Not By Works

[FranC]

So would you say that those that dont reconise that glorification comes after death are the cake taker and not us ?


Also why havent any of the die hard faith alone fans answered any clear truths on my other threads lately... is it because they hide be rocks and only come out when they have an argument that they know they can twist ?

Jimbo

Anybody that knows any amount of theology at all knows that glorification comes AFTER death. We are NOT going to be glorified on this earth. In fact, we are not going to be finished being sanctified on this earth. It's a process and I doubt many come to its conclusion while alive. Maybe some monks. But I know monks and they feel like sinners! And they pray more than anybody --- at least 8 hours a day and for the needs of the Whole world.

I'm not sure what a cake taker is. You could explain it to me. I don't even like the expression to tell you the truth. Sometimes when words like that are thrown around it makes for a bad atmosphere. For instance, I don't like being called a cake taker.

Faith alone fans have a difficult time because the New Testament is full of verses that say that we are to be obedient to God and that we are to follow His commands. Jesus made it into two commands: Love God and love your neighbor as yourself.
This DOES cover everything. But we ARE to follow it. So when they're faced with these verses, they can't defend themselves.

And, as I've said a couple of times already, this method of speaking is very confusing.
They say. You don't have to do good works --- but you DO have to do good works. It makes no sense.
Somehow they feel that by doing good works they are not under the grace of God. This is a big misunderstanding and they'll have to get there on their own.

Those that believe as you and I do are understanding everything correctly. It's important to know the difference between
Justification and Sanctification. My throat is dry talking about this so I'll stop.

Just keep doing what you're doing.
All is Ok.

 

[BillG]

In my book its a willfull sin not to repent from the heart to a brother..a bad works...

call it what you like denie etct..... it still means deny if you dont pay your bills on time..end of story..

Yes to not forgive/repent from the heart is a wilfull sin, just as gluttony is as gossip is.

To me the only sin that is willfull and will lead to eternal separation from God is rejecting Jesus.

with regards to repent from your heart to a brother and I am going to take it further your enemy, just a quick life experience for me.

Jimbo do you consider me a genuine believer? I'm hoping you say yes otherwise my point is useless.

My mum hated me with a passion from birth. Fell pregnant with me at 19, shameful for a Muslim family.

She kicked me out when I was 14 and I was fostered by a Christian couple.

I lived with them for 4 years. During this period my mum told the whole family I had AIDS.
After 6 months my foster dad tried every night for 4 years to try and sexually abuse me, after a short while it became apparent to my foster mum what was going on but she begged me not to tell the police. He had been in jail for sexual abuse to kids before. He promised to stop but didn't but I never mentioned it again to my foster mum

For a long long period of time I refused to forgive all of them.
I had so much pain, hurt, anger towards them but also towards me.

I thought of myself as a result of my experiences as a useless piece of crap, just something to wiped off ones shoes.
I believed God felt the same about me, in a way God only loved me because he had to and if I didn't do then he would wipe me of his shoes.

So as I said for a long long period of time I refused to forgive, in order to do so I would have to visit my pain.

Now with regard to my foster dad, (I still went at to visit the because I loved my foster mum and at other times I made excuses not to go) On once oaccassion I made my excuse .

A couple of days after that I came before God (very rare occasion as you can imagine) I felt God say to me, Bill let us go down and sort this out, you need to forgive, I said no, God asked me 3 times and 3 times I said no.

Then God said to me BILL WHAT PART OF US DO YOU NOT GET, I AM WITH YOU, I AM TAKING YOU NOW WILL YOU TRUST ME?

I said sorry God yes let us go.

Do you know what? I went, God led me through this process and I forgave him, 3 months later he fell very sick, prove of my forgiveness was that I went down when I got the call from the hospital, I held his hand whilst he was dying, I sorted out his estate when he died, it took a year.

That is repentance from ones heart, heartfelt and not mental assent.

Let us all and I mean all never judge someone who walks in unforgivness as we have no idea what is going on in their heart.

What changed for me was when God broke through my barriers and revealed to me that I am not a useless piece of crap, he loves me as much as he loves Jesus


Also so you know my mum and I have a genuine loving relationship.

Let us not write people because of external things, let's try to find what's going on in thier heart.

 

[FranC]

No but we do need to be saved daily from the clutches of evil which is the soul continuing to recieve salvation..


1 peter 1:9 9now that you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls. 1


you are recieving salvation of your souls daily..

if you slip up and become a repenter who doesnt repent from the heart you are dead and your soul will no longer continue to recieve salvation..

you have become a believer who show no fruits..

Your concept up above is said like this:

We were saved.
We are being saved.
We will be saved.

Salvation is continuous, as you say.

