Suicide instant hell?

[BenFTW]

So to you is the suicide in heaven or hell? The suicide who has placed their faith in Jesus but for some reason can't overcome.

Heaven, otherwise Christ failed in His mission to save His people from their sins. If a believer goes to Hell for a sin, then what penalty did Christ pay? None, they are paying it themselves. So, if a genuine true believer is struggling in this life, is not in the right state of mind(this having no weight in God's judgement), and so on, commits suicide, how then can God deny His Son's sacrifice that paid all of sin, once and for all?

It doesn't make sense to say that Jesus paid the penalty of our sins, then state that a specific sin leads people to Hell. The only "sin" that leads people to Hell is the rejection of Jesus Christ as the Son of God who died on the cross for our sins and resurrected on the third day for our justification. To reject this is to remain in condemnation, for those without Christ are already condemned.

 

[BillG]

Heaven, otherwise Christ failed in His mission to save His people from their sins. If a believer goes to Hell for a sin, then what penalty did Christ pay? None, they are paying it themselves. So, if a genuine true believer is struggling in this life, is not in the right state of mind(this having no weight in God's judgement), and so on, commits suicide, how then can God deny His Son's sacrifice that paid all of sin, once and for all?

It doesn't make sense to say that Jesus paid the penalty of our sins, then state that a specific sin leads people to Hell. The only "sin" that leads people to Hell is the rejection of Jesus Christ as the Son of God who died on the cross for our sins and resurrected on the third day for our justification. To reject this is to remain in condemnation, for those without Christ are already condemned.

With you and agree with you. Thanks for your wisdom.

 

[ArtsieSteph]

I think the biggest thing about suicide, on the sin spectrum, is control. You are taking you're own life, your own way. But the thing is...you're telling God He can't save you. He can't do it. And also you are His temple, and you are literally destroying it.

i have no blunt yes or no answer, but these are things to consider.

 

[Grace777x70]

Would people go to hell if they got sick and died? Suicide is a sickness of the mind so it is no different. The true Christian is born again and the Holy Spirit is one spirit with their spirit even if their mind is scrambled.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever. John 14:16. He is not a liar. He will be faithful to all those that have had a sickness in their thinking which caused them to have a wrong action.

Living by the flesh brings death in some form to all of us from the living of a homosexual lifestyle to the slandering of others in the body of Christ. They are in the same lists together.

Let's be speaking words of grace and hope to the families and friends of those that have suffered from this sickness of the mind.

 

[BenFTW]

With you and agree with you. Thanks for your wisdom.

I'll go with the humble "Glory to God." haha No seriously though, its the truth of His word so we are just simply being parrots of His wisdom.

 

[PrynceNY]

Heaven, otherwise Christ failed in His mission to save His people from their sins. If a believer goes to Hell for a sin, then what penalty did Christ pay? None, they are paying it themselves. So, if a genuine true believer is struggling in this life, is not in the right state of mind(this having no weight in God's judgement), and so on, commits suicide, how then can God deny His Son's sacrifice that paid all of sin, once and for all? It doesn't make sense to say that Jesus paid the penalty of our sins, then state that a specific sin leads people to Hell. The only "sin" that leads people to Hell is the rejection of Jesus Christ as the Son of God who died on the cross for our sins and resurrected on the third day for our justification. To reject this is to remain in condemnation, for those without Christ are already condemned.

God would've been mighty disappointed if Job resorted to suicide js

 

[BenFTW]

God would've been mighty disappointed if Job resorted to suicide js

No doubt, God wants us to choose life! He has plans and purposes that we are to fulfill and He doesn't want us cutting our lives short. That means even beyond suicide the ways in which we care for our temples. We have lives to live, purposes to fulfill, we shouldn't shorten our lives in any way. This includes diet and eating, right? Not to be restrictive but to consider that we know better when it comes to what we do to our bodies. Why shorten our lives by one year when in that year we could reach even one soul?

 

[G00WZ]

I just see it this way.. If my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, and i am not my own, I don't have the right to destroy it, and also what i would be destroying is sacred.

