Not By Works

[FranC]

Amen Blue....a present continuing result from a PAST COMPLETED ACTION.....now that is biblical!

Did you ever read Romans 14 and 15?
I posted it in Grace's answer up above.

Would you care to explain
John 3:36

John says we are to obey the Son. Why do you think he said this?
He said that those who DO NOT OBEY the son shall see the wrath of God.

John 3:36New American Standard Bible (NASB)

36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not [a]obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”


Instead of speaking to Others to encourage yourself and making nasty remarks
Romans 14:19

Why not speak to what the bible says.
Like most here do, except you.

 

[blue_ladybug]

You've asked that last question a gazillion times. And it's been answered a gazillion times.


It's not an entirely yes or no question. There are caveats attached. YES, we are to obey. But NO, we are NOT to do works for the express purpose of gaining salvation.. The door you hold open at the store for a disabled person, or the meal you buy for a homeless person, will not keep your salvation for you.

You want to hear that we are to do works to gain salvation, and keep salvation. You have a one track mind when it comes to doing or not doing works. You don't seem to understand that if you do works in the HOPE of keeping salvation, you are doing them for the wrong reason.

Dcon
Christ finished HIS work.
When He said "it is finsihed" He meant the sacrifice for salvation. He meant what God had intended from the beginning. HIS work is finsihed.

Yours continues. Yours is NOT finished. The Holy Spirit, whom Jesus sent when He ascended, will help you with the new life you have in Christ, but you are required to obey God. God never said not to obey Him.

Could you find anywhere in the N.T. where Jesus said that we are to do nothing but just believe in Him? And while you're at it, because I know the verse you're going to post, could you please explain what believe means. You must be good in the Greek.
What does believe mean in the Greek? I've asked before but you never answer.

Youre works DO embellish. Are you under sanctification or not? If you are, it's your works that please God.

Explain John 3:36 to me.

John 3:36 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not [a]obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

So, the simple question (to which I cannot get a simple answer) is:

Are we to obey or not?
Can I get a Yes or No?

 

[FranC]

To avoid any misunderstanding, can you confirm who you're referring to as "those who love the Lord"?

I ask because one can profess to be a christian, have a zeal, and profess to love the Lord, but not actually be IN Christ, as is evidenced by the scriptures that tell us on judgment day many religious people will say "Lord, Lord"... but He will say He never knew any of them. They professed to be christians, but were never truly saved.

Romans 8:1: "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus"

Those who are IN Christ are the ones that are no longer condemned.

Only bringing this up to avoid any misunderstanding.

Here's my answer:

Those who LOVE THE LORD
ARE IN CHRIST.

Can't be any plainer.

The problem here is that GOD makes the rules...

Not anybody on this thread.

 

[blue_ladybug]

You DON'T believe in eternal salvation?!!!

No wonder you're so confused.. LOL

Just what do you think Jesus died on the cross for? Our EARTHLY salvation? NOPE. He died so that we may have eternal life. Read John 3:16..

And exactly HOW is eternal salvation an "unbiblical concept"?

Ah. So you're also a believer of eternal salvation.
A very UNBIBLICAL concept.
No wonder you feel like you don't have to do anything at all and all the work is already done for you.

No wonder you criticize everyone who does not agree with you.
You feel like there might be danger and you fight the feeling all the way.

You should listen to your consciense.
Jesus and all the Writers require works...

And if you understood what sanctification is, you would not have made the comments above as to whether I believe in works
for attaining OR keeping salvation. You would know the answer.

You could still try:

Are we required to do good works?
Yes or No.

 

[FranC]

I would not waste my breath or time....."workers for" will ride that horse straight to the pit after being placed into the plenteous in number grouping that go before Jesus boasting of their works....Galatians is clear....fools and bewitched<--- applied u to all that blend faith and works for salvation or to remain saved!.....no need to cast your pearls.....

You're being God again.
Wasn't this the sin of Adam? He wanted to be LIKE God? I believe you think you ARE God.

So, I'm going to the pit. Would that be hell?

Interesting concepts you have.
Those who love Jesus and are doing WHAT HE SAID TO DO are going to the pit.

YOU, on the other hand, who does nothing but divide the brethren, must be surely going straight to God, since you DO NOT BELIEVE YOU SHOULD DO WHAT JESUS WANTS YOU TO DO.

