Calvinists,Im Asking...

[Depleted]

The church that we went to believed in Replacement Theology. Many Calvinists believe that the church has replaced any and all promises made to the Jews. So it's the church now and Jews are not a chosen people anymore.

Believing that didn't make them Calvinists though.

 

[kaylagrl]

Okay, so this is how I see it, even knowing it's not how I'm supposed to see it. (I do get being Reformed is supposed to mean I don't believe this. I can't help it. I'm stuck here.)

God's walking through Death Row. Nothing but Dead-Men-Walking down that corridor. Each one is dead in sin, deserves separation from God, death, and hell, so we are where we're supposed to be. And yet, the Lord unlocks some of the doors to set the prisoners free into him. Some of the doors. Not all of the doors. He chooses some.

How does that not mean he chose others to be not-saved? Granted, they deserve the punishment as much as the ones he set free, but he did not chose them, which, in itself is his choice, right? To not make a choice is a choice.

Quote "How does that not mean he chose others to be not-saved? Granted, they deserve the punishment as much as the ones he set free, but he did not chose them, which, in itself is his choice, right? To not make a choice is a choice."

Yep,right here is what hangs me up.This is where we part ways on belief.

 

[kaylagrl]

I hope that plunger is brand new! lol

Hahahaha! I never thought of that.I have trouble with my kitchen sink clogging so I have one just for my kitchen.Im waiting to have someone over for dinner one night and pull it out. shhhhh

 

[lonestar26]

We're just going to go in circles. No, the carnal man is unable to choose God. It requires a new nature which requires being born again of the Spirit. All of mankind is condemned already due to their collective rebellion. And I never said it was the Gospel. It's an overview of God's relationship to man. He has found all of mankind guilty. Every last person who ever lived or ever will. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, none are righteous, none seek after God, we are slaves to sin, the carnal mind is against God and cannot submit to his law, the carnal mind cannot please God, and so on. And then the other side, those he foreknew he predestined, those he predestined he called, those he called he justified, those hes justified he glorified. I highlighted mind because it proves that a man cannot think one day, oh, I think I'll be a christian and follow Jesus. Impossible according to scripture. We can do nothing to please God in our fallen state. Sin corrupted to the core. We see heart, mind, and flesh are all in a state of corruption and rebellion against God before salvation.

Jesus told the Pharisees that they do not believe because they are not of his sheep, not that they aren't of his sheep because they do not believe. He also said all that the Father has given him will come to him and his sheep hear his voice.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

It's all about him, not us.

I know you will pull the foreknown card, so let me just say that God created time and space and he is not a fortune teller. He didn't choose someone based off of merit or some inclination they may have or by being intelligent enough to choose him while others were too stupid to. You do nothing to get your salvation. When you demand grace, it's no longer grace.

So one day a few Saints that were not reformed Calvinists died and went to heaven. Peter greeted them at the Gate and begin walking them towards Heavens intake center. As they walked, the ones that were not reformed Calvinists noticed they were coming up to an intersection in the streets of Gold and as they turned left, Peter urged them to be very quiet and not say a word as they passed a large Gate.....As the non-reformed Calvinists passed by the Gate they heard a large party going on behind the Gate. It took everyone about 3 minutes to get past the Gate.

Once they were about 500 feet past the door, Peter motioned to the non-reformed Calvinists they could talk again. One Pentecostal asked Peter why they had to be quiet passing the door.

Oh said, Peter laughing hard, That was the Reformed Calvinist part of heaven.............Jesus commanded us to be quiet when we pass by their Gate.....because they believe he said they are the only ones here.....

 

[Depleted]

Oh i know. The unconditional election condemns infants if you believe in that.

Hm, and I thought God condemned sin. Whoda thought unconditional election condemns?

For anyone interested in learning what Unconditional Election really means, here's an article. TULIP and Reformed Theology: Unconditional Election

 

[lonestar26]

The lost must be regenerated, they don't simply freely choose Christ out of their deep founded love for God that is inherent within them. But that is what the free will false gospel preaches, that they went to Christ out of genuine love for Him and chose Him to save them. That is really an arrogant, fleshly thing to say about ones self that compared to others this is what they did. They should be proud, and they are.

But, you know, they give all the glory to God in token fashion.

