Calvinists,Im Asking...

[NoNameMcgee]

Scolded? Not even lol. Yeah I do have that right. By defending my position, I am showing them how their misrepresentation and lies are wrong. Do you not realize that this misrepresentation and lying about us has been constant on every thread we get on for a while now? What's your problem? I didn't start that crap and am getting pretty sick of the morons who dunno how to read simple sentences and turn around and lie about what I clearly said I didn't believe. I'm sick of this white-knighting by people who know it's wrong as well and won't take a stand but rather cower down behind those perpetuating it.

bro i cant claim to believe tulip
im still looking to God for answers to a couple of the statements i saw listed


but you were the first person to reach out to me on here

and showed nothin but love


im not mature (always room to grow)
im still less than 4 years into studies and the first two i probably put in less than 10 hours a week


but from what i can tell (which i am not claiming is a lot)
you love Jesus and seek God

please dont let these people get a rise out of you even if they are in the wrong


stay strong man


(i blew up and quit less than 10 days ago, after someone got a rise out of me.... had to make new account)

 

[Depleted]

Now OSAS is what would be the discussion with my Baptist friends.I dont believe this way but I understand better now what they are saying.If they believe people are elected then of course they cannot sin.

I wrote my answer down. And then I asked hubby, (who does get Reformed Theology better than I do), and something happened after that, so I got delayed in finishing this.

I'm going to give all three things as an answer:
1. My answer: Well, not really. Trump was elected. Think he stopped sinning? lol

Same thing with us. We're elected/chosen. We are the children of God. Adopted by the King of Kings. Don't we still act like little brats at times anyway? We still sin. We're just over the sin-nature, so we know we're sinning. It's no longer blindly sinning by nature.

Once elected though, God doesn't change his mind. Remember Jonah was elected. If we don't behave like we're supposed, God gets us there anyway.

I do believe OSAS, but I don't know if that's Reformed, or not. The big question after that needs to be asked though -- Are you really saved? King Saul seemed saved for a while. So did Judas. They seemed saved. Now it seems like they never were saved.

2. Hubby's answer: OSAS is a cheapened response for "Perseverance of the Saints." It's the Armenian's answer to what we're saying. We are saved, if we persevere. If we don't persevere, we weren't saved. Then he gave an example of someone in our family's belief. She said her grandmother was saved because she made the alter call at a Billy Graham Crusade. That's what saved her. Walking down to the front to be prayed over. But nothing changed for the rest of her life, so she wasn't saved.

He used something David said, (but it's a couple hours later, so can't remember it enough to quote him exactly.) David asked God where he could go to leave God, since even in the depths of Hades, God is. David couldn't escape God, so he persevered.

God changes us so much so that he has us persevere. If we don't, then God didn't change us.

3. The thing that interrupted this:
Not related to this at all, except PennEd (a fellow CCer) stopped by with his friend Rich. They're going to help us work on our house. The Lord called him to help us in this way, and wow! I really had some ideas on how they could help, but they have even more ideas.

He asked me in what way they could help, and I immediately thought about our front window. It's huge and falling apart. It's so bad, I think the only reason it's staying in is because of God's providence. But I didn't ask that one, because we have some idea how much it would cost to replace it, and way too much to ask. I really thought the only choice was replace it, but Rich (Ed's friend) thinks it can be fixed and repainted. I was just thinking of having them take old stuff out we can't lift. So, kind of like thinking someone was going to give us a used car that works, but being offered a new car. Much much bigger than I thought, and I was very excited over my thought.

Trying hard not to cry over this, (hubby is too), but what a wonderful God we serve!

 

[Depleted]

Ariel, I want to apologize here. The following sounds like I'm yelling at you. (Is that what you meant, Kayla, on the last thread? Oops. Sorry there too, then.)

It isn't yelling. It's a bunch of people coming along to tell us what's wrong with Calvinism, before even bothering to find out what it really is, others thinking copy/paste tells everyone everything they should know, and then saying what's wrong with it, and then an argument between three people. This was frustration, not yelling. So, sorry, because even as I read it, it sure sounded like yelling to me. Sorry about that.

Stop it! Just stop it! You don't know what hyper-Calvinist believe either. Just because non-Calvinists throw that term around doesn't suddenly make it mean something.

