Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Interesting observation.
Firstly I would say that those who maintain salvation comes through works will say that they need to love those who oppose this they need to love us regardless as well.
Personally I believe the following saves a person
Romans 10:9-11
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
Righteousness
What is righteousness? Most of us immediately think of a person trying to keep a list of rules, like a little boy or girl who never steps over the line. When Paul speaks of righteousness in Romans, he means far more than this commonsense understanding of the word. He draws on the Old Testament concept of righteousness, which speaks of a proper relationship between God and a person, or between God and His people.
To me people can fall foul of a proper relationship because they have no idea what a proper relationship is.
Why do we love God? Because he first loved us.
However to me a person who confesses as per the above verses has placed genuine faith in the right person who is Jesus but if their view of love, it's meaning, how it works then that will affect the relationship. Surely it has to.
Distorted views of how a relationship is meant to work dominate, even to detriment of the believer.
But the truth is God loves us all as much as he loves Jesus.
If we can grasp that truth, then that is what will set us free in our relationship with God and each other.
Firstly I would say that those who maintain salvation comes through works will say that they need to love those who oppose this they need to love us regardless as well.
Personally I believe the following saves a person
Romans 10:9-11
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
Righteousness
What is righteousness? Most of us immediately think of a person trying to keep a list of rules, like a little boy or girl who never steps over the line. When Paul speaks of righteousness in Romans, he means far more than this commonsense understanding of the word. He draws on the Old Testament concept of righteousness, which speaks of a proper relationship between God and a person, or between God and His people.
To me people can fall foul of a proper relationship because they have no idea what a proper relationship is.
Why do we love God? Because he first loved us.
However to me a person who confesses as per the above verses has placed genuine faith in the right person who is Jesus but if their view of love, it's meaning, how it works then that will affect the relationship. Surely it has to.
Distorted views of how a relationship is meant to work dominate, even to detriment of the believer.
But the truth is God loves us all as much as he loves Jesus.
If we can grasp that truth, then that is what will set us free in our relationship with God and each other.
For me I don't think Jesus is saying that we can do greater things than he has done.
After all what can beat rasing someone from the dead, which Jesus did or walk on water, feed 5000.
Jesus says
John 14:12-14
The Answered Prayer
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.
It seems to tie in with Jesus having to go back to the Father
We know Jesus also said that when he went back then the Holy Spirit would come and as beleivers the Holy Spirit will be in us.
Jesus whilst on earth his ministry was restricted to Galilee and Judaea. He was one person in one area.
We find in Acts that miracles were performed in terms of healing.
We also find that every believer is given a gift(s) which can be public or private gifts (i.e. Praying behind closed doors for others).
So I think the greater works are not the works themselves but magnitude of the works in terms of the geographical area.
The book of Acts.
When Jesus went back to heaven, beleivers were in thier hundreds, 40 days later it numbered thousands and by the end of Acts the gospel wea being preached in Rome.
Acts 28:16
Now when we came to Rome, the centurion delivered the prisoners to the captain of the guard; but Paul was permitted to dwell by himself with the soldier who guarded him.
So to me the greater works are not the works themselves but greater in the extent of where the gospel has been preached and will be preached.
E
And that's what gets in the way.
No one likes to be proved wrong, it's called pride and false pride.
I am not saying this about individuals on here but just observe that's a natural response in us humans
No one likes to be proved wrong, it's called pride and false pride.
I am not saying this about individuals on here but just observe that's a natural response in us humans
That was a beautiful song, Bill, thank you for sharing 
I really like the music of Matt Maher
This is the first song of his I ever heard:
[video=youtube;r6w5szlpedY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w5szlpedY[/video]
I really like the music of Matt Maher
This is the first song of his I ever heard:
[video=youtube;r6w5szlpedY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w5szlpedY[/video]
Gonna add it to my library.
