Calvinists,Im Asking...

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Ariel82

Guest

No, not merging the two. Prevenient grace gives the ability to be free to choose yes or no. Because we are slaves to sin, God gives prevenient grace that frees us at that time to respond to the gospel. It comes before the saving grace.
How does one get saving grace? Is it a gift from God or earned by having faith?

Why do some people have faith and others do not?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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I think you complicate things too much.

It would be best if you all post specific Bible verse you are basing your view on.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
I think you complicate things too much.

It would be best if you all post specific Bible verse you are basing your view on.
Yeah...not practical to post the whole Bible and if you post part,folks will say it's out of context...so is it really helpful?

I look back at the covenant God made with Israel through Moses and couldn't see,where He promised them Eternal life. He promised them,earthy blessings but no external life.

However someone can post a scripture and prove my views wrong,

****

Hebrews 10
Hebrews 10 ►
English Standard Version
Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All

1For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5Consequently, when Christa came into the world, he said,

“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.

7Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”

8When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
 
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Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
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No, it doesn't. Jesus refutes it. The only way to have a choice is to be drawn by God or to be gifted faith that would allow one to be saved. From your view, this means all are drawn, or all are granted this type of faith, which by Jesus' own words obligates him to save everyone who is drawn or given this ability to believe. The only conclusion is that either Jesus will save all men since all men must be drawn and given a choice, or Jesus is lying.

Got to quit for the day. Off to run errands. Jesus welcomes all, desires all to come to the knowledge of the truth. As He wept over
Jerusalem, we see God's heart. He desires all would be saved.

And He gives them the ability to do so through His prevenient grace. All mankind will die knowing the truth and either rejecting it or accepting it and receive God's grace of salvation through faith. It's what He teaches.

We read that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Let that sink in for a moment. Instead He's pleased when we repent. Glory Hallelujah!!!

If God does what pleases Him, He gives mankind the ability to repent. Each person will die, knowing they rejected truth and did not repent of their wicked deeds. They could have, but they chose not to. Not because God passed them over and only chose some. He desires that all men everywhere repent and live.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Yeah...not practical to post the whole Bible and if you post part,folks will say it's out of context...so is it really helpful?
I do not know. But there are so many theological terms, their explanations, links to outside sources... and maybe one or two Bible verses would say the same thing...?
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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The Light is Jesus. Every man is given a soul or the breath of life from God that yearns for union with God and His will.
But not everyone has the light of Jesus.

Some turn from their inner light and allow their souls to die,
They are already dead (Eph 2.1-3). What they NEED is life, but it is only given to some.

but Jesus can breath life into dead bones.
He breathes life into those chosen by God (John 6.37-42).
 
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Ariel82

Guest
I do not know. But there are so many theological terms, their explanations, links to outside sources... and maybe one or two Bible verses would say the same thing...?
Nah.that's why they give us the terms and links because it's not about the Bible verses but HOW you read and understand the Bible.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Nah.that's why they give us the terms and links because it's not about the Bible verses but HOW you read and understand the Bible.
I disagree. I think that the reformed theology can be proven from the Bible alone. You do not need any outside catechism to do it for you.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
But not everyone has the light of Jesus.



They are already dead (Eph 2.1-3). What they NEED is life, but it is only given to some.



He breathes life into those chosen by God (John 6.37-42).
Jesus appeared to the world. His Gospel,His words are the light but not all have Jesus within them

In Genesis it says God breathed life into man...often translated as soul.

I say some because out of every generation God has His chosen few that he keeps from turning away or that He restores.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
I disagree. I think that the reformed theology can be proven from the Bible alone. You do not need any outside catechism to do it for you.
Sounds good. Can you give us the scriptures than?
 
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Depleted

Guest
I have a short list for this thread...only Calvinist (or reformed folks who hold to TULIP) I have found are you, Marano, and Trifomus

I read Kayla and Depleted because she is the OP and she mentioned Lynn and her were having this discussion.

I think Lynn is reformed, not sure if she is Calvinist though.

Would it help if I apologize ForthAngel?

I probably should have let it slide, instead of commenting.

I haven't even gone into the other threads (beyond a quick reading of a few posts) or commented because they just became nasty.

The question I ask is...how would Jesus have us show love to one another?
By the Church's standards, I am a 5-point Calvinist.

I have mixed feelings on the word "Calvinist." (Which, btw was my point on trying to come up with another word for Arminians. Calvinist is often used in a mocking tone, as is Arminians. I don't like to be called a Calvinist because of that, so I don't want to call non-Calvinists Arminians for the same reason. BUT Pelagan is a full-on insult to all Christians, so I really hate that word. And so I tried Wesleyans, because no one gets insulted by being called a Wesleyan. That was exactly what I've been trying to say, but I get this distinct feeling that Wesleyan ticks you off, because I don't know enough about Wesley. :p So, now I'm really stuck on what to call non-reformeds that isn't insulting, because I don't like to be insulted. lol) BUT so few non-TULIPers (better word? lol) understand the words "Reformed Theology," that it's hard to call myself Reformed because so few know what the heck I'm talking about.

