through the cross. This is my
spiritual walk, I have no other.

 

[Ariel82]

Alright Peter. Love you still and will give you some scriptures to ponder.

1 Corinthians 2.

10According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilledb master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

 

[PeterJens]

We are purified and sanctified through the cross and born again of one confession of sin That sin is unbelief of Jesus.
Then we are given the Holy Spirit as a deposit of our inheritance.

This concept of coming to faith be confessing only the sin of unbelief in Christ.
Never heard of this before you mention it.

The sins I confessed was everything I ever have done, my failure to love and know
what love is, to care, the desire to hurt others, the lashing out and being defensive,
the list goes on. That is the conviction of sin, the sense of unworthiness, the knowing
there is a reality you want to leave and Christ seems to offer a way out.

You appear to have a faith with no recognition of what sin actually is.
And you way of coming to faith is not the John the Baptist way or repentance.
So not surprise we come to different conclusions, and emphasis.

What you are talking about is not a biblical model.

 

[JIMBO43]

We don't get new resurrected bodies until Jesus returns.

Although the flesh is not evil in itself, we are to consecrated as holy temples to God because the Holy Spirit lives within us.
.However we learned many bad habits before God saved us and have us renewed hearts and minds. God calls these Spiritual strongholds that war against the knowledge of God.

So your saying a newly decorated bodied will be incoruptable..

But how come are seed can become corupted... ?

We daily have to fight and tear down,these strongholds that tempt us into sin and away from God's will for our lives.


It's an internal battle that when won has the peaceable fruit of righteousness.

How can the battle be won against the flesh when it is a daily battle ?.

The Holy Spirit reveals to us daily what battle we must undertake because we are human and big changes take time to truly take hold in our minds and hearts.

Reveals as in all of the time.. coz how come i get attacked when im least expecting it.. ?.

The bible states to be on the watch tower all the time coz you never know the minute when the enemy will attack..

Means God does not allow satan to do any work of any sort.... satan does it anyway like a sneeek without Gods permission..

God's lessons are contrary to everything the world teaches:

If you wish to be great,be a servant to all.
Don't curse but.bless your enemies.

Forgive those who don't deserve it.

Give to those who can't repay you.

Love those who hate you.
Tame your tongue and avoid backbitting,gossip and evil speaking
****

God's lessons are not easy.

Patience is taught by undergoing trials upon your Faith.

Godliness is taught by God's chastenment of your sins.

The bible also states Give and it will be given.. bless and you will be blessed...

Good works is what makes a man a good man..

 

[BillG]

My belief is more or less the same as yours.
The major difference is the role of future sin, repentance, confession and forgiveness.

Now I see no challenge to this.
My core point is simple. Are we called to get a pass ticket to heaven or
to become like Christ?

If one gives up on a walk like Christ, the only option is to be seen as like Christ yet not.
The theology seems to all flow from this question.

Now Ariel from her statements of faith seems to hold to what I believe except she holds
a definitive security of salvation, I am ambivalent. If you can choose to follow you can
choose not to.

I have serious problem with any faith or religion or person who ignores morality, down plays
it. A world in anarchy is a world of death. Lawlessness is the mark of the enemy, and the
enemy of my family, my society and my life and faith. So I have to draw the line here and
ask why do those who condemn traditional christian faith do not hold to morality?
Why is repentance corrupted and trampled on, the cornerstone of the gospel and our failure
before God?

I have a problem with blind legalism, but I have no problem with love and Gods law, the outflow
of love and justice. Again the same group attacked even reading the law of God, of seeing the
sermon on the mount as condemnation, a curse rather than a blessing. My heart did not echo
with theirs at all.

It appears this group is far larger and more profound than I or anyone first realised.
So I want to appeal to you, about who Christ is and His good news. It is we can walk in Gods
will, in love and know we are loved and love others in His ways. No greater thing in the universe
than God should call us His friends. Do you not hear Jesus talking.

"You are my friends if you do what I command."
"Love one another as I have loved you"

Wow. Impossible things, things not of this world, things we find hard to love our own
family, but strangers who are merely fellow believers? Surely, impossible.

