Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

[ForthAngel]

hi Forth

I do want to respond to all of your post, but let me just address this portion for now cause I do not have time for the proper answer on all the rest of it that your post deserves (and I truly do appreciate the time you are taking to respond)


I know and believe and actually love the fact that Jesus is my Lord. Where we differ is in believing that you are not saved unless you incorporate that fact into your salvation.

The mistake being made by LS is stating that unless we 'submit' to Christ as Lord we are not saved.

He becomes our Lord, because He IS Lord when we are saved. We cannot make Him what He already is.

One day, EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. that means EVERYONE.

so He IS Lord. however, He is a kind, gentle and loving Lord who understands our frailties and He does not whop us over the head when we sin ~ even deliberately. The day everyone calls Him Lord though, will be a different day. They will have no choice but to bow and admit that Jesus Christ is Lord

Jesus is Lord and He is MY Lord. He is also my Savior, my Friend and the Lamb of God and worthy of all my worship, trust, loyalty, love and just anything that I can give that is worth anything of my life.

since you asked and I have answered, I hope you can accept what I wrote.

will hopefully get back later.

thanks again

ps...doesn't Jesus say that if we deny Him He will deny us? I take that seriously

yes. Jesus IS Lord and He is my Lord. please do not confuse me with any other person in the boards even if I agree with them from time to time. my answer is my answer and I cannot help what anyone else writes or thinks

I want to give you a chance to respond to everything else before I give much of a response, but I am glad we can agree that Jesus is Lord. Salvation itself however is submitting to that fact.

I just want to address one thing in this post in particular though.

so He IS Lord. however, He is a kind, gentle and loving Lord who understands our frailties and He does not whop us over the head when we sin ~ even deliberately

He is also more than this.

Matthew 10
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Luke 12
49 “I came to cast fire on the earth, and would that it were already kindled! 50 I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress until it is accomplished! 51 Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. 52 For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

Matthew 23
13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

Matthew 23
27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

He continues on with the woes and name calling for the whole chapter.

Revelation 19
11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. 13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule[c] them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

We serve a dynamic God, and one that is worthy of fear and praise. To serve him is to submit to him. Anyone who rejects his lordship is not converted. And if Jesus would save them, you can guarantee they will find themselves broken before him in discipline before too long and their submission will be forthcoming.

Hebrews 12:4-16English Standard Version (ESV)


4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?


“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor be weary when reproved by him.
6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”
7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

 

[ForthAngel]

I want to give you a chance to respond to everything else before I give much of a response, but I am glad we can agree that Jesus is Lord. Salvation itself however is submitting to that fact.

I just want to address one thing in this post in particular though.



He is also more than this.



He continues on with the woes and name calling for the whole chapter.



We serve a dynamic God, and one that is worthy of fear and praise. To serve him is to submit to him. Anyone who rejects his lordship is not converted. And if Jesus would save them, you can guarantee they will find themselves broken before him in discipline before too long and their submission will be forthcoming.

Dynamic in the sense that he has more than one single attribute, i.e. love.

He also gets angry, pours out wrath, administers justice, etc.

 

[Grace777x70]

God is love. Not that He possess it as an attribute. He "is" love.

So, everything else that comes from God - like anger, justice, wrath, vengeance will all be manifestations of the love of God in action.

Jesus is perfect theology:

Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.

Jesus came to reveal the Father and His true nature to us as truth in the OT was progressive and in pictures and in shadows, but it ends with the revelation of Jesus Christ and what He has already done in His finished work.

So, whatever understanding or perception of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways
,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

If we want to see what the Father's will is concerning a subject - see what Jesus did while He was on this earth.

If we want to see how the Father views sinners - look to see how Jesus interacted with them. ( both the prostitutes and the religious Pharisees )

If we want to see if it's God's will to heal people in their physical bodies - look to Jesus while He was here on this earth.

If we want to see what the Father's discipline looks like - watch Jesus discipline the disciples - He did it with His words.

