Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?
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IIRC, he was piling on Dr. Steven Lawson in the OP video Brother P4T posted a while ago. But show his heroes and heroettes their heresies, he retracts like a turtle in its hull...around here we call a shell a hull.
No idea what any of these people teach, but I'm reminded of this scripture...
Galatians 5:22-26: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another"
Galatians 5:22-26: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another"
Amen... I have no interest in things that people have said 20-30 years ago and go over all that with people. It just causes strife and division.
I have found 3 things in these types of situations to be true.
1) Most have twisted what is being said by someone and they take something out of context. This makes it "appear" to be saying something else other than what is being said. They take a term or a phrase and without seeing what "context" the term was used - it can be deceiving. They don't post what is being said before it and after it in order to show the true picture of what is really being said.
2) Sometimes it's their own wrong perception of what is being said and with these types there is hope for them because when the "context" and clarification is given - then they will see what is really being said.
There is major trouble when people deliberately mis-represent what others are saying after they have been told the truth. These types are really to be avoided as no good comes from this but nothing but strife and division is the fruit of those encounters.
3) And sometimes they just plain disagree even if they are honest in their representation of what someone else is really saying. There is nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. The problem comes when others insult and slander the others because they have a different view then they do. That's is foul behavior and it's best to just ignore these types of behavior and avoid them just like Paul says in Rom. 16:17.
I encourage all people to check out in context themselves what someone is saying and when they said it so that they are not deceived into believing something that may or may not be true because of mis-representation of what is really being said by another.
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Ariel82
Guest
G777....I don't think that's what Kayla meant when posting that verse.
You don't seriously support the Word of Faith movement, do you?
You don't seriously support the Word of Faith movement, do you?
I have written many times that I don't believe in all aspects of any "movement" nor any minister. I'm not sure exactly what the word of faith people believe now as I only knew about them in the 80's when I went to a couple of churches.
Personally I believe that they were off in the area of having faith in your faith. Just because you say something enough times doesn't make it happen. Where this is off is that people were having confidence in their own works of "If I say it enough times - then it will come to pass."
This is taking the focus off of the word of Christ Himself and making it all about "What they do." Faith is a positive response to what the grace of Christ has already provided. It is faith in Him alone and nothing else.
They didn't know much about the grace of God but were mostly a works-based belief system in my estimation.
As, I say - I'm not sure what this "movement" believes now. I do know that in any area of truth that there is a growth process and none of us has perfect doctrine in every area because truth is like an ear of corn that is growing - like Jesus talked about how the kingdom operates. We see it growing as more of it is being revealed to us.
I do believe in the gifts of the Spirit - I do believe in praying with my spirit in tongues to my Father and Lord.
I do believe that it is God's will for healing. I do believe it is God's will for people to prosper "SO THAT" they can be a blessing to others.
I believe that God is not against His children having things - He is against things having His children. It's all a matter of where your trust is - in "things" or in God Himself.
I believe that as we delight in the Lord - He births within us His desires and that we are to purse them depending on His life and grace as we go through this life on earth.
I believe there are many parts to the body of Christ and they have different functions.
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Book, chapter and verse please. Address the text directly and don't make unfounded statements without proof. I like how you conveniently ignored what I said and posted.
Context, please!
Paul shouldn't have anxiety according to you. Shows he is faithless. Context shows Paul suffered many hardships for the Gospel. He didn't have a life of luxury and live like a king.
Paul's Sufferings as an Apostle
16 I repeat, let no one think me foolish. But even if you do, accept me as a fool, so that I too may boast a little. 17 What I am saying with this boastful confidence, I say not as the Lord would[a] but as a fool. 18 Since many boast according to the flesh, I too will boast. 19 For you gladly bear with fools, being wise yourselves! 20 For you bear it if someone makes slaves of you, or devours you, or takes advantage of you, or puts on airs, or strikes you in the face. 21 To my shame, I must say, we were too weak for that!
But whatever anyone else dares to boast of—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast of that. 22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they offspring of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they servants of Christ? I am a better one—I am talking like a madman—with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death. 24 Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; 26 on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; 27 in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. 28 And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant?
30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. 31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. 32 At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas was guarding the city of Damascus in order to seize me, 33 but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his hands.
Geez, Paul suffered all of that? What a faithless dog. He should have spoken some riches into existence and been living like a king.
Exactly what I'm saying. Dunno how you are trying to make this fit your false gospel though. Seems to be you are the one preaching about the "cares of this life" and how they are great and God will give us everything our carnal heart desires. Also, context, please!
Jesus is actually talking about staying alert for his coming will be sudden.
