Not By Works

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Mainly because they have ignored that scripture or won't admit it says that if your foundation is in Christ and even if your works are hay and stubble that God will save the person from the fire.

Or they just want to fight about works and it's not really about the salvation at all. Its about their beliefs and being right.
And that's what gets in the way.

No one likes to be proved wrong, it's called pride and false pride.

I am not saying this about individuals on here but just observe that's a natural response in us humans

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
its not confusing at all. If we know WHAT SIN IS.. It gets confusing when you water down lava. And try replace them with your own interpretation. Thats what makes it confusing, because there is no set baseline.
Autocorrect strikes again, That is supposed to be water down "The Law" Not "Lava"..lol
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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The reason I said earlier that I'm not sure if these works people are lost is because of the prodigal son parable.
The younger son THOUGHT that he had lost his sonship (salvation). In his case because of his actions (sins). Maybe the reverse is true as well.
The older son was angry that the younger was welcomed home. HE had done all the work required to keep his sonship.

So maybe these works to maintain salvation people, that have confessed Jesus as Lord, and believe in their heart that God the Father raised Him from the grave, are like the older son,

I don't know. I could be wrong. But I DO know that we need to love them regardless.
Interesting observation.

Firstly I would say that those who maintain salvation comes through works will say that they need to love those who oppose this they need to love us regardless as well.

Personally I believe the following saves a person

Romans 10:9-11
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

Righteousness


What is righteousness? Most of us immediately think of a person trying to keep a list of rules, like a little boy or girl who never steps over the line. When Paul speaks of righteousness in Romans, he means far more than this commonsense understanding of the word. He draws on the Old Testament concept of righteousness, which speaks of a proper relationship between God and a person, or between God and His people.

To me people can fall foul of a proper relationship because they have no idea what a proper relationship is.

Why do we love God? Because he first loved us.

However to me a person who confesses as per the above verses has placed genuine faith in the right person who is Jesus but if their view of love, it's meaning, how it works then that will affect the relationship. Surely it has to.

Distorted views of how a relationship is meant to work dominate, even to detriment of the believer.

But the truth is God loves us all as much as he loves Jesus.

If we can grasp that truth, then that is what will set us free in our relationship with God and each other.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,892
29,281
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Have you got his Rememberance (Communion Song)?

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1F2WAGVOEOo[/video]

Magenta if you wouldn't mind
Of course :)

[video=youtube;1F2WAGVOEOo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F2WAGVOEOo&app=desktop[/video]
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
113
anyway im still wondering what could be ment by Jesus saying we could do greater things than he could ? please feel free to answer and shine ya light and let the whole world see...... for the glory.....

For me I don't think Jesus is saying that we can do greater things than he has done.
After all what can beat rasing someone from the dead, which Jesus did or walk on water, feed 5000.

Jesus says

John 14:12-14
The Answered Prayer
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

It seems to tie in with Jesus having to go back to the Father
We know Jesus also said that when he went back then the Holy Spirit would come and as beleivers the Holy Spirit will be in us.

Jesus whilst on earth his ministry was restricted to Galilee and Judaea. He was one person in one area.

We find in Acts that miracles were performed in terms of healing.
We also find that every believer is given a gift(s) which can be public or private gifts (i.e. Praying behind closed doors for others).

So I think the greater works are not the works themselves but magnitude of the works in terms of the geographical area.

The book of Acts.

When Jesus went back to heaven, beleivers were in thier hundreds, 40 days later it numbered thousands and by the end of Acts the gospel wea being preached in Rome.

Acts 28:16


Now when we came to Rome, the centurion delivered the prisoners to the captain of the guard; but Paul was permitted to dwell by himself with the soldier who guarded him.


So to me the greater works are not the works themselves but greater in the extent of where the gospel has been preached and will be preached.



 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yeah... I think it can work that way to. But the point is if they believe the Gospel, and have accepted Jesus, then they aren't lost. Just walking in the flesh and not the Spirit.
the point becomes, What gospel are they believing in..

I can say I believe in the gospel. it does not mean I am saved, if I believe in the wrong gospel. I am not saved..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Not really sure what you are saying here.

I can't see how one can have a faith that is rejected based on a walk that has no reference to God.
If that's the case then to me it's two fold.

They have faith in a god but do not have faith in Jesus as the son of God.

The idea of loving someone causes confusion? Most damaged people fall into this category and that includes genuine beleivers in Jesus.

This is where we as beleivers should be willing to get our hands dirty. Loving both camps as much as God loves Jesus, as much as Jesus loves us. We must remember also that Jesus tells us that God loves us as much as him.

A person who genuinely believes in Jesus and has confessed faith but is very badly hurt and emotionally damaged is more likely to guard their hearts and not chance love, with others and with God.

Then what happens they do works to earn approval and not as a result of approval, both from man and from God.

I am a prime example of this, but God kept chipping away, through his word and precious genuine Godly spirit filled people.

Just become someone's heart doesn't come to life with a view to love doesn't mean they have rejected faith.
In fact i would reckon that they have faith for getting into heaven with God saying as he clips them round the ears

"Oh well I suppose I had better let you in, you good for nothing. I'm only letting you in because of Jesus"

They have no idea that God loves them as much as he loves Jesus.

Love conquers all but if one does not have a concept of love then life and the Christian walk will be very hard indeed.

We truly need walk in the love that God has for us to see broke, damaged and hurting people set free to come to the place of faith in God and unconditional acceptance of them.

Then they we set free through the power of Jesus to enjoy an loving fruitful walk with Jesus.
thats why we should never judge anyone's faith or salvation, We do not know what has happened..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
And that's what gets in the way.

No one likes to be proved wrong, it's called pride and false pride.