God must do His work in the heart, what we call "regeneration" which is what took place within Cornelius in Acts 10. The only way he pleased God was because he was regenerated, then, after Peter was called to preach to him, he was converted. Bo one in the flesh can please God, Romans 8:8, yet the free willers say they can which is nothing short of full Pelagianism.

Last time I checked Romans 6, the new man and his new nature are raised together with Jesus Christ....I never went to Christ because of my love, his Holy Spirit drew me to him with Christs own love towards me and when I chose to accept the fact that I was a sinner and wretched and fell short of the glory of God and in need of a savior. I then accepted Jesus, then my old man died with Christ and my new man was raised into newness of life with Christ....I made this choice when the Holy Spirit revealed, convicted and convinced me of how wretched and lost I was.

 

[lonestar26]

I honestly never realized just how destructive it is until just this moment. You're right. It's straight up Pelagianism.

Its only Pelagianism if you discount the convicting work of the Holy Spirit, which is also something else you guys dismiss outright.

 

[Depleted]

Right? Was that what you meant when you told me in a thread I don't preach the Gospel either, not even knowing who I am? Was that ugly too, or is it only the "others?" Sorry, but your post has Matthew 7:1ff written all over it.

Yes, you are ugly too. Or does two wrongs suddenly make a right? Kind of old to keep playing the "but he did it first, Mommy" card. And, on here, you really were the first Reformer to go nasty on non-Reformers.

It isn't often that people are given the chance to explain what they think without the assumption half the people on BDF are going to bop you over the head to tell you why your wrong. This is one of those times, and yet you still have to bop people over the head anyway.

You just like bopping people over the head, and that too is not Reformed Theology. That's you. "Leave it!"

 

[Depleted]

Be fair. The Free willers came in here starting with us when Kayla made it clear the intent of this thread.

Um, Kayla is a "Free-willer." Does free-willer mean everyone who believes that has been nasty? Nope. How about sticking with Kayla's topic and don't take the bait! (Practice, practice, practice. I did say I'm still working on it. lol)

 

[Depleted]

I'm not concerned with what you want to hear, believe me.

The fact is you did bear false witness, and you're still doing so.

The other fact is that warning sheep against wolves like Osteen isn't tinkling cymbals and sounding brass. "Love" isn't giving wolves a free ride, so you need to study some Scripture and get context down because you're way off track.

The same one who wrote that passage theopneustos also told us to reprove and rebuke the wolves.

That being said, you are one out there telling the sheep to not worry about the wolves in the fold and misapplying Scripture. You're also bearing false witness both against me, and clear Biblical instructions to warn others.

Perhaps you should read Paul's warning to the sheep again in Acts 20. You're clueless to the mandate of exposing false teachers.

Perhaps you should remember, once again, that we are all sinners in need of Christ. Once you realize that includes you, then maybe you start treating other people like they were you. Maybe you could use a refresher course on Mark 12:31.

 

[Depleted]

We have a right to defend our position when it's in question. Again, why the blame shift to us? We weren't hunting out anyone, they came to us. With more misrepresentation of our position I might add.

Oh, come on now! Prove "right to defend self" biblically.

Let's face it. You were scolded, didn't like it, so attacked. Get over self, and get back to the subject matter. I don't even see "right to defend self" in The Constitutions, once more the Bible.

If someone misrepresents what Reformed Theology is, show how that is wrong. If someone misrepresents you? Grow up and move on! Or, feel free to start a thread on "Representing Myself."

Don't make me pull this car over.

 

[Depleted]

It was NOT false witness because I said I did NOT see you preach the gospel in that thread.

IT IS NOT MY FAULT YOU FALSELY took it as accusation that you NEVER preach the gospel. It was an invitation for you to proclaim what you actually believed. Instead you take offense and hold it.

Truthfully I don't want to hear anything from you p4t because you falsely represent people's beliefs and have nothing but earthly wisdom with an occasional glimpse of the divine.

Okay, what do you do when your kids start one of these never-ending battles? Do the same to yourself. It takes at least two to argue. Stop being one of two, yeesh!

 

[Depleted]

Still our fault huh?

Yup! Sure is! Now deal with it!

 

[kaylagrl]

Free will has something to do with OSAS too?