 

[FranC]

Daily works will not save you. They won't get you into heaven. I'm sorry you don't want to accept this truth, but it IS true but apparently you don't like being proven wrong.. Otherwise you wouldn't be getting so defensive. Someday when (IF) you get to heaven, Jesus will ask you "why did you believe your works would save you? It was ME who saved you"..

Blue,

WHY do you tell Jimbo IF he gets to heaven?

Someday when (IF) you get to heaven

First of all, it's a terrible thing to say. So many gods around here who like to wonder who is saved and who isn't.
I DISAGREE with you, would it be right for me to wonder if you're saved???

Second of all, I truly doubt Jesus would ask anyone if they thought their works would get them to heaven.

MAKE UP YOUR MIND.
ARE WE DO DO WORKS OR NOT??

A simple YES or NO will suffice.

Just remember Mathew 7:19 and
Romans 13:7-10
Romans 11:22 is not bad either.

 

[blue_ladybug]

You sure get confused easily. We are to do works. But not for the purpose of gaining salvation or keeping salvation. That is NOT why we're commanded to do works.. We are commanded to do works for the purpose of showing God's love to others. It's a pretty simple concept to understand, really.

YOU never said it _Bill.
But some here have. A reason why I was so upset Yesterday.
I do respond to these people and will continue to do so.
If believing in Jesus and doing what He told me to do is sending me to hell --- what is left to say?

I'm signing out of here, but I would like to say this again...

If some new Christian were reading along, here's what he'd hear...:

"We do not have to do good works"

" They do not save us. but they are evidence of our faith, a result of our faith. So we do do good works."

It sounds like:
We do not have to do works.
But we do have to do works.

It sounds very confusing.

What I like to say is this:

Only God can save us by accepting the sacrifice of His Son who died for us.
From that moment till we die, we must be members of the Kingdom of God and do God's works here on earth. It's a cooperatve effort.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I don't see what the problem is.
WHATEVER the reason is for doing WORKS,
THEY MUST BE DONE.

Jesus demanded it.
God requires us to obey.
There's no way around that.
God has not changed.
Only the METHOD by which we can keep God's laws has changed.

That's it.
It's getting late here.
God bless you Bill.


(this was aimed more at those reading along)

 

[JIMBO43]

must watch righ now angus is witnessing to a nation

https://www.tbnuk.org/live-streaming

 

[BillG]

he who follows must also be ready to die for Jesus... but only in self defence...

So why did Jesus rebuke Peter?

John 18:10-11


Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
So Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?”

But also are there any verses in the N.T. beyond the Gosples where they used swords to defend themselves?

The only sword they had was

Ephesians 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;

That was their defence that was their sword. The word of God.

John 1:1-5


The Gospel According to
JOHN
Chapter 1
The Eternal Word
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I told him "if" because what he believes about daily salvation is wrong..


Secondly, for the umpteenth time, we are to do works, BUT NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF GAINING OR KEEPING SALVATION.. Why can you not understand that?


Lastly, I DO think Jesus will ask us why we thought our works would save us, when HE has ALREADY saved us. WORKS DO NOT SAVE US.

Blue,

WHY do you tell Jimbo IF he gets to heaven?

Someday when (IF) you get to heaven

First of all, it's a terrible thing to say. So many gods around here who like to wonder who is saved and who isn't.
I DISAGREE with you, would it be right for me to wonder if you're saved???

Second of all, I truly doubt Jesus would ask anyone if they thought their works would get them to heaven.

MAKE UP YOUR MIND.
ARE WE DO DO WORKS OR NOT??

A simple YES or NO will suffice.

Just remember Mathew 7:19 and
Romans 13:7-10
Romans 11:22 is not bad either.

 

[JIMBO43]

just refresh page when it cuts out

 

[blue_ladybug]

Works do not, cannot and will not save us. If you think they will, you are wrong. Gravely in error wrong.

 

[FranC]

Repentance is from God - He grants it - It is not something that we produce.

All these scriptures show this truth. Acts 5:31 ; Acts 11:18 ; 2 Tim. 2:25

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

2 Timothy 2:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,

[SUP]25 [/SUP] with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,


It is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance. Rom. 2:4

Repentance is not a work that we do by our own will-power or human effort. It's a product of the grace and love of God being manifested to us when we hear of Christ and all that He has done.

See Grace,

This is why posting verses is ok, and it's good to answer to them, but if you don't study theology what good is it?
I could give you many verses that prove MAN has to repent.

I mean, think of it HOW COULD GOD REPENT FOR YOU.
If GOD gives us repentance, that means HE'S responsible for those who don't repent.

So, here's some scripture for you... Is yours right or is mine right?

Acts 17:30 God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent. (who is doing the repenting?)

