Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

To me it boils down to one word. That word is love.

Love and truth go hand in hand.....they are inseparable.

 

[dcontroversal]

James 2:14-20

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


1 John 2:3-4

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.



James 1:22 - But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.


Hebrews 12:11 - Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Proverbs 12:1 - Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof [is] brutish.

2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Proverbs 15:32 - He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding


John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

revelation 3:55 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


rev 3 :12 / 15-17
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:


Matthew 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Proverbs 24:16-18

16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

17 Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:

18 Lest the Lord see it, and it displease him, and he turn away his wrath from him.

If I had a dime for everytime we have stated that works and fruit are evidenced in a believer's life and the direct result of the faith and salvation one already posseses in Jesus I would have an extra grand in my pocket to burn in Australia......where I am currently at!

 

[PeterJens]

Rhetorical question PeterJens...since I know you dont qualify..then the inference is that he isn't talking to you so why are you offended?

I have no clue anymore what people mean.
The problem with certain contributors, is they do not understand the meaning of the
words, a time and a place.

 

[blue_ladybug]

It's dang near impossible to discuss scripture when those who don't truly believe in it, take it out of context and twist it around to fit their beliefs..

Good luck trying to discuss scripture.

 

[blue_ladybug]

That's not even biblical. Salvation is NOT a "magic wand".. And God isn't a genie in a bottle..

I hope I can make a simple logical point.

The proposition is if you gain the magic wand of salvation by gaining faith in Christ,
which can never be lost, how does behaviour link in with this?

If ones theology does not answer how love and behaviour are linked, ie you cannot
claim to love or know God if you do not love your brother and sister in Christ, salvation
is not a magic wand, but imbedded in who we are in Christ and where our hearts are aimed.

Now the value of a forum like this is to explore such questions, rather than say that group
over there are evil, while we are the sound good people. And if you cannot answer such
basic questions, are you here for the right reasons?

 

[dcontroversal]

its called an epic battle

You got that right...between light and darkness....the one true way (faith alone) as opposed to a way that leads to the pit (works for)

 

[Magenta]

Love and truth go hand in hand.....they are inseparable.

Some will say Truth cannot be known. Should we listen to them?

 

[blue_ladybug]

No, because the Truth was never in them and they are liars..

Some will say Truth cannot be known. Should we listen to them?

 

[PeterJens]

That's not even biblical. Salvation is NOT a "magic wand".. And God isn't a genie in a bottle..

Then how can you get saved and never lose it. What happens if you blaspheme the
Holy Spirit?

The answer to this dilemma is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit becomes not believing
in Jesus, which is just changing scripture.

The great thing about Jesus, is He forgives me and loves me. I am called just to share and
honour Him, not put people right or show them more than they are willing to take.

I am sure the pharisees thought they had beaten Jesus when He died at their hands.
I can see how this plays out, and it is not pretty.

 

[Ariel82]

Love and truth go hand in hand.....they are inseparable.

Truth with out love is clanging cymbals.

Love without truth isn't really love at all but deception and lies.

 

[samuel23]

Hi Ariel: It was certainly the Lord that placed me in a position where I could walk down that aisle, but I walked down that aisle because I chose to. God saved me, but I had something that I had to do, God would not do that part for me, I had to do it. Even though God certainly did a work in my heart, however I had a part if I really wanted to be saved, I had to chose to get up and walk down that aisle and confess Jesus as Savior.

 

[Magenta]

No, because the Truth was never in them and they are liars..

Scripture says we can know. So if someone says we cannot know, they are a liar. I agree

 

[Ariel82]

"Then how can you get saved and never loose"

By having a SAVING FAITH in JESUS and His ability to save people even from themselves. Faith that God will pull you out of the Fire because your foundation is in Christ and not some false idol or gospel.

Again the word you seek is "lose" not "loose".

 

[Magenta]

Truth with out love is clanging cymbals.

Love without truth isn't really love at all but deception and lies.

Where do you draw the line? Jesus called people vipers, dogs, swine, children of the devil, whitewashed tombs, blind fools, liars, hypocrites... are you saying that telling the truth at all times is lacking love if you don't like the message? Did Jesus sin?

 

[Ariel82]

Hi Ariel: It was certainly the Lord that placed me in a position where I could walk down that aisle, but I walked down that aisle because I chose to. God saved me, but I had something that I had to do, God would not do that part for me, I had to do it. Even though God certainly did a work in my heart, however I had a part if I really wanted to be saved, I had to chose to get up and walk down that aisle and confess Jesus as Savior.

Walking down an aisle doesn't save people.
.it's their faith in Jesus that does.

Obedience to God may grow our faith, but it is not the source of our Faith.

 

[Ariel82]

Where do you draw the line? Jesus called people vipers, dogs, swine, children of the devil, whitewashed tombs, blind fools, liars, hypocrites... are you saying that telling the truth at all times is lacking love if you don't like the message? Did Jesus sin?

I draw the line at Jesus commandments to show love and the fact

I AM NOT JESUS AND CAN NOT SEE INTO PEOPLES HEARTS.

Therefore I treat others as God has treated me: with love and patience and kindness,
.he never called me those names...and I know I deserved many more labels before He convicted me of my sins,

No He showed me love, patience, gentleness and kindness.

It's what He expects me to show others.

How did God teach you His truths?

He told me if I had issues with people to look first within and find His peace and His truth.

He taught me to trust that He is mighty to save and protect me. That I didn't need to defend myself, He would do it. Instead to stand for His truth and keep proclaiming His gospel message to the world. Be a light that draws people back to God and His love.life giving water without the salty curses.

 

[blue_ladybug]

How can you get saved? By having faith in Christ and confessing with your mouth that He is your Lord and Savior. A real Christian would NEVER blaspheme the HS.


Blasphemy is denying Jesus. Basically giving him the middle finger salute. :/

If people aren't willing to take ALL of God's truth, then they shouldn't call themselves a Christian. And if YOU honestly believe that salvation is a magic wand that God waves at His leisure, then you really are sorely deluded.

"You can see how this plays out"?? What are you, psychic now or somethin'? You sure ain't omnipotent..

Then how can you get saved and never lose it. What happens if you blaspheme the
Holy Spirit?

The answer to this dilemma is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit becomes not believing
in Jesus, which is just changing scripture.

The great thing about Jesus, is He forgives me and loves me. I am called just to share and
honour Him, not put people right or show them more than they are willing to take.

I am sure the pharisees thought they had beaten Jesus when He died at their hands.
I can see how this plays out, and it is not pretty.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Ariel, even Jesus gave tough love. Sometimes that's the ONLY type of love to show to people, even if they don't like how it's presented to them..

I draw the line at Jesus commandments to show love and the fact

I AM NOT JESUS AND CAN NOT SEE INTO PEOPLES HEARTS.

Therefore I treat others as God has treated me: with love and patience and kindness,
.he never called me those names...and I know I deserved many more labels before He convicted me of my sins,

No He showed me love, patience, gentleness and kindness.

It's what He expects me to show others.

How did God teach you His truths?

 

[Ariel82]

Tough love only works if the other person knows you love them.

 

[samuel23]

Well, the act on my part of walking down that aisle certainly got me saved. My point is that, of course, God does the actual saving of a person, however we have a part to play in salvation also. If we had no part to play in our salvation then all the world would have been saved immediately after Jesus resurrection. Those who are saved did something of their own free will, they accepted Jesus as Savior and committed their self to live for God. Those who do not accept Jesus as Savior and commit to God are not saved, even though Jesus died to save then also. So we have a part in our salvation...but not in the actual saving part.