34 “But watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap. 35 For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
Let me help you with the CONTEXT of this one too:
John 14English Standard Version (ESV)
I Am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life
14 “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. 4 And you know the way to where I am going.” 5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”
Nothing there about earthly riches, health, or wealth. In fact, let's parallel this with something else Jesus said:
Matthew 6:19-21English Standard Version (ESV)
Lay Up Treasures in Heaven
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Again, Paul must have been a faithless dog, the scoundrel. Should have been living like Solomon and had his own private jet.
Actually, I already showed that Paul had a rough life and not an easy one. He was never healed of his affliction in 2 Corinthians 12. He made it clear that he prayed 3 times for God to deliver him, but God refused.
God allowed it. Again, I've already showed the context. Paul was a faithless dog though, so God couldn't help him. He should have commanded that devil right out, in Jesus' name! Isn't that what you guys do? Or is it that satan was just too powerful for God to have taken out of the way? Maybe that''s what you think. You do promote satan's gospel after all.
I look at scripture as a whole. Wasn't that your advice? You don't seem to practice what you preach though. This is a lame attempt at a defense btw. Seems you got proven wrong by Paul's condition so you have to lessen Paul's authority. I also would make my appeal to Jesus and what he taught since Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit and Jesus was not in disagreement.
Wow, two whole years. What about the decades of being beaten and imprisoned and stoned and whipped?
What about this letter to Timothy from in prison when Paul was anticipating his impending death:
6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.
Also, I'd like to look at the context of this chapter as well. Maybe you'll get some benefit from it:
2 Timothy 4English Standard Version (ESV)
Preach the Word
4 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 5 As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
That time is now.
Says the money grubber who does nothing but insult and make fun of anyone who disagrees with his satanic health and wealth gospel.
So, what have we learned?
Paul is a faithless dog and had not the faith to live like a king for all of his days.
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Ariel82
Guest
G777
This pretty much what folks are saying just with stronger words...WOF teaches a false works based salvation gospel and puts faith in the person's words and NOT God's will.
The rest of you post shows your beliefs, which is good, but doesn't change the fact you seem to be defending a movement you found to be teaching a false gospel.
This pretty much what folks are saying just with stronger words...WOF teaches a false works based salvation gospel and puts faith in the person's words and NOT God's will.
The rest of you post shows your beliefs, which is good, but doesn't change the fact you seem to be defending a movement you found to be teaching a false gospel.
Nothing here about earthly riches, wealth, or health. Context, please!
Triumph in Christ
12 When I came to Troas to preach the gospel of Christ, even though a door was opened for me in the Lord, 13 my spirit was not at rest because I did not find my brother Titus there. So I took leave of them and went on to Macedonia.
14 But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere. 15 For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, 16 to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things? 17 For we are not, like so many, peddlers of God's word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God, in the sight of God we speak in Christ.
Nothing here about earthly riches, wealth, or health. Context, please!
10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” 12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
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Well...you are entitled to your own opinion. ...
I defend brothers and sisters in the body of Christ from those that purposely try to insult them and make them out to be some thing else because they disagree with some aspect of a teaching - which they may have had 20-30 years ago. Even if they have a different view currently on some aspect.
There is no one that has all the truth in any area and to attack other people publicly and personally because they view a subject differently then they do is foul behavior no matter how much we try to mask it.
The truth is - there is a religion called Christianity that all of us have been guilty of preaching a false gospel in our past and some deviation of it most likely still.
Just look at how the gospel is preached today by our modern evangelical church and compare it to the true gospel being preached by Peter and Paul in Acts 10 and Acts 13.
Look at what our true ministry is to be as Paul says in 2 Cor. 5:18-21
But the Lord is changing all that and bringing clarity to all of us as He is revealing His love and grace and all that Christ has done for us.
Religion steeped in it's church teachings and traditions will fight back on this tooth and nail the whole time but the knowledge of the glory/goodness of the Lord will fill all the world.