2 Peter 3:9 God wishes none to perish but to come to repentance. (If God is doing the repenting, why does He have to wish it)

Mark 1:15 Jesus says: Repent and believe in the gospel. (why say it if HE could do it)

Acts 2:38 Peter says: Repent and be baptized... (again, an order to repent)


GOD DOES NOT DO EVERYTHING FOR US.
Some things WE get to do to show God that we WANT HIM.
We aren't puppets just sitting around waiting for God TO DO EVERYTHING FOR US.

Theology. The study of God.
And we speak of verses being in context...

 

[FranC]

I told him "if" because what he believes about daily salvation is wrong..


Secondly, for the umpteenth time, we are to do works, BUT NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF GAINING OR KEEPING SALVATION.. Why can you not understand that?


Lastly, I DO think Jesus will ask us why we thought our works would save us, when HE has ALREADY saved us. WORKS DO NOT SAVE US.

So, dear Blue,

Its' WHAT you believe that saves you

NOT

WHO you believe.

Interesting. When YOU are the one Always saying about how Jesus just does EVERYTHING for us.

Especially since you're such a big expert in declaring how right YOU are and how wrong some Others are.
Here's the question again:


Oh. and BTW, you didn't answer my question. This happens here it seems. I asked someone else a question they never answered.



ARE WE TO DO WORKS OR NOT?

Please answer with a YES or NO.

Thanks.

 

[Grace777x70]

See Grace,

This is why posting verses is ok, and it's good to answer to them, but if you don't study theology what good is it?
I could give you many verses that prove MAN has to repent.

I mean, think of it HOW COULD GOD REPENT FOR YOU.
If GOD gives us repentance, that means HE'S responsible for those who don't repent.

So, here's some scripture for you... Is yours right or is mine right?

Acts 17:30 God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent. (who is doing the repenting?)

2 Peter 3:9 God wishes none to perish but to come to repentance. (If God is doing the repenting, why does He have to wish it)

Mark 1:15 Jesus says: Repent and believe in the gospel. (why say it if HE could do it)

Acts 2:38 Peter says: Repent and be baptized... (again, an order to repent)


GOD DOES NOT DO EVERYTHING FOR US.
Some things WE get to do to show God that we WANT HIM.
We aren't puppets just sitting around waiting for God TO DO EVERYTHING FOR US.

Theology. The study of God.
And we speak of verses being in context...

You are completely missing the whole point and obviously not understanding what is really being said. No place is it said by anyone that I have seen that we don't "repent" or that we lay around and do nothing.

I will say this again as I have for now about the 20th time. Hopefully it will be a blessing to someone.

Good works that the Lord does in and through us as we participate in these with Him are a fruit of His life being manifested - they do NOT create nor maintain salvation as in being one spirit with the Lord.

Good works are done because we are already saved - they do not create salvation.

I don't chafe at the term "our doing" as in doing good works because it is a response to the life of God in us.

We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.

Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.

Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.

I won't speak for the others but as far as works or fruit go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works/fruit" of a believer.

Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15

The life of the Vine supplies the "sap"needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action. - we are fighting the good fight of faith

Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

There is a vast difference between "us" doing things and the Lord doing things through and in us.

We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

 

[BillG]

YOU never said it _Bill.
But some here have. A reason why I was so upset Yesterday.
I do respond to these people and will continue to do so.
If believing in Jesus and doing what He told me to do is sending me to hell --- what is left to say?

I'm signing out of here, but I would like to say this again...

If some new Christian were reading along, here's what he'd hear...:

"We do not have to do good works"

" They do not save us. but they are evidence of our faith, a result of our faith. So we do do good works."

It sounds like:
We do not have to do works.
But we do have to do works.

It sounds very confusing.

What I like to say is this:

Only God can save us by accepting the sacrifice of His Son who died for us.
From that moment till we die, we must be members of the Kingdom of God and do God's works here on earth. It's a cooperatve effort.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I don't see what the problem is.
WHATEVER the reason is for doing WORKS,
THEY MUST BE DONE.

Jesus demanded it.
God requires us to obey.
There's no way around that.
God has not changed.
Only the METHOD by which we can keep God's laws has changed.

That's it.
It's getting late here.
God bless you Bill.


(this was aimed more at those reading along)

With you on this.

I suppose it's how it's explained.

For me this is the way I look at it.

God gave the law of Moses, given before they entered the promised land. The laws given for me are the divine nature of God.

So God is saying this how I expect you to be, which is the opposite of those in the land I will give you. So a standard has been set and that's Gods standard.

Jesus summed up the whole 10 with

Matthew 22:37-39


Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

There is no denying that Jesus commands this.

its intersting, if you notice what is the crux on the above? To me it is LOVE.

We love God, why? Because he first loved us.

To me in a sense it's like God is saying "I love you, now you know it, now I want you to spread the love"

I have led a few to Christ who seem to think that they are nice people and do good, things like put money in a charity box, don't do this or that, then they say, surely God will forgive me (if there is one) when I meet him.