And one of those things is to LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.
He specifically gave this command.
Mathew 22:37-40

Also, check out: John 14:15

Not much love shown by you.

This is the problem with those that believe in cheap grace, those that believe as you do --- that no works are necessary,
they DO NOT OBEY what Jesus told them to do because they feel ALL THE WORK has already been done for them.

I suggest you go through the entire New Testament again, but with an open mind this time.

 

[FranC]

You've asked that last question a gazillion times. And it's been answered a gazillion times.


It's not an entirely yes or no question. There are caveats attached. YES, we are to obey. But NO, we are NOT to do works for the express purpose of gaining salvation.. The door you hold open at the store for a disabled person, or the meal you buy for a homeless person, will not keep your salvation for you.

You want to hear that we are to do works to gain salvation, and keep salvation. You have a one track mind when it comes to doing or not doing works. You don't seem to understand that if you do works in the HOPE of keeping salvation, you are doing them for the wrong reason.

You have a one-track mind too Blue.

I'd like an answer from Dcon.

 

[FranC]

It's ironic we grace lovers that are supposed to love sinning so much are the ones that say that malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ is just like living a homosexual lifestyle - in that it is sinning.

They are all works of the flesh and in the same lists together. They all bring destruction of some sort to us while on this earth.

go figure eh?....Religion is just so stupid!

The non-religious are really smart Grace.
Not stupid like the religious.

Funny that it's the non-religious that throw all the insults around.
I don't see any of the "religious" throwing insults around.

THE TREE IS KNOWS BY ITS FRUIT.

 

[blue_ladybug]

NO ONE here has said we don't have to do good works..

YOU are the one making that assumption. :/

Works have nothing to do with keeping salvation.

Works have EVERYTHING to do with showing God's love to others.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I'm not the one who keeps insisting that my works will save me. That would be you.. I KNOW that works don't save me..

You have a one-track mind too Blue.

I'd like an answer from Dcon.

 

[FranC]

Amen Katy....and the predominant characteristics of the "plenteous in number" that get cast from the presence of Jesus are two fold....

a. They claim to know Jesus
b. They boast of works as proof

The same thing the "workers for" claim and push.....not acknowledging the truth that Paul calls all who blend faith and works for salvation fools and bewitched into a false gospel that has no power to save nor keep saved......

I pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to Save those who BELIEVE <---NO WORKS LISTED

Now watch the cake takers yank James out of context to push a false worling for dogma.....tragically I might add!

What's the tragedy? I'm following God's laws again?

Are you being God again?

What Katy says above is one of the most rediculous things I've EVER heard.

She says:
I ask because one can profess to be a christian, have a zeal, and profess to love the Lord, but not actually be IN Christ,

One can
profess to be a Christian
have zeal
and profess to love the Lord

but not actually be IN Christ.

I don't know. I'm stupid as Grace said, but that sure sounds llike A CHRISTIAN to me.
I'm REALLY GLAD no one here makes up the rules, but our great God does.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Why? He's gonna give you the same exact answer that I did. That our works do not save us, no matter how many we do...

You have a one-track mind too Blue.

I'd like an answer from Dcon.

 

[FranC]

I see the confusion concerning sanctification is still blinding some....Sanctification is DUAL IN APPLICATION...Hebrews is clear and uses Sanctified in a past tense and is applied POSITONALLY to a believer who has been SAVED, JUSTIFIED, SEALED IN CHRIST based upon faith.......after this comes the DAILY PROCESS OF SANCTIFICATION IN OUR PHYSICAL LIVES....this is an ongoing process which can be facillitated and or stunted based upon faithful obedience to the word or a lack thereof as one grows and matures....the LATTER has no bearing on the first application of the word as applied unto a believer who has been saved, justified, sealed and sanctified POSITIONALLY in Christ dia faith!

Maybe you could stop reading the verses you like for just a little while
and go learn some theology.
You went to seminary?

You missed the Sanctification class?
Yes. I believe you did.

 

[PennEd]

You're being God again.
Wasn't this the sin of Adam? He wanted to be LIKE God? I believe you think you ARE God.

So, I'm going to the pit. Would that be hell?