I am not saying this about individuals on here but just observe that's a natural response in us humans

then it usually just steamrolls so far from point, you can not even tell what the point was anymore. and worse, you start to believe your own lies are true..
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,892
29,281
113
That was a beautiful song, Bill, thank you for sharing :)

I really like the music of Matt Maher :D

This is the first song of his I ever heard:

[video=youtube;r6w5szlpedY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w5szlpedY[/video]

 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
113
then it usually just steamrolls so far from point, you can not even tell what the point was anymore. and worse, you start to believe your own lies are true..
And that's what lies are.

If we don't belive what we believe is a lie then it's truth.

Jesus came to reveal the lies and replace it with the truth.

That truth is Jesus
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
113
That was a beautiful song, Bill, thank you for sharing :)

I really like the music of Matt Maher :D

This is the first song of his I ever heard:

[video=youtube;r6w5szlpedY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w5szlpedY[/video]

Not heard that one before,

Gonna add it to my library.

With regards to the communion song their is one thing that really sticks out to me

Oh, how could it be
That my God would welcome me into this mystery
Say take this bread, take this wine
Now the simple made divine for any to receive

By Your mercy, we come to Your table
By Your grace, You are making us faithful

Lord, we remember You
And remembrance leads us to worship
And as we worship You
Our worship leads to communion
We respond to Your invitation, we remember You

See His body, His blood
Know that He has overcome every trial we will face
None too lost to be saved
None too broken or ashamed, all are welcome in this place

By Your mercy, we come to Your table
By Your grace, You are making us faithful

Lord, we remember You
And remembrance leads us to worship
And as we worship You
Our worship leads to communion
We respond to Your invitation, we remember You

Dying You destroyed our death
Rising You restored our life
Lord Jesus, come in glory

Lord Jesus, come in glory
Lord Jesus, come in glory
Lord Jesus, come in glory

Lord, we remember You
And remembrance leads us to worship
And as we worship You
Our worship leads to communion
We respond to Your invitation
We respond to Your invitation, we remember You

its our focus on Jesus and his grace and it's his grace that makes us faithful


 
Last edited:
Feb 24, 2015
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And that's what lies are.
If we don't belive what we believe is a lie then it's truth.
Jesus came to reveal the lies and replace it with the truth.
That truth is Jesus
Amen, the truth is Jesus.

In this world if people have faith in Jesus and follow I say Amen, welcome brother and sister.
It is by dwelling with Christ that we learn His words to us and learn to know what love with
an open heart really means.

Some of the hardest things is anger generated by random events or miss-understandings,
when opportunity comes, love can be shared despite the situation. And I say Hallelujah,
glory to God, for He is the Lord of Hosts, who desires that we might know His love and
share it, What a King, what a Lord.

We under value love taking out the wrinkles, sorting out who we are, and boy do we have
lots of sorting out to do. 3 years with Jesus and the disciples still got it wrong. This walk
is very different than our worldly idealism would picture it as.

God bless you all, for we are Gods people under His grace and love.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
113
Amen, the truth is Jesus.

In this world if people have faith in Jesus and follow I say Amen, welcome brother and sister.
It is by dwelling with Christ that we learn His words to us and learn to know what love with
an open heart really means.

Some of the hardest things is anger generated by random events or miss-understandings,
when opportunity comes, love can be shared despite the situation. And I say Hallelujah,
glory to God, for He is the Lord of Hosts, who desires that we might know His love and
share it, What a King, what a Lord.

We under value love taking out the wrinkles, sorting out who we are, and boy do we have
lots of sorting out to do. 3 years with Jesus and the disciples still got it wrong. This walk
is very different than our worldly idealism would picture it as.

God bless you all, for we are Gods people under His grace and love.
To me it boils down to one word. That word is love.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,892
29,281
113
Folks don't know what LOVE means unless they receive it from God first.
This is true. God is Love, and His Word is Truth :)

Without that, we wander the world chasing cultural norms :(








 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
Folks don't know what LOVE means unless they receive it from God first.
Until we see God the Lord of Hosts willing to die for us lost sinners, love seems
like a nice extra, rather than the power that drives everything, embedded in our Lord
and embedded in all that is pure and Holy.

I remember when it broke into my heart, I was undone, an unholy sinner lost without
any measure or way to find comparison. To rebel against such as this was so wrong,
yet to aspire to be like the King seemed also impossible, unless in this place He was
also saying we are loved and called into His presence.
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
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0
For me I don't think Jesus is saying that we can do greater things than he has done.
After all what can beat rasing someone from the dead, which Jesus did or walk on water, feed 5000.

Jesus says

John 14:12-14
The Answered Prayer
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.

It seems to tie in with Jesus having to go back to the Father
We know Jesus also said that when he went back then the Holy Spirit would come and as beleivers the Holy Spirit will be in us.

Jesus whilst on earth his ministry was restricted to Galilee and Judaea. He was one person in one area.

We find in Acts that miracles were performed in terms of healing.
We also find that every believer is given a gift(s) which can be public or private gifts (i.e. Praying behind closed doors for others).

So I think the greater works are not the works themselves but magnitude of the works in terms of the geographical area.

The book of Acts.

When Jesus went back to heaven, beleivers were in thier hundreds, 40 days later it numbered thousands and by the end of Acts the gospel wea being preached in Rome.

Acts 28:16


Now when we came to Rome, the centurion delivered the prisoners to the captain of the guard; but Paul was permitted to dwell by himself with the soldier who guarded him.


So to me the greater works are not the works themselves but greater in the extent of where the gospel has been preached and will be preached.
It still doesnt change anything sorry nice try but no cigar mego.. Believer can do the works Of Jesus without being told.. they do it automatically...

This scripture means just that to me billy.. this is beleive and rec ieve that the believer can do great things just like Jesus..but only because he has felt the power of Jesus and his healing power..