When I dig deeper they have come to the realisation "Wow I have nothing to offer and what I thought I had is useless"

But now they have a knowledge of who God really is, the attitude has changed. It's "Wow God loves me as I am, has forgiven me, Jesus died for me"

It goes from being "how can you judge me when I do good things and I deserve to be in heaven to wow I want to be like you, not to impress you but because you impress me and I love you"

I still think we do not have to good works to be saved, wrong reasoning with wrong results.
We do works for the right reasons and that to me is summed in the verses given above. All out of love.

 

[FranC]

You are completely missing the whole point and obviously not understanding what is really being said. No place is it said by anyone that I have seen that we don't "repent" or that we lay around and do nothing.

I will say this again as I have for now about the 20th time. Hopefully it will be a blessing to someone.

Good works that the Lord does in and through us as we participate in these with Him are a fruit of His life being manifested - they do NOT create nor maintain salvation as in being one spirit with the Lord.

Good works are done because we are already saved - they do not create salvation.

I don't chafe at the term "our doing" as in doing good works because it is a response to the life of God in us.

We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.

Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.

Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.

I won't speak for the others but as far as works or fruit go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works/fruit" of a believer.

Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15

The life of the Vine supplies the "sap"needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action. - we are fighting the good fight of faith

Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

There is a vast difference between "us" doing things and the Lord doing things through and in us.

We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

For the sake of those reading along who must be totally confused unless they're quasi theologians....


Just answer this:

ARE WE TO DO WORKS OR NOT?


Please answer with a simple YES or NO.

(I would have no difficulty in answering this question or any other question VERY CLEARLY, let's see if YOU can)

 

[PeterJens]

I wonder. Maybe the problem is not being direct enough.

We are to be like Jesus.

Either you believe this or not.
Paul believed it and wrote about it in Ephesians.

And this is the question, do you regard yourself too lost to believe you can grow into
the maturity of Christ. Jesus says it is not hard, you just need to believe and follow.
This has been my question. Is this what Paul is saying? Who disagrees and why?

Cop out city, is the people, and the accusations are it is a lie to believe Paul, it only
leads to legalism, so all is lawlessness.

Now this is the question. And the problem is, to believe it is evil means the book of
life becomes silent on this, because the words are too hard. But this is why it takes
faith and love, just to hear the good news. Sin conquered, life free.

 

[FranC]

You are completely missing the whole point and obviously not understanding what is really being said. No place is it said by anyone that I have seen that we don't "repent" or that we lay around and do nothing.

I will say this again as I have for now about the 20th time. Hopefully it will be a blessing to someone.

Good works that the Lord does in and through us as we participate in these with Him are a fruit of His life being manifested - they do NOT create nor maintain salvation as in being one spirit with the Lord.

Good works are done because we are already saved - they do not create salvation.

I don't chafe at the term "our doing" as in doing good works because it is a response to the life of God in us.

We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.

Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.

Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.

I won't speak for the others but as far as works or fruit go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works/fruit" of a believer.

Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15

The life of the Vine supplies the "sap"needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action. - we are fighting the good fight of faith

Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

There is a vast difference between "us" doing things and the Lord doing things through and in us.

We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

BTW,
I don't miss points and I happen to understand things really well.

It's just that I don't agree with your explanation of sanctification, I prefer to agree with theologians and mainline denominations.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I could believe that satan saves us, but I would be dangerously wrong. And I have answered your question many times, YES we are to do works. BUT NOT TO KEEP SALVATION. You have a one-track mind when it comes to that second part..


And I'm no expert. In anything.. lol

To reiterate, YES WE'RE TO DO WORKS.

BUT WE ARE NOT TO DO THEM TO KEEP SALVATION.

So, dear Blue,

Its' WHAT you believe that saves you

NOT

WHO you believe.

Interesting. When YOU are the one Always saying about how Jesus just does EVERYTHING for us.

Especially since you're such a big expert in declaring how right YOU are and how wrong some Others are.
Here's the question again:


Oh. and BTW, you didn't answer my question. This happens here it seems. I asked someone else a question they never answered.



ARE WE TO DO WORKS OR NOT?

Please answer with a YES or NO.

Thanks.

 

[stonesoffire]

Fran

It would help you greatly if you looked at the word "do" in greek.

We of the Divine Spirit of God..will do His works.

 

[blue_ladybug]

No offense, but you DO miss points rather frequently. Like the point of not doing works solely for the hope of keeping salvation. Our salvation is NOT contingent upon the works we do. The works we do, are to show love for God and each other. But our works are NOT necessary for keeping salvation.

BTW,
I don't miss points and I happen to understand things really well.

It's just that I don't agree with your explanation of sanctification, I prefer to agree with theologians and mainline denominations.