Again, this is Kayla's thread to learn what Calvinists believe. I am truly glad you're here learning too, but you have it in you thinking you already know what we believe, so you can teach the stuff.

I'll make you a deal. Stop using the word "hyper-Calvinist!" It is highly insulting. And, if you don't, expect me to have no problems making some kind of equally insulting word for what you believe and then keep calling you that!

I don't teach quantum physics because I wouldn't know what it was if I took a year to study it. In like kind, you do not know what Calvinism is by reading an article or two online about it. Just don't! I beg of you don't, because you are muddying the waters, not clearing it up!

That's been done enough on this forum!

 

[Depleted]

Relationship Vs. Religion and rules and steps and definitions and processes.

It is real easy to see the difference on this thread.

Some of you can have all your Religion and rules and steps and definitions and processes.

For me and my house, yeah, we will simply Serve the Lord.

It is very easy to tell the difference about what people believe on this thread. For instance, you're all about "I'm right, and you're wrong." You aren't serving God. You're making yourself feel better by lying about everyone else. The word is "haughty." It's unbecoming and has nothing to do with God any which way.

I don't recall Joshua or his family acting that way.

 

[Depleted]

Nothing in my statement was unChrist like so I'll just continue to contend for the faith, and contend against the wolves. And the liars.

Methinks you need some 1 Peter 4:15.

Really? Where did Christ belittle others and then defend himself, exactly? Certainly not in 1 Peter anything.

 

[preacher4truth]

Scolded? Not even lol. Yeah I do have that right. By defending my position, I am showing them how their misrepresentation and lies are wrong. Do you not realize that this misrepresentation and lying about us has been constant on every thread we get on for a while now? What's your problem? I didn't start that crap and am getting pretty sick of the morons who dunno how to read simple sentences and turn around and lie about what I clearly said I didn't believe. I'm sick of this white-knighting by people who know it's wrong as well and won't take a stand but rather cower down behind those perpetuating it.

What's her problem? That's a good question! Part of her problem is she thinks it's her right to defend others, AND herself in here, but it's not right for you to do so. As she stated she struggles with gossip which is a sign of those who are idle. Probably a lot of gossip going on in PM and them telling one another to attack others "for what they said". Misery loves company, and they do come in packs on here.

Her other problem is she likes to meddle in other peoples business when they are having within a thread a personal disagreement. She has to jump in and meddle, which is Biblically a fools task.

Here's the thing - busybody meddlers don't have anything going on, so they begin to meddle in others matters. That is the problem with Depleted. Life is "online" for some people.

Here is what Paul said about the idle:

2 Thessalonians 3:5ff May the Lord direct your hearts into God’s love and Christ’s perseverance. In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you,

The not living according to the teaching is accomplished when a person meddles. Maybe she will learn to MHOB and stay out of peoples personal business and obey Christ.

Bro, you've done nothing wrong as you know. Just keep sharing truth, and when one of the hypocrites come crying, lying, falsely accusing and attacking you for it, just thank God, and, of course, expose their hypocrisy.

 

[preacher4truth]

Really? Where did Christ belittle others and then defend himself, exactly? Certainly not in 1 Peter anything.

There you are bearing false witness and meddling.

Ariel, you or any other person comes bearing false witness to belittle and lie I'll call them on it, as I've done with Ariel and you in the past. Both of you are hypocrites in every sense of the word.

Calling someone out on their hypocrisy and false witness isn't belittling - it's being like Christ.

You need to read your Bible a little more, no, a lot more as your picture of Christ is bordering on political correctness, pragmatism, is erroneous and incomplete. Paul and Christ defended themselves against false witnesses and hypocrites in Scripture, but surely you don't read much and spend too much time pounding the keyboard to defend liars and meddle in others personal affairs with others.

Grow up, you're in your 60's, time to act like it.

(and all others take notice, Depleted isn't telling Ariel to stop defending herself. Hypocrite, LOL!!!!)

 

[Ariel82]

Ariel, I want to apologize here. The following sounds like I'm yelling at you. (Is that what you meant, Kayla, on the last thread? Oops. Sorry there too, then.)

It isn't yelling. It's a bunch of people coming along to tell us what's wrong with Calvinism, before even bothering to find out what it really is, others thinking copy/paste tells everyone everything they should know, and then saying what's wrong with it, and then an argument between three people. This was frustration, not yelling. So, sorry, because even as I read it, it sure sounded like yelling to me. Sorry about that.

