Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
see, here is the thing- I still sin, you still sin, every person on earth sins. so you have not resolved and worked through sin. not true. now have you and I and every other believer worked through certain sins? yes. moved past all sin? no

can you speak truth and say this? I have twice now.
YOU MEAN...
People SIN...

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

REALLY???????????????????

Wow.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
they never "obtained God." Never were born again

] your life is worthless if Jesus doesn't accept you..."if ye be not made perfect" not "if you don't make yourself perfect" but if Jesus doesn't make you perfect and gives you a resurrected body.

] yep and Augustine answered him..fyi, he spoke of perseverance of saints long before Calvin was ever born.

] again I believe Irenaeus is a heretic.

]
Water baptism or Holy spirit baptism?
Dontcha just love Augustine?
He said he figured out where evil came from.
When he was much older and wiser, he admitted that we can't know.

He spoke of predestination.
NOT double predestination.

If he was wrong about other things, he might be wrong about this too.

You like to believe HIM instead of all the Others I gave you because you AGREE with him.

So, you believe YOU didn't decide to become a believer, but God chose you?
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
they never "obtained God." Never were born again

] your life is worthless if Jesus doesn't accept you..."if ye be not made perfect" not "if you don't make yourself perfect" but if Jesus doesn't make you perfect and gives you a resurrected body.

] yep and Augustine answered him..fyi, he spoke of perseverance of saints long before Calvin was ever born.

] again I believe Irenaeus is a heretic.

]
Water baptism or Holy spirit baptism?
P.S.
You seem to be an expert in Church history.
Water baptism or spirit baptism???
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
Matt 7 the summary of the sermon on the mount.
What is the message? Do lots of things and not the things that lead to death.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!
Matt 7:23

The whole sermon on the mount is behavioural commands. Do this, do not do that.
It is not about opinion or options, but what Jesus expects in His followers.

Now I find it odd, when this is as plain as day the discussion is about those who trust
in Christ verses those who follow the commands or attempt to.

It is odd because we are called to do both. Now in all our ups and downs there will be
variations in this walk. Jesus is very clear, those who obey His commands are His friends.

And why would we not obey, to love those we meet, to love our enemies, to feel and see
the struggles of our humanity and how we are blessed in all we do.

So let us encourage one another to believe in Christ and follow, because there is not other way.
"The whole sermon on the mount is behavioural commands. Do this, do not do that.
It is not about opinion or options, but what Jesus expects in His followers."

this is why the gog labels them the law of moses and omits thier authority because Jesus is so clearly teaching How we are to act as His people. even though its not at all even similar to the Law of moses. teachers like paul ellis, joseph prince and the Like have taught that the gospel ministry of Jesus doesnt apply, only those things you find that leaves no condition upon your own actions. its very deceptive and elaborate explainations but you find not a single place in scripture that validates removing one word Of Jesus from Christianity. Because Jesus words are Christianity, behavior, serious warnings all the grace and belief scriptures, everything Jesus said is how it is, thats what so many have issue with.

because when a greedy person sees what Jesus says...they dont want it to be true. or a person who follows Lust sees what Jesus says, they dont want it to be true. or a person who is prone to violence and retaliation sees what Jesus says, they dont want it to be true ect. Jesus will either cause rejection of Him, or acceptance of Him through His word. He says as much when speaking how He was not bringing peace but a sword to divide. those who accept His blood and His word together will find victory, those who refuse His word will find judgement.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.
1 Thess 2:10

Was Paul walking pleasingly before God?
What I am saying and believe God is calling us to is to walk like Paul walked as he
followed Christ.

The problem with unbelief that the cross brings life through the Spirit, is what is
the point of walking in the ways of Jesus, if all are compromised. Your theology
implies one small failure, you fail in everything. Jesus calls us to grow into the
vision we have of him, though we stumble and it takes time, this is the path.