If we want to see what God gets angry about - look to when Jesus got angry. There is one time the scriptures actually says that Jesus was angry - when grace was not given out to a sick person and religious people tried to go against this. ( He most likely was angry at the temple too but scripture does not say it )

Jesus and the Father are One in their nature, purpose and love.

 

[ForthAngel]

God is love. Not that He possess it as an attribute. He "is" love.

So, everything else that comes from God - like anger, justice, wrath, vengeance will all be manifestations of the love of God in action.

Jesus is perfect theology:

Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.

Jesus came to reveal the Father and His true nature to us as truth in the OT was progressive and in pictures and in shadows, but it ends with the revelation of Jesus Christ and what He has already done in His finished work.

So, whatever understanding or perception of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways
,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

If we want to see what the Father's will is concerning a subject - see what Jesus did while He was on this earth.

If we want to see how the Father views sinners - look to see how Jesus interacted with them. ( both the prostitutes and the religious Pharisees )

If we want to see if it's God's will to heal people in their physical bodies - look to Jesus while He was here on this earth.

If we want to see what the Father's discipline looks like - watch Jesus discipline the disciples - He did it with His words.

If we want to see what God gets angry about - look to when Jesus got angry. There is one time the scriptures actually says that Jesus was angry - when grace was not given out to a sick person and religious people tried to go against this. ( He most likely was angry at the temple too but scripture does not say it )

Jesus and the Father are One in their nature, purpose and love.

I can't even read what you write any more. Your Soteriology is flawed. Your Christology is flawed. Your Theology is flawed.

Your god is this bearded politically correct care bear in the sky. You neglect the other attributes of God and worship love and grace alone. Your god is not the God of the bible.

Everything you say should be rejected outright because you have already proven to neglect clear biblical mandates, you refuse to expose false teachers, you refuse to expose those who malign the Gospel, you rather stand in defense of the wolves at every turn while they devour the sheep. That makes you a wolf in service to satan as far as I'm concerned.

Your god offers you everything your wicked carnal heart desires and you love it. Enjoy that best life now because for us on the side of truth, our promises are yet to come and we look forward to them with patience and hope, through suffering and through trials, but we will not falter in the truth and we will, by the grace of God, overcome this world, while you and others like you will die in the health and riches you've stored up here on earth.

You can't even answer a question as to what heresy even is when the character of Jesus himself is being viciously attacked and maligned. You simply refuse to admit that such a vile attack on Christ is heresy. So why would anyone in their right mind care to listen to you or your views when you can't even defend the one you claim to follow? It's sad man, really sad.

 

[Grace777x70]

I always ask myself 3 questions about truth or a teaching as I thank the Father for the Holy Spirit that He reveals the things of God and of Christ to me.

Without His revelation - we just come up with our own religious ideas and church teachings and traditions which may or may not be entirely accurate.

1) Does it make Jesus bigger in your heart when you see His work and majesty? ( Or does it bring fear and insecurity because you are not "doing" enough to stay saved? )

2) Does it make you depend on Jesus and His finished work? ( or does it depend on what you do and depend on yourself?)

3) Does it make you fall deeply in love with your Lord, our Father and with all people? (Or does it make you view others as accursed, hated by God...etc - even though He loves them so much He sent His Son to die for them )

If I can answer these questions in the affirmative - then it is the good news of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.

We can view scriptures through the lens of the Old Covenant and then try to mix in a little of the New Covenant and we end up in mess of "working to maintain" our own righteousness for going to heaven.

When ever we don't factor in the finished work of Christ nor the real purpose for Jesus dying for us - the fact that God loves us dearly and He is not looking for ways to keep people from Him - we will end up in error as we are mixing up the covenants.

Bearing fruit stems from the life of Christ in us. He is the Vine we are the branches. The branch does not produce it's own fruit. It bears the life of the Vine.