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Ariel, notice that what Grace777 and others are saying when they defend false teachers are almost verbatim what Joseph Prince says:
PRINCE’S PROSPERITY GOSPEL
Much of Prince’s teaching is a repackaging of concepts from the Word of Faith movement.3 He writes, “I give thanks to God for my roots in the Word of Faith teachings. It is truly on the shoulders of great men of God like Brother Kenneth E. Hagin that we are able to see further into the Word of God today.”4 Just as Hagin taught “what the individual says, that shall he receive,”5 so Prince recapitulates, “God says to you, you have an edge, your edge is your mouth. You are righteous by faith, so speak. God’s favor is all over my business…whatever I do prospers!”6 Now Prince admits, “I would preach, ‘The reason you are sick is that there is something wrong with you,’” until one day God supposedly told him, “Stop disqualifying My people! My blood has already qualified them.”7
Nevertheless he has not completely reformed from his old ways. For example, he still thinks poor and sick believers cannot bless anyone, and maintains, “Religion will tell you that ‘God’ wants you sick to teach you character and patience. Religion will tell you that ‘God’ wants you poor, so that you will learn humility. It sounds noble, doesn’t it? But these are LIES from the pit of hell!”8
Prince also uses the Word of Faith tactic of twisting Scripture to buttress the claim that God guarantees unlimited health and wealth this side of eternity. He teaches, for example, that Isaiah 53:5 means, “Sickness and diseases are not from God. On the cross, Jesus bore not just our sins, but also our sicknesses, diseases and infirmities, and ‘by His stripes we are healed!’”9 Isaiah 53:5, however, speaks of spiritual healing, as Peter makes clear, when he writes that Christ “bore our sins on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness, for by His wounds you were healed” (1 Pet. 2:25).10
Joseph Prince: Unmerited Favor - Christian Research Institute
Joseph Prince's mentor:
[video=youtube;1SgByE0pX1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SgByE0pX1M[/video]
[video=youtube;1SgByE0pX1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SgByE0pX1M[/video]
People can go to extremes about anything in life. Good thing we have Holy Spirit to teach us or we all would go astray.
The problems in our walk is always when we quit spending time with Him...and get busy "doing His work". While this may be seem a good thing, "without Him we can "do" nothing.
In the case of Todd Bentley? Immaturity, ego, and overwhelming criticism. Perhaps he has moved on? You may not know the whole story of events.
Will we let him? It's something we seem to want to do...keep a person locked in their mistakes. Sounds demonic to me. Not at all like Jesus.
The problems in our walk is always when we quit spending time with Him...and get busy "doing His work". While this may be seem a good thing, "without Him we can "do" nothing.
In the case of Todd Bentley? Immaturity, ego, and overwhelming criticism. Perhaps he has moved on? You may not know the whole story of events.
Will we let him? It's something we seem to want to do...keep a person locked in their mistakes. Sounds demonic to me. Not at all like Jesus.
This statement is without a doubt true.
“Religion will tell you that ‘God’ wants you sick to teach you character and patience. Religion will tell you that ‘God’ wants you poor, so that you will learn humility. It sounds noble, doesn’t it? But these are LIES from the pit of hell!”
Jesus is perfect theology and He proves this quote as being lies and not true of the real nature of our Father. The idea that God wants you sick to teach you something or that He wants you poor to learn humility is not supported by Christ's revelation of the Father that He showed us. Jesus showed us the complete opposite of these religious false beliefs that malign the very nature of God.
But - people are free to believe what they want about the nature of our Father and Lord.
I firmly believe that when we stand before our Father and see Him for who He truly is - we are going to be appalled at the things we believed about His true nature and intent towards us.
He will be faithful and wipe away every tear that comes and He will throughout eternity be doing this towards us.
Ephesians 2:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
We have a faithful loving Father and a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ.
He loved. He gave. We believed. We live.
“Religion will tell you that ‘God’ wants you sick to teach you character and patience. Religion will tell you that ‘God’ wants you poor, so that you will learn humility. It sounds noble, doesn’t it? But these are LIES from the pit of hell!”
Jesus is perfect theology and He proves this quote as being lies and not true of the real nature of our Father. The idea that God wants you sick to teach you something or that He wants you poor to learn humility is not supported by Christ's revelation of the Father that He showed us. Jesus showed us the complete opposite of these religious false beliefs that malign the very nature of God.
But - people are free to believe what they want about the nature of our Father and Lord.
I firmly believe that when we stand before our Father and see Him for who He truly is - we are going to be appalled at the things we believed about His true nature and intent towards us.
He will be faithful and wipe away every tear that comes and He will throughout eternity be doing this towards us.
Ephesians 2:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
We have a faithful loving Father and a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ.
He loved. He gave. We believed. We live.
Exactly! ( I have never been to this Todd Bentley guy's meetings nor do I have any interest in it )
Who here has not been guilty of something in our past? Who here has been perfect in all things? Who here is perfect now in all things?
People that purposely go about to publicly insult and malign others in the body of Christ are to be avoided. No good comes from interacting with this type of behavior.
It is the local leadership in an assembly that has the "spiritual" authority to speak to these people - not every Tom, Dick and Sally from the internet that disagrees with some things.
We can't stop others from publicly insulting others in the body of Christ but we can stop associating with them like Paul says to do in Romans 16:17 and in 1 Cor. 5:11.
People can give out the scriptures to show what they believe and leave it in the hands of the Holy Spirit. He will be faithful to reveal the things of God to us and reveal Christ and all that He has already done on the cross and resurrection.
I encourage people to preach and teach the love and grace of God in Christ so that we will have the proper nutrients to grow up in Christ - so that others will see the goodness and love and grace of our father and Lord to those in the world that are being destroyed and are hurt. These need to know about the Father's love and grace towards them in Christ.
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