Not By Works

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Ariel82

Guest
FranC you claim to be Weslyen.

Can I suggest you read this sermon by John Wesley?

The Wesley Center Online: Sermon 1 - Salvation By Faith

Here is an excerpt:

2. Wherewithal then shall a sinful man atone for any the least of his sins With his own works No. Were they ever so many or holy, they are not his own, but God's. But indeed they are all unholy and sinful themselves, so that every one of them needs a fresh atonement. Only corrupt fruit grows on a corrupt tree. And his heart is altogether corrupt and abominable; being "come short of the glory of God," the glorious righteousness at first impressed on his soul, after the image of his great Creator. Therefore, having nothing, neither righteousness nor works, to plead, his mouth is utterly stopped before God.

3. If then sinful men find favour with God, it is "grace upon grace!" If God vouchsafe still to pour fresh blessings upon us, yea, the greatest of all blessings, salvation; what can we say to these things, but, "Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift!" And thus it is. herein "God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died" to save us "By grace" then "are ye saved through faith." Grace is the source, faith the condition, of salvation.

Now, that we fall not short of the grace of God, it concerns us carefully to inquire, --

I. What faith it is through which we are saved.

II. What is the salvation which is through faith.

III. How we may answer some objections.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Wow FranC....I thought you left this thread....I understand stand that being called a wolf makes anyone defensive...but it shows how mature we really are in Christ...

Do we bless or curse our enemies?

What does Jesus say we should do?

This is getting to be ridiculous on both sides.
It's nice that you ask what JESUS said we should do.
Sometimes I wonder if it wasn't Paul on that cross.
If we all went to the words of Jesus, plain and simple, we'd all agree.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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I agree that we are saved by grace, however I sometimes wonder what it is that people call works? If it was a work when I walked down to the front of the church and confessed Jesus as Savior, then yes work does have a place in salvation. If by works you mean, if I am a really good dad then God will see that and allow me into Heaven, then no( knew a man who actually believed that).
 
Apr 30, 2016
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FranC you claim to be Weslyen.

Can I suggest you read this sermon by John Wesley?

The Wesley Center Online: Sermon 1 - Salvation By Faith

Here is an excerpt:
Ariel, are you serious?
Do you think I'm a pew warmer?
Do I sound like one?

I don't need to read a sermon by John Wesley.
And really I'm through here.

I only came back to respond to Ms. Magenta. She knows why.
I will not be mistreated, especially by people who call themselves Christian but are a far cry from behaving as Jesus instructed in the beatitudes.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Jesus said "I have many things to tell you butyou cannot bear them now. But the Holy Spirit when He comes - He will teach you all things and reveal the things of Me and show them unto you."

The proclamation of Christ produces the profession of Christ, but the explanation of Christ is what produces the experience of Christ.

Believers can never fully enjoy the triumph of the gospel and express Christ in this world victoriously until there has been an explanation and exposition of the vivid details of the redemptive work of Christ that has gained a foothold in our renewed minds.

The 4 gospels were eyewitness accounts of the historical events in the life and ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ. Christianity is based on the veracity of these events as having occurred in real time, in all historicity and specificity.

Nevertheless it is the unveiling of the spiritual realities of these events that relates to the believer in Christ. This is found in the revelation that the Lord Jesus Christ gave to the apostle Paul.

The 4 gospels are the proclamation of the gospel. They disclose to us what men saw. Acts of the apostles is the demonstration of the gospel, but it is Paul's letters which give us an explanation of the gospel. It is the Pauline Epistles that are the constitution of this church age.

Paul's epistles explain what happened from the cross, death, burial, quickening and resurrection to the being seated at the right hand of the Father. Without these epistles we would have no idea what Jesus our Lord actually accomplished for us.

Paul was taught by Jesus Christ Himself to explain His gospel = to reveal the mystery that was hidden in God until it was revealed by Christ to Paul. The mystery being Christ Himself and the riches of that glory is that Christ is in us and we are in union with Him as one spirit!
 
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Ariel82

Guest
From the same article Wesley clearly states that the Faith that saves is not of a heathen or a devil or the Apostles while Jesus walked with them. He describes a saving faith in this manner:

Christian faith is then, not only an assent to the whole gospel of Christ, but also a full reliance on the blood of Christ; a trust in the merits of his life, death, and resurrection; a recumbency upon him as our atonement and our life, as given for us, and living in us; and, in consequence hereof, a closing with him, and cleaving to him, as our "wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption," or, in one word, our salvation.
The Wesley Center Online: Sermon 1 - Salvation By Faith
May we all have this kind of saving Faith.