The fruit of the Spirit being produced is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, meekness, goodness, faith and self-control. Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit of God living in us - not a product of self-effort in the flesh.

There are counterfeits of all these fruit that the flesh can try to generate but they are not from God.

There is good fruit and bad fruit of the flesh - but it is still flesh. Outwardly these are sometimes hard to discern. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil had both types of fruit on it. Don't eat from that tree.

Eat from the tree of life - Christ = who is inside of us wanting to bear His fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world as well as to our fellow brethren. We are one with Him in the spirit.

Let's keep beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord and the Holy Spirit will transforms us outwardly to reflect our true nature in our new creations in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

Bless you all and the Lord will be faithful to all of us. As I love to say - "He will be caught in the act of being Himself ". All is well...

 

[ForthAngel]

Grace777, is this heresy?

[video=youtube;lCO5htE9BJs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCO5htE9BJs[/video]

What about this?

Jesus ceased to be God (no longer deity/lost his divine essence)
Jesus suffered at the hands of demons in hell
The atonement didn't take place on the cross
Believe all this or you aren't saved
Jesus was the first born again man
People are little gods (in the divine/deity sense) - not in this clip but is something she teaches in line with all WoF teachers
Christians are sinless (if not, Jesus died in vain according to her)

You stand in defense of these people, so what say you?

Several have asked the question and we are still waiting on an answer.

 

[preacher4truth]

Pretty sad bro ForthAngel, but your post is correct. Somehow G7 has convinced himself that anything flies theologically as long as you believe Christ is the only way. He has stated that in so many words, that as long as that is intact, nothing else is heresy.

Well, Scripture differs with him on this completely. 2 Timothy 2 is notable, as well as 1 John in its entirety describing false teachings. 2 John does so too, as well as Jude and 2 Peter, Acts 20 &c. In these we know the condemnation that is pronounced on Docetists, on those who claim salvation but live ungodly lives, 1 Corinthians 5, 6:9ff, Ephesians 5:5, Galatians 5:19ff, 6:1ff, and upon those who fleece sheep, practice and preach covetousness, turn gain into godliness &c. They are all solemnly declared false teachers and heretics in Scripture. Each of these will claim Christ as the only way to heaven for the most part, so we see that G7 preaches the same things Scripture warns against, yet holds onto a little truth just as those we are warned about in Scripture. There is no difference because there is nothing new under the sun.

So, yes, G7 is incorrect in his assessment and is drawing up a different gospel, and a different set of rules than God has in His Word. His only recourse and typical response is to come back and call everyone slanderers, and then quote a verse out of context trying to make it say it's wrong to point these things out, that it isn't loving, and all this he does is against the clear Scriptural mandate to do so.

It is remarkable that these try so hard to appear as sheep when all they are doing in reality is protecting the wolves in the midst of the sheep themselves.

Scripture clearly has drawn out a completely different gospel and protocol of what heresy and false teachings are in comparison to G7's truncated version of the Gospel. But he won't see it, name calling will be forthcoming, it is a never ending cycle. Some simply are deceived and deceive as well. Scripture warned of this, and of ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. The portentous message in all this is they will have "a form of godliness" but deny the power of that godliness, and will have portions of the Gospel in their false message. A huge false gospel known as H-grace does this as well today, it is a huge proponent of this false message.

 

[Meggido]

Grace777, is this heresy?

[video=youtube;lCO5htE9BJs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCO5htE9BJs[/video]

What about this?

Jesus ceased to be God (no longer deity/lost his divine essence)
Jesus suffered at the hands of demons in hell
The atonement didn't take place on the cross
Believe all this or you aren't saved
Jesus was the first born again man
People are little gods (in the divine/deity sense) - not in this clip but is something she teaches in line with all WoF teachers
Christians are sinless (if not, Jesus died in vain according to her)

You stand in defense of these people, so what say you?

Several have asked the question and we are still waiting on an answer.