Nah I love ya Lynn. But you should know me by now. I do a ton of research and I share it with folks who ask...maybe more info than they want.

Anyway notmyown gave me a Reformed site and he talked about guardrail that the Bible gives so you don't fall into the error of either. He uses the term and is respected by Calvinist so I figured it must mean there are some folks out there who believe it.

 

[Ariel82]

Hey! Dont leave yet,I still have questions.

I just logged back in...and find it unlikely for answers to come forward after scanning just the last few responses.

If you want to understand your friends beliefs, I don't think we can help because as you can see everyone has a different way of viewing at least one part of the Bible.

However I always like seeing what we agree upon. I know the differences are there and need to be acknowledged but I have found common ground is harder to find when people start getting offended and defensive.

 

[Ariel82]

Awesome testimony of how CC members do reach out and help one another Lynn.
.God is truly good.

I believe in the perseverance of the saints and monogerism. Folks just assume I support "free will" because I attend a Methodist church.

I do believe in a type of free will but it may not fit into the scarecrow folks want to burn.

I believe God gave us a means to choose good or evil and we can't blame God if we choose evil. He gives everyone a universal moral law to obey. He blesses this world with His providence and we should all be thankful for His love and grace to give us this. This He gives to the whole world and is why externally nonChristians can do what we call "good works" that show compassion and love.

However God's love is not like the world's love. Jesus says even the scribes and Pharisees love those who love them. Jesus called us to love our enemies and those who despitefully use us.

This love is alien to our world. This AGAPE love can only be give to others after we first receive it from God.

This type of love comes as a fruit of adding to our faith in Christ, virtue, knowledge, self control, perservance, brotherly kindness and finally AGAPE love.

It's only by His power and grace are we changed.

To be born again is more than being given adoption papers. It is being fundamentally changed in our hearts, minds and spirits.

Allowing the blind to see.

Have you ever had trouble with your vision?

Can you imagine being blind and then suddenly seeing the world around you in color?

I believe when we are born again, our spiritual eyes are open and we see the world (partially) as God does and learn how to see past us and our issues and problems to others and how God loves them and how He we wants us to love them and ourselves too.

 

[Ariel82]

Fyi P4T, depleted did tell me to stop and move my comments to another thread. So you are again ranting on shifting sand.

Want to stop attacking others and defending yourself and talk about what Calvinist believe instead?

 

[ForthAngel]

Fyi P4T, depleted did tell me to stop and move my comments to another thread. So you are again ranting on shifting sand.

Want to stop attacking others and defending yourself and talk about what Calvinist believe instead?

Looks like we'd all rather just talk about what everyone thinks Calvinists believe. Have at it.

 

[Ariel82]

Scolded? Not even lol. Yeah I do have that right. By defending my position, I am showing them how their misrepresentation and lies are wrong. Do you not realize that this misrepresentation and lying about us has been constant on every thread we get on for a while now?

Yeah I noticed but for a while everyone was doing good ignoring it.

Have you noticed it is typically the same people over and over again attacking?

Personally i didn't read anything non Calvinist had to say,because they obviously have a reading comprehension problem or lack respect for the OP.

What's your problem? I didn't start that crap and am getting pretty sick of the morons who dunno how to read simple sentences and turn around and lie about what I clearly said I didn't believe.

yeah...and this is anger and frustration talking...

I'm sick of this white-knighting by people who know it's wrong as well and won't take a stand but rather cower down behind those perpetuating it.

I stood up and said it was wrong, but Folks either ignore me or attack me for my efforts.

So instead I would ask to go back to the topic at hand and discuss what Calvinist believes. I know Kayla and I would like to know and see how different it is from what we believe through our own studies and prayers or have been taught at church.

I promise not to get defensive and call out the lies others say I believe, if you promise the same.

You are one of the few folks I respect enough to want to hear what you believe even if you are a Calvinist.

(yes the last was an intentional jab, because otherwise it would sound too sweet..blaah)

I haven't caught up on reading the thread so I guess I will go back to that.

 

[Ariel82]

Looks like we'd all rather just talk about what everyone thinks Calvinists believe. Have at it.