With regards to the communion song their is one thing that really sticks out to me
Oh, how could it be
That my God would welcome me into this mystery
Say take this bread, take this wine
Now the simple made divine for any to receive
By Your mercy, we come to Your table
By Your grace, You are making us faithful
Lord, we remember You
And remembrance leads us to worship
And as we worship You
Our worship leads to communion
We respond to Your invitation, we remember You
See His body, His blood
Know that He has overcome every trial we will face
None too lost to be saved
None too broken or ashamed, all are welcome in this place
By Your mercy, we come to Your table
By Your grace, You are making us faithful
Lord, we remember You
And remembrance leads us to worship
And as we worship You
Our worship leads to communion
We respond to Your invitation, we remember You
Dying You destroyed our death
Rising You restored our life
Lord Jesus, come in glory
Lord Jesus, come in glory
Lord Jesus, come in glory
Lord Jesus, come in glory
Lord, we remember You
And remembrance leads us to worship
And as we worship You
Our worship leads to communion
We respond to Your invitation
We respond to Your invitation, we remember You
its our focus on Jesus and his grace and it's his grace that makes us faithful
That my God would welcome me into this mystery
Say take this bread, take this wine
Now the simple made divine for any to receive
By Your mercy, we come to Your table
By Your grace, You are making us faithful
Lord, we remember You
And remembrance leads us to worship
And as we worship You
Our worship leads to communion
We respond to Your invitation, we remember You
See His body, His blood
Know that He has overcome every trial we will face
None too lost to be saved
None too broken or ashamed, all are welcome in this place
By Your mercy, we come to Your table
By Your grace, You are making us faithful
Lord, we remember You
And remembrance leads us to worship
And as we worship You
Our worship leads to communion
We respond to Your invitation, we remember You
Dying You destroyed our death
Rising You restored our life
Lord Jesus, come in glory
Lord Jesus, come in glory
Lord Jesus, come in glory
Lord Jesus, come in glory
Lord, we remember You
And remembrance leads us to worship
And as we worship You
Our worship leads to communion
We respond to Your invitation
We respond to Your invitation, we remember You
its our focus on Jesus and his grace and it's his grace that makes us faithful
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Amen, the truth is Jesus.
In this world if people have faith in Jesus and follow I say Amen, welcome brother and sister.
It is by dwelling with Christ that we learn His words to us and learn to know what love with
an open heart really means.
Some of the hardest things is anger generated by random events or miss-understandings,
when opportunity comes, love can be shared despite the situation. And I say Hallelujah,
glory to God, for He is the Lord of Hosts, who desires that we might know His love and
share it, What a King, what a Lord.
We under value love taking out the wrinkles, sorting out who we are, and boy do we have
lots of sorting out to do. 3 years with Jesus and the disciples still got it wrong. This walk
is very different than our worldly idealism would picture it as.
God bless you all, for we are Gods people under His grace and love.
In this world if people have faith in Jesus and follow I say Amen, welcome brother and sister.
It is by dwelling with Christ that we learn His words to us and learn to know what love with
an open heart really means.
Some of the hardest things is anger generated by random events or miss-understandings,
when opportunity comes, love can be shared despite the situation. And I say Hallelujah,
glory to God, for He is the Lord of Hosts, who desires that we might know His love and
share it, What a King, what a Lord.
We under value love taking out the wrinkles, sorting out who we are, and boy do we have
lots of sorting out to do. 3 years with Jesus and the disciples still got it wrong. This walk
is very different than our worldly idealism would picture it as.
God bless you all, for we are Gods people under His grace and love.
Until we see God the Lord of Hosts willing to die for us lost sinners, love seems
like a nice extra, rather than the power that drives everything, embedded in our Lord
and embedded in all that is pure and Holy.
I remember when it broke into my heart, I was undone, an unholy sinner lost without
any measure or way to find comparison. To rebel against such as this was so wrong,
yet to aspire to be like the King seemed also impossible, unless in this place He was
also saying we are loved and called into His presence.
like a nice extra, rather than the power that drives everything, embedded in our Lord
and embedded in all that is pure and Holy.
I remember when it broke into my heart, I was undone, an unholy sinner lost without
any measure or way to find comparison. To rebel against such as this was so wrong,
yet to aspire to be like the King seemed also impossible, unless in this place He was
also saying we are loved and called into His presence.
It still doesnt change anything sorry nice try but no cigar mego.. Believer can do the works Of Jesus without being told.. they do it automatically...
This scripture means just that to me billy.. this is beleive and rec ieve that the believer can do great things just like Jesus..but only because he has felt the power of Jesus and his healing power..
This scripture means just that to me billy.. this is beleive and rec ieve that the believer can do great things just like Jesus..but only because he has felt the power of Jesus and his healing power..