Not one of the questions you asked here is presented by the idiot in the video. Only edited video loops and some idiot talking about punching, kicking, and plowing people physically for God to move on them.

I never heard the speaker talk about or say any of these things:

Jesus ceased to be God (no longer deity/lost his divine essence)
Jesus suffered at the hands of demons in hell
The atonement didn't take place on the cross
Believe all this or you aren't saved
Jesus was the first born again man
People are little gods (in the divine/deity sense) - not in this clip but is something she teaches in line with all WoF teachers<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<her or him, I did not hear him talk about WOF teaching
Christians are sinless (if not, Jesus died in vain according to her)<<<<<<<<<<the person in the vid is a due, not a girl, so what gives?

It is obvious you have a axe to grind and have no idea what you are posting. The idiot in the vid is acting like a crazy man and you are not far from it either.

 

[stonesoffire]

I have a question. Do we all agree that Jesus poured His blood on the mercy seat before Father in heaven?

That when He said, don't touch me after rising from death...He was on His way there to do so?

 

[Grace777x70]

Faith operates in the proper understanding of love. The love of God frees us to live in intimacy with Him.

People who are rooted and established in the love of God for them don't feel unloved when circumstances go awry against them.

Eph. 3:19 talks about how we will never be able to experience the fullness of God apart from knowing that God "is" love.

God's love is the key that opens the door to everything God is and everything God has.

Spiritual schizophrenia ceases when we understand God's love, grace and gift of righteousness to us.

Once we know who God is - ( love - 1 John 4:16 ), what He has already done - ( grace - through the finished work of Christ ) and who He has made us to be in our union with Christ - ( the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus - 2 Cor. 5:21 ).

We will know not only that God "can" , but also that He "will" manifest His kingdom on our behalf. This revelation of Him gives birth to a new intimacy with God and a rest in the finished work of Christ - where we cease from our own works and rely on Him only for life and living.

This is one of the reasons why Paul said that faith works by love. Gal. 5:6 This means that the heart of faith operates in the proper understanding of the love of God for us.

The true heart of faith is the simple revelation that God loves us. This releases His life to manifest in us as we behold Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

Todd Bentley - GodTV - defending these people.

I find it strange. I have very similar theology to most yet one group say I am
evil etc for not holding to security views of salvation. Now I have always been
in the middle of this debate and seen it as secondary in theology.

Now Todd is so extreme and his theology so heretical that it is obvious.
Todd spoke to the angel Gabrial, and astral travels to the 3rd heaven etc.
He talks about angels of wealth spreading blessing etc. every odd and unbiblical
yet these guys are sound and right and I am wrong.

After watching GodTV and seeing Todd I was initially interested but found no gospel,
no preaching on conviction of sin, repentance, getting right with God, only this odd
drunken behaviour, kicking people for healing, and in the end an adulterous affair.

The church I used to go to helped set up GodTV and they followed Benny Hinn for years,
so was shocked to see it all in the flesh. I was ashamed that people could fall so far
so quickly following the spiritual desire of being with God and having any spiritual
experience over just knowing what is from God and what is not.

I talked with one guy for a year or so who wanted the spiritual experiences he had
back in the 70's again, a kind of hunger, and Todd was part of it for him. It was a
kind of idolatry for experience above reality and knowing the peace of God in our
hearts and in our worship. Praise God he has brought many out of these situations
to know the beauty of fellowship with Him and His people.

 

[sevenseas]

Dynamic in the sense that he has more than one single attribute, i.e. love.

He also gets angry, pours out wrath, administers justice, etc.

and that is a big part of the problem of LS

let's keep in mind who Jesus was talking to when He said what He said

I have seen and heard so many believers, and this forum is chock full of examples of it, telling other believers they are hypocrites or pharisees or liars and on and on and on and they base such things on bad comprehension, deliberate twisting because the poster has another viewpoint or because they have the mistaken belief it is their duty to point fingers and judge.

let's have some SCRIPTURE regarding why you think LS is biblical. I really would like to see some and I am going to get busy here and submit scripture with regards to the LS position.

please, I am more than well aware of the attributes of God and that He is not Santa or the Easter bunny. don't ASSUME I don't know things because I have a different position.