So, I consider myself Reformed, (and, in all honestly, I don't really consider 3-pointers or 4-pointers Reformed. They're a mixed bag), but I don't mind Calvinist just as long as there is no mocking meant by the word.


And, just so people understand, darn tooting! The mockers insult me. I'm not stupid enough not to notice. I'm begging like crazy to God to give me the strength not to go snarky! Or to defend myself. I also use the ignore feature on this site quite often, because I'm not good at letting that alone. You can seriously judge when I remember to do that and when I don't. You can tell when I don't because I'm still practicing the art of ignore. Not mastered yet. Practicing!

And, one other thing about me -- I will tell you the truth of what I see no matter who you are. When you do wrong, I'll call you on it. When you do right, I'll "like," agree, high-five, or let you know that too. I give what I want to get. This is who I am. No defense needed.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
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Yet the Lord longs to be gracious to you;
therefore he will rise up to show you compassion.

When were the words you, we, our, us in all cases unless I missed some, which is totally possible. It's talking about God's elect/church/sheep/beloved because He already see us that way and when the prophets prophecy, an apostle write a letter and uses those words they are talking about the people of God. When I first recognized that it was a total blessing, because I was reading Romans 5:8 "God demonstrated His love towards us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Which is interesting because, John 3:16 ESV footnote translation says.
"For this is how God loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." He shows His love to the world by giving His Son, but He shows His love to us, in that while we are sinners, Jesus died for us, but for the world He gave His Son. Some say that because He gave His Son that, means in His death. But the Greek word "
δίδωμι" or "didōmi" means, to give, bestow, present, it has nothing to do with His death.
 
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Depleted

Guest
Can we talk about that letter "P"?

It's one I agree with but lots of folks don't.

I always thought it meant that God was the author of our salvation and he doesn't do half-baked. So once He adopts us, he will never disown or stop loving us.
.However he will chastens and correct every adopted child.
.if people aren't convicted of their sins and have a heart to want to change,then they aren't His kids.
Perseverance of the Saints. To me, that's the deep soil the seedlings grow in. God is the soil. He holds on to us, and we hold onto him.

But if/when we walk away, he'll horse-collar us with the ferocity he big-fish-bellied Jonah. He will get us back, until we aren't kicking and screaming. We must persevere, but he gives us that ability too.
 
May 8, 2017
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I think you complicate things too much.

It would be best if you all post specific Bible verse you are basing your view on.
I think I gave you the ability to uncomplicate what you think is complicated.

The whole Bible is about relationship and Father desiring to have it with everyone.

Rev 3.20 is a specific verse.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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I think I gave you the ability to uncomplicate what you think is complicated.

The whole Bible is about relationship and Father desiring to have it with everyone.

Rev 3.20 is a specific verse.
There are also verses about fear of God and service to God.

We must take all, not just Rev 3:20 and then say "it is not about service" or similar.

"Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor." 1Pt 2:17
 
May 8, 2017
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Do you have anything specific? I can imagine about 5 verses just from the top of my head that we are supposed to fear the Lord. And also that we must serve Him.

So whats wrong with it?
Fear is not terror, it is reverence for who is he is, not what he can do to us.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Do you have anything specific? I can imagine about 5 verses just from the top of my head that we are supposed to fear the Lord. And also that we must serve Him.

So whats wrong with it?
I know you didn't say terror here so I'm not accusing of that at all.

That being said the fear of the LORD does go beyond the over-generalized and curtailed definition of mere "reverence." Not that you are limiting fear of God to this at all in the above post.

But there are Scriptures that show there is a sense of terror in his saints while in His presence. So true Biblical fear does include the element of terror as well. Mere reverence in light of this is rather anemic and cut short as a definition, but then again we see a domesticated god too often presented as the one true God among those who profess to be believers. So it is fitting to the narrative to have an improper definition and application of this important issue.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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I know you didn't say terror here so I'm not accusing of that at all.

That being said the fear of the LORD does go beyond the over-generalized and curtailed definition of mere "reverence." Not that you are limiting fear of God to this at all in the above post.

But there are Scriptures that show there is a sense of terror in his saints while in His presence. So true Biblical fear does include the element of terror as well. Mere reverence in light of this is rather anemic and cut short as a definition, but then again we see a domesticated god too often presented as the one true God among those who profess to be believers. So it is fitting to the narrative to have an improper definition and application of this important issue.
I think that terror is what is left for unbelievers. In the moment we become the children of God, the fear of His magnificence, power etc stays, but the terror as such (something painful, without peace in our mind) goes away.

But this is just my point of view and we may be using words differently.