Only this kind of Faith and reliance on Jesus ,leads to true salvation and freedom from the lies of this world.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I only came back to respond to Ms. Magenta. She knows why.
I will not be mistreated, especially by people who call themselves Christian but are a far cry from behaving as Jesus instructed in the beatitudes.
But you expect others to take YOUR hate filled abuse? LOL.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
I agree that we are saved by grace, however I sometimes wonder what it is that people call works? If it was a work when I walked down to the front of the church and confessed Jesus as Savior, then yes work does have a place in salvation. If by works you mean, if I am a really good dad then God will see that and allow me into Heaven, then no( knew a man who actually believed that).
It was God's work in you that allowed you to walk down that aisle and also to be a good dad,but the only work that can save is Jesus upon the cross...then grace from God to build within you a saving faith.

So it's not by OUR works...but By His works and grace and mercy and love of us, Only by them are we saved.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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He refers to anyone who believe you have to work to get or keep you salvation...do you qualify?

Or do you trust fully in Christ for your salvation and know that He will keep and transform you into the person He wants to to be for His Glory?
You have asked me similar questions as this before.
I am wondering why you are asking when you know the answer?
If I post my beliefs, as fully as I can, is repeating them going to bring a different result.
In the view you are expressing God will achieve His intentions no matter what we think.
So why do I have to even have a belief about it.

This is always the problem with a fatalistic position, it negates faith or belief or free will.
I know Jesus because I have seen Him on the cross for us all, and I know His heart.
I do not need to know more than this. This is why Jesus talks about being like the bronze
snake lifted up in the desert. Jesus is the healing of our hearts.

As you are catagorising me among the "will lie like dogs, embellish, twist" I am saddened.

Love does not work like this or lead people to such conclusions.
Jesus never answered people when they went this far, because conversation had really ended.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Lol I thought that term only works for super hero's and star war movies?
pssst....im kinda a super hero(ive saved a cat from bein stuck behind a couch even though it was tryin to scratch me).... and i got an alias now
 
Nov 22, 2015
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pssst....im kinda a super hero(ive saved a cat from bein stuck behind a couch even though it was tryin to scratch me).... and i got an alias now

Me too...I go by the new super hero of Secret Squirrel!


Shhhh.....don't tell anyone - I am currently "under cover".


 
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Ariel82

Guest
It's nice that you ask what JESUS said we should do.
Sometimes I wonder if it wasn't Paul on that cross.
If we all went to the words of Jesus, plain and simple, we'd all agree.
Paul and Jesus agreed...
.they both said

FORGIVE YOUR ENEMIES.

BLESS THOSE WHO CURSE YOU.

TURN THE OTHER CHEEK

BE ANGER BUT DO NOT SIN,DO BOT LET THE SUN SET UPON YOUR ANGER

LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

IF YOU ONLY LIVE THOSE WHO LOVE YOU, YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN THE WORLD BECAUSE EVEN THEY DO THAT.

FORGIVE EVEN IF THEY DONT DESERVE FORGIVENESS

*****

Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God.

Some days I ask God, is it really worth it?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
pssst....im kinda a super hero(ive saved a cat from bein stuck behind a couch even though it was tryin to scratch me).... and i got an alias now
Lol...love it..

Made my daughter superhero capes that doubled as aprons for her birthday party. The girls loved it.

They had wonder woman, batgirl and super girl on them.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Jesus called people children of Satan, vipers, swine, hypocrites, blind
guides, fools, whitewashed tombs, liars... Or are you a cherry picker?

He did not mince words. Why should I?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Rhetorical question PeterJens...since I know you dont qualify..then the inference is that he isn't talking to you so why are you offended?
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Paul and Jesus agreed...
.they both said

FORGIVE YOUR ENEMIES.

BLESS THOSE WHO CURSE YOU.

TURN THE OTHER CHEEK

BE ANGER BUT DO NOT SIN,DO BOT LET THE SUN SET UPON YOUR ANGER

LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

IF YOU ONLY LIVE THOSE WHO LOVE YOU, YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN THE WORLD BECAUSE EVEN THEY DO THAT.

FORGIVE EVEN IF THEY DONT DESERVE FORGIVENESS

*****

Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God.

Some days I ask God, is it really worth it?
Of they both agreed .. why are we not agreed.?
Did you ever do a study on this?
It's good...
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Of they both agreed .. why are we not agreed.?
Did you ever do a study on this?
It's good...
Cuz you aren't Jesus and neither am I...

Why do you ask?

I study more than most people I know.

However, I know that little kids can show me grace and love in a deeper and more profound way than folks with degrees and lots of worldly knowledge.

I thought you didn't like the whole Greek and Hebrew discussions?