Thanks

 

[sevenseas]

I have a question. Do we all agree that Jesus poured His blood on the mercy seat before Father in heaven?

That when He said, don't touch me after rising from death...He was on His way there to do so?

many Christians do not realize there is an altar in heaven with the blood of Christ on it

they do not really understand about the blood and why Christ HAD to shed His SINLESS blood for the remission of sins

it truly is all about the blood!

 

[sevenseas]

Not one of the questions you asked here is presented by the idiot in the video. Only edited video loops and some idiot talking about punching, kicking, and plowing people physically for God to move on them.

I never heard the speaker talk about or say any of these things:

Jesus ceased to be God (no longer deity/lost his divine essence)
Jesus suffered at the hands of demons in hell
The atonement didn't take place on the cross
Believe all this or you aren't saved
Jesus was the first born again man
People are little gods (in the divine/deity sense) - not in this clip but is something she teaches in line with all WoF teachers<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<her or him, I did not hear him talk about WOF teaching
Christians are sinless (if not, Jesus died in vain according to her)<<<<<<<<<<the person in the vid is a due, not a girl, so what gives?

It is obvious you have a axe to grind and have no idea what you are posting. The idiot in the vid is acting like a crazy man and you are not far from it either.

if I may speak freely and use a certain term in the truest sense of the word

Todd Bentley is a BASTERDIZED version of Christianity and not acceptable for anything but an EXCELLENT example of what is wrong with people accepting things that are so spooky they get goosebumps and this type of thing creates an arena for DEMONIC activity

there are plenty of so called prophets and teachers I would not advise anyone to go and see, but Bentley is the creme de la creme of the top of the demonized nitwits for sure

and why this type of nonsense is given in support of denouncing the gifts, is a cheap alternative to actually studying what the God given book we call the Bible says regarding any gift or behavior

I was in FL when Bentley had his cough cough big ole revival going on. I didn't go to it and this is OLD OLD OLD OLD news!!!

I wish people would stop responding to this nonsense. NO ONE agrees this is good and that should be a shut case.

itching ears gotta be scratched, right? the onus is on the believer to be a Berean. if someone knows the REAL, unless they are the most gullible or innocent of innocents, they are not going to fall for this unreedemed and unreedeemable garbage

there are a number of reasons people go to these things, but longing for the truth is not one of them

 

[sevenseas]

It is obvious you have a axe to grind and have no idea what you are posting. The idiot in the vid is acting like a crazy man and you are not far from it either.

for the record, while I have no use for the posting of the Bentley video, I also have no use for calling other posters crazy

if you do that? don't complain about how you get answered

bunch of children throwing rocks

 

[sevenseas]

I was really trying to have a decent exchange with Forth and I think that was happening.

Forth ~ I was going to post, but I am somewhat ticked off right now and not even really at you although I absolutely do NOT agree with the stupid videos.

we got it. I would be the first to warn people not to get involved with that type of thing. it's demonic IMO

going to let it rest and hope you actually do post some scriptures and I will not post again regarding other's post

sorry ~ it's such a distraction and I allowed myself to get sucked in so I'm going to go cool off

 

[Meggido]

if I may speak freely and use a certain term in the truest sense of the word

Todd Bentley is a BASTERDIZED version of Christianity and not acceptable for anything but an EXCELLENT example of what is wrong with people accepting things that are so spooky they get goosebumps and this type of thing creates an arena for DEMONIC activity

there are plenty of so called prophets and teachers I would not advise anyone to go and see, but Bentley is the creme de la creme of the top of the demonized nitwits for sure

and why this type of nonsense is given in support of denouncing the gifts, is a cheap alternative to actually studying what the God given book we call the Bible says regarding any gift or behavior

I was in FL when Bentley had his cough cough big ole revival going on. I didn't go to it and this is OLD OLD OLD OLD news!!!