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
Eph 1:4

Does this not speak to your heart? This is Gods word, not mine.
You're sooooo patient.
I admire you.
I'm a girl
I lose my patience.
Just like some here.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
it is not a point of view peter, it is REALITY. you see, since God is all knowing, why would I attempt to deceive and convince him that I walk the walk, and do not sin, or hardly ever sin, while this is NOT TRUE.

yes, the Bible speaks to my heart. but, I also speak truth to myself, and to God. the truth for all of us is , we all still miss the mark, not meet the standards, know to do good and do it in every moment of the day. I just tell the truth about it. you refuse to see truth. that is on you.
WHAT are you talking about?
I think you get left back here at the bakery.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
Hi Fran,

Actually the scriptures being God's word make that call.

As Dan said and he's quoting scripture, there's only one way and that one way to our Heavenly Father is through His Son, Jesus Christ who's name means salvation.

Surely you realize this.

It would be difficult for me to believe that after you went through numerous posts stressing obedience for salvation and quoting those scriptures to prove your point, that you would believe that a person who doesn't obey God by believing on His Son could be saved from hell.

The religions of the world don't read God's word so how could they obey Him by following another false god? Allah,
Buddha, Krishna etc. There are 8747 different gods of this world.

Anyone who worships another God besides Jesus can't be saved. They can if they repent of their sins and accept the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob as their God through faith in Jesus who is the only way to the Father.

I'm curious to hear how you think that people from other religions can be saved???
There exists the Natural Law (not the law of nature).
Romans 1:19-20

God is evident in people who not only do not know about Jesus, but maybe do not even know about God.
So does a JUST God banish them to hell because they never heard the word?
Is God a God of love, and a just God, or is He a mean and unjust God?

The American Indian didn't know Jesus. But they knew GOD. In whatever way they understood Him to be, they worshipped the God that created them and their world.

God is evident in nature. In the clouds, in the mountains. His power is obvious. Man feels that there is a power Greater than himself. That power is God.

They don't know about the trinity, they don't salvation economy, but they understand through what they see and what has been made that God exists and so they are without excuse.

A tribe in Africa, for example. Some in that tribe may be atheists, as we understand them to be.
Some may look up at the stars at night and understand that there must surely be a God. What could have created all that they see? Only God. However they understand that to be.

If YOU had never heard of Jesus, but understood the above, and wished to live a good life for that God, do you think He should send you to hell?

God is a big God. We CANNOT PUT HIM IN A BOX. God refuses to stay in a box.

What do you think?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
You're sooooo patient.
I admire you.
I'm a girl
I lose my patience.
Just like some here.
You ain't no girl.
You is a lady.
You are also the apple of our Fathrs eye.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
Nope they are going to hell because they are sinners who don't repent and turn to God and His salvation through faith in Christ atoning work on the cross and His sanctifying work on our lives via the Holy Spirit.
What can I say?

Read Romans 2:11-24
Romans 2:14-15

What does it mean to you?
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
So now your targets are stupid and foolish

Sounds like things are going down hill at the moment.
how else can one defend a doctrine with zero merit but to accuse others of slander and false accusations? I can imagine Jesus meeting these folks and being told He doesnt get it because He was teaching the way
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
people can read Acts 5 for themselves, if they want. and no, I do not dis-agree with the definitions of obey in # 8011.

2 things- Scripture does not contradict, it complements. plucking out verses and applying meaning to them that do not have is wrong.as for mr jens,see my post #8028 for what I think of his wrong application of Scripture.
I care not for what is going on between you and PeterJens.

Why won't you exegete the verse in Acts 5????

Do you suppose i've never read it?
Do you worry your exegesis won't be correct?
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
Simply and perfectly said.

AMEN!

(and I dare to add: God is the judge, not anyone on this thread)
in parenthesis is why when were claiming we are already saved no matter what, were taking Judgement from Christ. Only Jesus has the right and authority to decide who belongs to His Kingdom, and we have the very words of the Judge to learn and Know.