Be of one mind and heart, you kidding, that hill billy is not my friend, stranger but the
same faith, and God but do not expect me to like him.

So a mystery how Jesus's commands are so far from real experience.
Or a while guy loving a black brother? The kinds should be kept apart.
Yea that really is biblical. People talk about Christ very quickly but do not really listen.

i agree with most of what you are saying, now that's not getting at you cause I want to fully reply.

So I am going to ask the following, it's not a trick question and it's not trap you.

Given what you know about me and my beliefs and you say that our joint beliefs are similar but MAJOR differences.

So please just answer the question with one of two words (and I'm not asking you to play God here but asking your judgement call based on what you have come to know about me)

Now for the question.

Given our differences will both be in heaven or not. Yes or No?

If at then end of this question when I finish it with ? and God called time what then?

 

[BillG]

This concept of coming to faith be confessing only the sin of unbelief in Christ.
Never heard of this before you mention it.

The sins I confessed was everything I ever have done, my failure to love and know
what love is, to care, the desire to hurt others, the lashing out and being defensive,
the list goes on. That is the conviction of sin, the sense of unworthiness, the knowing
there is a reality you want to leave and Christ seems to offer a way out.

You appear to have a faith with no recognition of what sin actually is.
And you way of coming to faith is not the John the Baptist way or repentance.
So not surprise we come to different conclusions, and emphasis.

What you are talking about is not a biblical model.

John 16:8-11
And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

I appear to have a faith with no recognition of what sin actually is?

I can't get angry at that comment and the reason being is you have judged me and actually you have made me very sad and I am holding back my tears.

You are a fool who says foolish things. That comment you made is the same as Jesus said to the Pharisees and by that statement you consider me a Pharisee.

I hope you are proud of yourself.

 

[BillG]

This concept of coming to faith be confessing only the sin of unbelief in Christ.
Never heard of this before you mention it.

The sins I confessed was everything I ever have done, my failure to love and know
what love is, to care, the desire to hurt others, the lashing out and being defensive,
the list goes on. That is the conviction of sin, the sense of unworthiness, the knowing
there is a reality you want to leave and Christ seems to offer a way out.

You appear to have a faith with no recognition of what sin actually is.
And you way of coming to faith is not the John the Baptist way or repentance.
So not surprise we come to different conclusions, and emphasis.

What you are talking about is not a biblical model.

Just so you know I am fully aware of my sin, whether it be times in unbelief, sins of commission and sins of ommison I come before God every day with them.

Now my anger against you is starting to burn and I will leave it at that.

 

[JIMBO43]

now can one boast in good works... i think yes if there from God..

So i had a brainwave im going to start a thread called the donation thread.... how about that for a good works... am i inspired or what

 

[BillG]

now can one boast in good works... i think yes if there from God..

So i had a brainwave im going to start a thread called the donation thread.... how about that for a good works... am i inspired or what

Not sure we can boast in good works but sure can thank God for using us to do good works.

Keep the brainwaves coming my fiend, it shows you are using it.

God bless ya Jimbo

 

[JIMBO43]

and when he comes billy he will give many blessings in the way of conviction

 

[JIMBO43]

Not sure we can boast in good works but sure can thank God for using us to do good works.

Keep the brainwaves coming my fiend, it shows you are using it.

God bless ya Jimbo

good bless you to mate

 

[BillG]

and when he comes billy he will give many blessings in the way of conviction

Looking forward Jimbo to walking into heaven with you. You with the St Andrews flag and me with Scottish flag.

When we do we will come to to know the full majesty of God and the greatness of Jesus.

 

[BillG]

now can one boast in good works... i think yes if there from God..

So i had a brainwave im going to start a thread called the donation thread.... how about that for a good works... am i inspired or what

Its a good job our brains are brains and not micro.

Otherwise we would have a microwave.

ok corny I know but raised a small smile

 

[JIMBO43]

hmm does that mean i get to taste that funky chicken of yours lol...

 

[BillG]

hmm does that mean i get to taste that funky chicken of yours lol...

We can eat haggis on the way up. Assuming we can catch one of course