I have a short list for this thread...only Calvinist (or reformed folks who hold to TULIP) I have found are you, Marano, and Trifomus

I read Kayla and Depleted because she is the OP and she mentioned Lynn and her were having this discussion.

I think Lynn is reformed, not sure if she is Calvinist though.

Would it help if I apologize ForthAngel?

I probably should have let it slide, instead of commenting.

I haven't even gone into the other threads (beyond a quick reading of a few posts) or commented because they just became nasty.

The question I ask is...how would Jesus have us show love to one another?

 

[Ariel82]

I don't believe only the reformed will be in heaven, I believe all that will be in heave are the elect, so the ones who pass the gate quietly are part of the elect too.

See you, I can fellowship with.

 

[Ariel82]

So from the article Lynn posted..

TULIP and Reformed Theology: Unconditional Election

If God chooses sovereignly to bestow His grace on some sinners and withhold His grace from other sinners, is there any violation of justice in this? Do those who do not receive this gift receive something they do not deserve? Of course not. If God allows these sinners to perish, is He treating them unjustly? Of course not. One group receives grace; the other receives justice. No one receives injustice. Paul anticipates this protest: “Is there injustice on God’s part?” (Rom. 9:14a). He answers it with the most emphatic response he can muster. I prefer the translation, “God forbid” (v. 14b). Then he goes on to amplify this response: “For he says to Moses, ‘I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion’” (v. 15).

Do the other Calvinist agree or disagree with this reformed writer?

 

[preacher4truth]

Fyi P4T, depleted did tell me to stop and move my comments to another thread. So you are again ranting on shifting sand.

Want to stop attacking others and defending yourself and talk about what Calvinist believe instead?

Sure she did, I'm always apt to believe what a person who bears false witness has to say. I'll continue to defend myself from hypocrites like you who talk out both sides of their mouth and lie.

Exposing you for being a lying hypocrite isn't attacking any more than you bearing false witness on another and then attacking them through your straw man accusations.

See now how hypocritical you are?

I'll also continue to expose heretics who preach a false gospel, and expose those who embrace them, even if you're buddies with them and come to offer them support. It's biblical to do so, and, so am I.

You have no shame when you lie, hold double standards and come into a thread to rebuke those who stand for the truth. Wonder what it might mean when a person like you can lie, do these things and have no conscience about it?

Talk about what Calvinists believe? No, we'll just wait for you and others to tell us what we believe.

 

[Marano]

See you, I can fellowship with.

I go to a non reformed baptist church, the only point they accept is perseverance of the saints, so I know how it feels.

 

[Ariel82]

I go to a non reformed baptist church, the only point they accept is perseverance of the saints, so I know how it feels.

Can we talk about that letter "P"?

It's one I agree with but lots of folks don't.

I always thought it meant that God was the author of our salvation and he doesn't do half-baked. So once He adopts us, he will never disown or stop loving us.
.However he will chastens and correct every adopted child.
.if people aren't convicted of their sins and have a heart to want to change,then they aren't His kids.

 

[Ariel82]

P4T you seem to be a very angry man. Whatever false witness you believe I bore against you, I apologize.

I disagree with your analyze that Arminians espouse a Pelagian view and stated I believe it to be a lie, which upon reflect was wrong of me because it goes against Kayla's expressed request in her OP.

I also disagree when people claim that Arminians teach that the grace of God is not needed, because I know it's not what is being preached in "free will" churches.

If I have given the false impression that I was trying to "teach what Calvinism is", I apologize for that.

I will work better in phrasing my questions to be more obvious, instead of appearing to be statement of facts.

I state what I believe and what I think the articles folks have recommended to understand the reformed position state.

You are free to stand for your beliefs. Obviously no one is stopping you.

However is the name calling and accusations truly needed?

I came in this thread and made a simple request: everyone stop trying to say what others believe and listens and ask questions instead.

You took it as an attack, so you continue to attack.

I have no clue why you haven't listened to the Bible and given to God.

Do you not follow God's advise to "Not let the sun set upon your anger, give no place for the devil"?

Weeks ago I offended you by asking you if you ever taught the gospel. A few days later you posted a great video that did. I thought at the time we had made peace.
.you even called me "sister" was that then all just a lie?

Why do you get angry so easily?