 

[Willie-T]

There are two problems in your post I'd like to address. Two concepts that cannot be factual or rather, true when confronted with the reality of Christ's atonement. First, and foremost, the idea that God decides to have mercy on someone, outside of Christ, so that they may be saved. This idea is an attempt to pretend that God in His sound mercy and judgement decides, "You know what? It was understandable given the situation so I'll save them." What does God's word say? None come to the Father except by whom? Jesus Christ.

The Gospel is plain, it is simple. Jesus is the savior. God doesn't save men outside of Christ, He saves them through faith. He doesn't save people at His whim, or in His present mercy (as if one day He is like "nope", but on another day He is like "sure.") He doesn't look at the alcoholic and say, "You know what? He had a rough childhood and now he is drinking away his sorrows. I'll excuse it." No, He looks at the sinner and says, "I love you. See what my Son has done on your behalf? I am yours and you are mine, if you believe in My Son who died on the cross for your sins and was raised on the third day for your justification you shall be saved." There is no whim or mercy that God extends in the realm of salvation outside of Christ.

As for suicide leading to Hell, here is a simple proposition. Is suicide a sin? If your answer is yes, then I ask you, did Christ's sacrifice pay for all sin? Did Jesus not pay for the sins of the world? Did Christ not shed His blood for the remission of sin (all of it)? So then what sin of this world can condemn a believer in Jesus Christ who has made our sins of scarlet as white as snow? If suicide leads believers to Hell, did Christ really pay the penalty for all sin?

God went completely outside the confines of existing Law that He, Himself, created when He showed merciful grace in Salvation. Should we, then, make that offering into just another variety of "Law", saying He is now constrained to only do something this "new" way?

 

[BenFTW]

There are two problems in your post I'd like to address. Two concepts that cannot be factual or rather, true when confronted with the reality of Christ's atonement. First, and foremost, the idea that God decides to have mercy on someone, outside of Christ, so that they may be saved. This idea is an attempt to pretend that God in His sound mercy and judgement decides, "You know what? It was understandable given the situation so I'll save them." What does God's word say? None come to the Father except by whom? Jesus Christ.

The Gospel is plain, it is simple. Jesus is the savior. God doesn't save men outside of Christ, He saves them through faith. He doesn't save people at His whim, or in His present mercy (as if one day He is like "nope", but on another day He is like "sure.") He doesn't look at the alcoholic and say, "You know what? He had a rough childhood and now he is drinking away his sorrows. I'll excuse it." No, He looks at the sinner and says, "I love you. See what my Son has done on your behalf? I am yours and you are mine, if you believe in My Son who died on the cross for your sins and was raised on the third day for your justification you shall be saved." There is no whim or mercy that God extends in the realm of salvation outside of Christ.

As for suicide leading to Hell, here is a simple proposition. Is suicide a sin? If your answer is yes, then I ask you, did Christ's sacrifice pay for all sin? Did Jesus not pay for the sins of the world? Did Christ not shed His blood for the remission of sin (all of it)? So then what sin of this world can condemn a believer in Jesus Christ who has made our sins of scarlet as white as snow? If suicide leads believers to Hell, did Christ really pay the penalty for all sin?

Blain, I did word this funny didn't I!? lol It does sound like I am speaking of a non-believer, but my point was to address the concept that God looks at a person, specifically a believer, and decides (at His whim) to have mercy upon them and save them. My issue with this is that God already has shown them mercy and they received that mercy in Jesus Christ, and through Him. So its not like God considers all things and is like, "Alright, you're saved my son." He looks at the heart and mouth, did they confess Christ, and did they believe in their heart? Did they believe the Gospel, believe in "My Son"?

Yes, all things will be considered for rewards but in terms of our justification there is no standing we have, no other foundation, than Christ. In whom have we placed faith? Jesus, the Son of God! God doesn't need to consider all things in order for you to be saved. There is but one condition, and that is faith in Jesus.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

its self murder...

if you love God self murder is a strange way to show it



Jesus can forgive murder sure

but seeing as how suicide would be the last thing you do... when would you turn to him?

and if you have.... why would you kill

 

[NoNameMcgee]

also want to add

if you give your life to protect others or die knowingly doing Gods work its different

sacrifice of Jesus biggest example


and samson too

 

[BenFTW]

God went completely outside the confines of existing Law that He, Himself, created when He showed merciful grace in Salvation. Should we, then, make that offering into just another variety of "Law", saying He is now constrained to only do something this "new" way?