Jesus isnt a scapegoat for sin, But the Highest authority in the universe, His words should be taken as such. as we learn them they change us from the condemned to the accepted and He is so good because we are only accouintable for those things He reveals to us through His word. if we reject Hois authority over His own Kingdom, well, the King spoke much about that and its result. and remember the principle of the ot when a king makes a decree it is irrevocable. or as Jesus puts it " heaven and earth will disappear but my words will never pass away"
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Dontcha just love Augustine?
He said he figured out where evil came from.
When he was much older and wiser, he admitted that we can't know.

He spoke of predestination.
NOT double predestination.

If he was wrong about other things, he might be wrong about this too.

You like to believe HIM instead of all the Others I gave you because you AGREE with him.

So, you believe YOU didn't decide to become a believer, but God chose you?
Election is different from selection. Its in the Bible.

Jesus taught of election in these verses:

Luke 4
25But in truth, I tell you, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heavens were shut up three years and six months, and a great famine came over all the land, 26and Elijah was sent to none of them but only to Zarephath, in the land of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow. 27And there were many lepersa in Israel in the time of the prophet Elisha, and none of them was cleansed, but only Naaman the Syrian.”



It made people mad back then too.
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
when you give to the needy, boast in my name Jesus tell the people the course.............do it in such a way that brings glory to God...


So the glory continues at cc.. coz people of God continue to support it and with there generosity from the heart they perform a good works and make a donation..

tell me is it a crime for me to say that im thinking about making a donation to cc ////

and then tell me the reason why..

I some how seem torn now coz ive been told im a bragger for telling my brothers ive done the work of what the lord would wants people to make a donation he says as much........ and so i have ive made one because i now some what feel this site is under constant attack from crazy people or maybe something else...

Ive come to the conclusion that this site needs help to survive this onslaught of daily denying God

To deny that we recieve our salvation on judgement day and we will be judged for are good works and bad works and deny the works we must do to let Jesus know we are truly one of his,,,, as instructed by Jesus is total denyal in my book,,,,

if ya want to label denying as severe then i would call this severe..God blesses those who bless and i think its a blessing ive donated to cc and not a curse... but no doubt i will be cursed again...

He who cusses is not Of God.
 
Last edited:
A

Ariel82

Guest
What can I say?

Read Romans 2:11-24
Romans 2:14-15

What does it mean to you?
Why can't you be bothered to post verses or do your own exegesis?

14For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.


****

Everyone is given the moral law in,that hearts and have the free will to choose good or,evil....but most because, they are like their father Adam, choose to be selfish and disobey God. Therefore will stand condemned on judgement day unless they hear the gospel because the Law of sin and death condemns them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
Election is different from selection. Its in the Bible.

Jesus taught of election in these verses:

Luke 4
25But in truth, I tell you, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heavens were shut up three years and six months, and a great famine came over all the land, 26and Elijah was sent to none of them but only to Zarephath, in the land of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow. 27And there were many lepersa in Israel in the time of the prophet Elisha, and none of them was cleansed, but only Naaman the Syrian.”



It made people mad back then too.
Please explain the difference between selection and election.
Election is biblical, Selection is new to me.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
in parenthesis is why when were claiming we are already saved no matter what, were taking Judgement from Christ. Only Jesus has the right and authority to decide who belongs to His Kingdom, and we have the very words of the Judge to learn and Know.

Jesus isnt a scapegoat for sin, But the Highest authority in the universe, His words should be taken as such. as we learn them they change us from the condemned to the accepted and He is so good because we are only accouintable for those things He reveals to us through His word. if we reject Hois authority over His own Kingdom, well, the King spoke much about that and its result. and remember the principle of the ot when a king makes a decree it is irrevocable. or as Jesus puts it " heaven and earth will disappear but my words will never pass away"
Hey followjesus,

Actually decrees WERE revocable. Which is why I'm tired of explaining this when some mention how they are sealed in the Holy Spirit.

A king could have sent out a decree creating a new law or even something less important.

IF HE CHANGED HIS MIND,

He would send out a new decree cancelling the first one.

Please find out about this and don't take my word for it.