The stuff I did not know! I think we're all learning new stuff in this thread.

Now OSAS is what would be the discussion with my Baptist friends.I dont believe this way but I understand better now what they are saying.If they believe people are elected then of course they cannot sin.

 

[Marano]

So one day a few Saints that were not reformed Calvinists died and went to heaven. Peter greeted them at the Gate and begin walking them towards Heavens intake center. As they walked, the ones that were not reformed Calvinists noticed they were coming up to an intersection in the streets of Gold and as they turned left, Peter urged them to be very quiet and not say a word as they passed a large Gate.....As the non-reformed Calvinists passed by the Gate they heard a large party going on behind the Gate. It took everyone about 3 minutes to get past the Gate.

Once they were about 500 feet past the door, Peter motioned to the non-reformed Calvinists they could talk again. One Pentecostal asked Peter why they had to be quiet passing the door.

Oh said, Peter laughing hard, That was the Reformed Calvinist part of heaven.............Jesus commanded us to be quiet when we pass by their Gate.....because they believe he said they are the only ones here.....

I don't believe only the reformed will be in heaven, I believe all that will be in heave are the elect, so the ones who pass the gate quietly are part of the elect too.

 

[kaylagrl]

My tried and true comparison.

Did you know cats are omnivores, not carnivores? They need more than meat to live on. And yet, put a starving lion in a wheat field with no game, and he will die! He could eat the wheat. Nothing stops him from eating the wheat, except he just never thinks to eat the wheat. Matter of fact, lions would live longer if they realized they were omnivores.

In like kind, we are sinners. We don't have to sin. We can choose not to sin. It just never dawns us to not-sin, unless God regenerates us.

Our will is free. We are still captured by our nature. Our sin nature never conceives to not-sin, because not-sin is outside of sin-nature. What saves us is God's super-nature.

​ Ok so....I learned something new about lions.

 

[Depleted]

By some ForthAngel, but not all.

Just like some Hyper Calvinist condemn babies to hell.

Should all Calvinist be judged by that extreme example?

Stop it! Just stop it! You don't know what hyper-Calvinist believe either. Just because non-Calvinists throw that term around doesn't suddenly make it mean something.

Again, this is Kayla's thread to learn what Calvinists believe. I am truly glad you're here learning too, but you have it in you thinking you already know what we believe, so you can teach the stuff.

I'll make you a deal. Stop using the word "hyper-Calvinist!" It is highly insulting. And, if you don't, expect me to have no problems making some kind of equally insulting word for what you believe and then keep calling you that!

I don't teach quantum physics because I wouldn't know what it was if I took a year to study it. In like kind, you do not know what Calvinism is by reading an article or two online about it. Just don't! I beg of you don't, because you are muddying the waters, not clearing it up!

That's been done enough on this forum!

 

[kaylagrl]

The Wesley's opposed predestination and sent off some snarky letters to George Whitefield pertaining to this (one or the other or both, cannot recall at this time). They are the first of the "angry arminians" and we see this same attitude from those of this theological camp today.

The Wesley's hated the teachings, hence their following, and note my signature. I believe iirc this would include hatred toward Sovereign election.

They may have claimed to be Reformed, but that just isn't true. They also had some strange goings on at their meetings. Weird manifestations that are unbiblical. Whitefield also saw these at his and at some point denounced them as not of God. He was correct but these manifestations have carried over into today's false gospel camps.

Strange goings on as in....?

 

[Depleted]

I have not read Arminus sermons or letters but Wesley clearly States the need for God's grace to be saved.

People from both "sides" of the debate make false claims of what the other believes...strawmen...then proceed in burning them.

Word up. You probably don't want to read Arminius' writing. Let's face it. What he wrote and how the reformers responded, (because truth is Calvin himself was never involved in TULIP at all, he'd roll in his grave if he had any inkling people were stupid enough to use his name for a belief system lol), is written hundreds of years ago, and even Shakespeare is hard enough to read. It's just too hard to read that kind of English.

AND, I don't know anyone who has.

 

[Depleted]

1689 LBC: Chapter 9: "Of Free Will"



I don't see it as so different from what Wesley teaches about free will.

And yet, the words "free will" today, often mean "man freely chose God." Go figure!