Yes. There remains no more sacrifice for sins. Jesus is The Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Him. God is not a liar and He has stated clearly the means by which men will be saved and reconciled to Himself. Forgiveness is, or rather remission is, granted through the shedding of blood and Jesus is the Lamb that was slain. There is no forgiveness outside of Christ because He is the propitiation for the sins of the world. Christ is the only hope for humanity. There are no alternative options because there is a very systematic means by which remission occurs, shadowed in the Law and seen in Christ (Hebrews 10).

 

[pottersclay]

See I told ya to many grey areas. Now we have the mental disorder as the defense but what if someone is perfectly sane. Just over whelmed and depression,, hopeless.
As I said who or what can we judge by?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Once again, since no one answered my question, or may not have seen it: what about the ones who have no other choice? The ones who would rather suicide, rather than die a possibly even more horrendous death?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Once again, since no one answered my question, or may not have seen it: what about the ones who have no other choice? The ones who would rather suicide, rather than die a possibly even more horrendous death?

what do you mean?

no other choice?


like a saw film?


id face w.e. came in prayer


not murder myself expecting 0% chance of miracle

id rather someone else rack judgement on themselfs

than put some against me by sinning

 

[blue_ladybug]

To use a most gruesome example, the 9/11 jumpers. Would God rather that they hadn't jumped, and gotten disintegrated along with the buildings when they fell? Or would He understand that they chose how they were going to die, given the circumstances? Those people had 2 choices: jump or get destroyed along with the towers. If I had been there that day, I absolutely would have jumped. So my question is: how will God judge those people?

what do you mean?

no other choice?


like a saw film?


id face w.e. came in prayer


not murder myself expecting 0% chance of miracle

id rather someone else rack judgement on themselfs

than put some against me by sinning

 

[NoNameMcgee]

To use a most gruesome example, the 9/11 jumpers. Would God rather that they hadn't jumped, and gotten disintegrated along with the buildings when they fell? Or would He understand that they chose how they were going to die, given the circumstances? Those people had 2 choices: jump or get destroyed along with the towers. If I had been there that day, I absolutely would have jumped. So my question is: how will God judge those people?

its easy for me to say ohhh id do this or that


but what i think is right if i knew i was about to die

id start praying

i have during near car accidents
i imagine id do the same for other things

0% chance of me jumping

but maybe id have looked for a way out saw only fire

then prayed and told others Jesus can save us

if im ON fire

id imagine id be running around screamin in pain.... not jumping out a window but trying to stop the awful pain i was in not thinking about death as much as current suffering


having never been through that its impossible for me to say accurately what i WOULD do

just know i wouldnt kill myself

 

[NoNameMcgee]

To use a most gruesome example, the 9/11 jumpers. Would God rather that they hadn't jumped, and gotten disintegrated along with the buildings when they fell? Or would He understand that they chose how they were going to die, given the circumstances? Those people had 2 choices: jump or get destroyed along with the towers. If I had been there that day, I absolutely would have jumped. So my question is: how will God judge those people?

i guess i didnt answer your question though

i have noooooo clue how God would judge them

i know Daniel wasnt burned in the fire cause his faith

 

[Miri]

its self murder...

if you love God self murder is a strange way to show it



Jesus can forgive murder sure

but seeing as how suicide would be the last thing you do... when would you turn to him?

and if you have.... why would you kill

I think Blain was referring to born again Christians. It does happen to them also.

"self murder" I think it would have more to do with hating yourself or
your circumstances.

It can also be argued that other kinds of potential self murder include
being reckless, alcoholism, doing drugs or other activities which can
potentially shorten your life span. Suicide though is very specific
and tends to be due to depression, anxiety, mental health problems.
People in this state of mind are not thinking clearly.


One thing not mentioned in this thread is that it is Satan who goes around
like a roaring lion seeking to destroy.

By the way, Jesus was tempted to commit suicide in the wilderness.
Satan told him to jump.
Jesus knows what it is like to have suicidal thoughts.