Interesting concepts you have.
Those who love Jesus and are doing WHAT HE SAID TO DO are going to the pit.

YOU, on the other hand, who does nothing but divide the brethren, must be surely going straight to God, since you DO NOT BELIEVE YOU SHOULD DO WHAT JESUS WANTS YOU TO DO.

And one of those things is to LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.
He specifically gave this command.
Mathew 22:37-40

Also, check out: John 14:15

Not much love shown by you.

This is the problem with those that believe in cheap grace, those that believe as you do --- that no works are necessary,
they DO NOT OBEY what Jesus told them to do because they feel ALL THE WORK has already been done for them.

I suggest you go through the entire New Testament again, but with an open mind this time.

We have a clear Romans 3:8 situation going on here:

And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

The good news Fran is that you can still accept the free and completed work of Jesus Christ for Salvation. I pray your heart isn't totally hardened to that truth. In Jesus Name.

 

[FranC]

Amen.....Blue fades back, shoots and scores from the three point line........another excellent bombing run on the workers for.........boooooooooommmmmm!

You're so sweet...
Just like God wants you to be.
Mathew 5:5

 

[blue_ladybug]

Charles Manson could profess to be a Christian, have zeal and say he loves the Lord. BUT we all know how evil he is, so it would be highly unlikely that he'd ever become a Christian, because he is the epitome of evil incarnate..

Read the verse that says, "not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will know me".

What's the tragedy? I'm following God's laws again?

Are you being God again?

What Katy says above is one of the most rediculous things I've EVER heard.

She says:
I ask because one can profess to be a christian, have a zeal, and profess to love the Lord, but not actually be IN Christ,

One can
profess to be a Christian
have zeal
and profess to love the Lord

but not actually be IN Christ.

I don't know. I'm stupid as Grace said, but that sure sounds llike A CHRISTIAN to me.
I'm REALLY GLAD no one here makes up the rules, but our great God does.

 

[FranC]

Almost all so called Christian denominations can be lumped into the three listed.....most push a faith blended with works gospel of a different kind......my brother had the opportunity to witness to two men who were dying once....one a charsimatic that believed in his works and another who had never even graced the doors of a church building....the latter accepted Jesus by faith and went out peacefully....the 1st went out rough while arguing his standing based upon works..

Jesus was clear.....the number will be plenteous that comes before him boasting of works and claiming Jesus as Lord....just as ALL WORKERS FOR DO......

My bible is clear...works do not save, keep saved or help one be saved......

Faith and faith alone SAVES.....works or fruit come from the salvation one already possess by genuine faith......!

See.
You say works are not necessary and create self-righeousness.
THEN you say that you work.

THIS IS MOST CONFUSING...
You really should get your ideas straight.

ARE WE TO DO GOOD WORKS OR NOT???
Mathew 7:19

 

[FranC]

Amen....this needs to be continually at the forefront....Christianity can be divided into two groups at the end of the day....

a. Those who teach a fatih based salvation and that works and fruit are the result of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Jesus (The minority)

b. Those who blend faith and works as a means of getting, keeping or embellishing salvation (The majority)

One group is right...the other is not....and eternity is at stake......!

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have DONE, but according to his mercy has HE SAVED US.

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE

Paul was clear.....faith plus works for is false, double cursed and has no power to save.....and exactly why the number will be plenteous that comes before Jesus boasting of their works while calling Jesus Lord....only to be cast as LOST

Galatians 1 and 3

Are you ever going to explain what the word BELIEVE means since so much depends on this?

 

[FranC]

It is not that difficult.....unless you interject works and self.....grace or works....one or the other....one saves the other leads to the plenteous in number that get cast into hell because they trusted self over Jesus.....!

You're being God again.
Knowing who is saved and who is not.

Mathew 7:1-5

 

[blue_ladybug]

He's obviously not online at the moment. Or is afk...

 

[blue_ladybug]

Works are not necessary TO GAIN SALVATION..

They MUST be done, but NOT to KEEP salvation.

How blind and dense can a person be not to understand this simple concept?!

See.
You say works are not necessary and create self-righeousness.
THEN you say that you work.

THIS IS MOST CONFUSING...
You really should get your ideas straight.

ARE WE TO DO GOOD WORKS OR NOT???
Mathew 7:19