I wish people would stop responding to this nonsense. NO ONE agrees this is good and that should be a shut case.

itching ears gotta be scratched, right? the onus is on the believer to be a Berean. if someone knows the REAL, unless they are the most gullible or innocent of innocents, they are not going to fall for this unreedemed and unreedeemable garbage

there are a number of reasons people go to these things, but longing for the truth is not one of them

I would not know anything about Todd Bentley, but clearly in the video he needs more Jesus and less red bull

 

[ForthAngel]

I was really trying to have a decent exchange with Forth and I think that was happening.

Forth ~ I was going to post, but I am somewhat ticked off right now and not even really at you although I absolutely do NOT agree with the stupid videos.

we got it. I would be the first to warn people not to get involved with that type of thing. it's demonic IMO

going to let it rest and hope you actually do post some scriptures and I will not post again regarding other's post

sorry ~ it's such a distraction and I allowed myself to get sucked in so I'm going to go cool off

You might warn people, but my exchange with Grace777 is based on the past and his constant defense of such ministries as "differing opinions" rather than heretical. Every time one of his favorite health and wealth or WoF preachers are being exposed, he runs in to their rescue. I would just like to hear a definite "yes, that is heresy" from him instead of constant blame shifting. That seems to be too much to ask though.

 

[ForthAngel]

and that is a big part of the problem of LS


let's keep in mind who Jesus was talking to when He said what He said


I have seen and heard so many believers, and this forum is chock full of examples of it, telling other believers they are hypocrites or pharisees or liars and on and on and on and they base such things on bad comprehension, deliberate twisting because the poster has another viewpoint or because they have the mistaken belief it is their duty to point fingers and judge.


let's have some SCRIPTURE regarding why you think LS is biblical. I really would like to see some and I am going to get busy here and submit scripture with regards to the LS position.


please, I am more than well aware of the attributes of God and that He is not Santa or the Easter bunny. don't ASSUME I don't know things because I have a different position.


Thanks

Romans 6, whole chapter, John 14:15, Luke 14:25-33, Romans 10:9-13, Philippians 2:9-11, to name a few.

9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again, Lordship salvation adds nothing to salvation. All proponents of it will agree that "for by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this is not of your own doing", but we will also admit that all who are saved will submit to Jesus as Lord. There is no other possible outcome. Those who say there is really have to deny a LOT of scripture that talks about post-salvation nature.

Romans 6 English Standard Version (ESV)
Dead to Sin, Alive to God
6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

The old self would never submit to Christ as Lord and King. Anyone who claims the new self can mirror image the old self is deceived. We are new creatures in Christ. Literally.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Slaves to Righteousness
15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 14:15English Standard Version (ESV)
15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

Philippians 2
9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Anyone who denies the Lordship of Christ is acting contrary to the new nature scripture says they will have. Anyone who claims to be a Christian yet denies Christ's lordship are showing signs of rebellion and not signs of the new birth in Christ.

Let me go ahead and preempt any accusations of sinless perfection as well and say I am not claiming a born again person will not sin. A born again man will, however, walk in newness of life and no longer be enslaved by former sins. We will all still battle the corpse we inhabit until the day of redemption. Our heart and mind will always be on Jesus our Lord though and we will submit to him as such and he is worthy of that submission. Continuing in rebellion in accordance with the old nature is to deny the rebirth that takes place with true saving faith. A born again Christian simply won't deny Christ as their Lord and, in fact, they would rather die before doing so.

11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. 13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

 

[Rockrz]

health and wealth

God wants His people to be sick and broke???

If that is true... isn't it a sin for you to go to the doctor to try and get well when it's God's will for you to be sickly???

And, if you believe God wants His children to be poor... did you give away all yer stuff and are homeless now.