Walking by the Spirit

[KJV1611]

2 peter 3:14-18 "Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, BE DILIGENT that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and BLAMELESS. 15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother PAULalso according to the wisdom given unto him hath ALSO WRITTEN unto you;

16As also in all HIS EPISTLES, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things HARD TO BE UNDERSTOOD, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. ( warning about pauls letters being complex in nature and easily distorted)

17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, BEWARE lest ye also, being LED AWAY with the error of the wicked, fall from your own STEDFASTNESS. 18But GROW in GRACE, and in the KNOWLEDGE OF OUR LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ.(<< the 4 gospels) TO HIM BE GLORY both now and for ever. Amen."

Is it possible that maybe you are the one not understanding Paul? Is the statement I made below true or not? Nothing personal, just debating the issue.... trying to help open your eyes.

Paul thanking God through Jesus Christ (converted to Christianity) says I (presently not when he was under the law) serve the law of God with my mind but serve the law of sin with his flesh.

Romans 7:25 KJV
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Spiritman367]

as for me im staying in Romans 8!

 

[KJV1611]

the whole thing is past tense and you keep going in circles

Where is the past tense word in those verses?

 

[stonesoffire]

You click on the little star shaped symbol to the left, under your name and info. A little box pops up then. I didn't know either first coming here.

 

[Grace777x70]

Jesus said "I have many things to tell you but you cannot bear them now. But the Holy Spirit when He comes - He will teach you all things and reveal the things of Me and show them unto you."

Meaning - Jesus had many other things to tell us but the disciples couldn't understand them yet - Jesus has used Paul to show what these things are by the Holy Spirit. You do not get these in the 4 gospels. The words spoken to Paul are from Jesus' words and are just as valid.

The proclamation of Christ produces the profession of Christ, but the explanation of Christ is what produces the experience of Christ.

Believers can never fully enjoy the triumph of the gospel and express Christ in this world victoriously until there has been an explanation and exposition of the vivid details of the redemptive work of Christ that has gained a foothold in our renewed minds.

The 4 gospels were eyewitness accounts of the historical events in the life and ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ. Christianity is based on the veracity of these events as having occurred in real time, in all historicity and specificity.

Nevertheless it is the unveiling of the spiritual realities of these events that relates to the believer in Christ. This is found in the revelation that the Lord Jesus Christ gave to the apostle Paul.

The 4 gospels are the proclamation of the gospel. They disclose to us what men saw. Acts of the apostles is the demonstration of the gospel, but it is Paul's letters which give us an explanation of the gospel. It is the Pauline Epistles that are the constitution of this church age.

Paul's epistles explain what happened from the cross, death, burial, quickening and resurrection to the being seated at the right hand of the Father. Without these epistles we would have no idea what Jesus our Lord actually accomplished for us.

Paul was taught by Jesus Christ Himself to explain His gospel = to reveal the mystery that was hidden in God until it was revealed by Christ to Paul. The mystery being Christ Himself and the riches of that glory is that Christ is in us and we are in union with Him as one spirit!

These "explanations" of the mystery of the gospel that Christ is in us - cannot be found openly in the 4 gospels themselves. We need to marry the things Paul said with the words of Jesus in the 4 gospels.

It is in Paul's explanation of the gospel that Christ is in us - the hope of glory where we find the nutrients to walk by the spirit.

 

[Spiritman367]

Where is the past tense word in those verses?

13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? Certainly not! But in order that sin might be exposed as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

key word produced is past tense

 

[CherieR]

To me according to Romans 8:9, it looks like if we have the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us then we are walking in the spirit. Nothing to do with our actions other than having Christ in us.

Romans 8:9 KJV
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So what you are saying is we will walk by the Spirit since the Spirit of Christ is in us?

 

[KJV1611]

13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? Certainly not! But in order that sin might be exposed as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

key word produced is past tense

I'm talking about here where Paul says his flesh still serves the law of sin.

Romans 7:25 KJV
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[G00WZ]

as for me im staying in Romans 8!

you catch on quick

 

[KJV1611]

So what you are saying is we will walk by the Spirit since the Spirit of Christ is in us?

That's what Romans 8:9 says. We are in the spirit IF the spirit of God dwells in us.

 

[followjesus]

There is a difference between the noun called "sin" talked about in Romans Chapters 6 & 7 and "sinning" as a verb which is the doing of the influence of sin.

If any one is interested - this post talks about it. I think this will help in the understanding of things. It has helped me immensely anyways.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...se-who-deny-sin-believer-139.html#post3070195


This is the companion post that goes with the above one.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...se-who-deny-sin-believer-139.html#post3070214

Combine this with the reality of the circumcision of the flesh and heart by the circumcision of Christ - where the body of sin is "cut away" from the inner man in Christ. Col. 2:11

The revelation of these truths has made me live a holier life then I ever dreamed possible and it is all done by walking by the spirit and beholding Christ Himself in me as 2 Cor. 3:17-18 talks about.

When we see Him and His goodness/glory in that mirror - we see who we are really are now in Him. Joined as one spirit with the Lord. This is one of the ways of God and a dynamic of the kingdom in how it operates within us.

If anyone be in Christ - they are a new creation - old things are passed away - "Behold" ( which means to look, to see, to perceive ) all things have become new.

What are these "new things" that are true because we are in Christ and Christ is in us? Seeing Christ for who He is - transforms us to be outwardly what already is in our new creation.

He is what He said and how He said, not how we want Him to be or want to make Him seem. He presented Himself operfectly in His words the 4 gospels, thats where we see Jesus

 

[followjesus]

You click on the little star shaped symbol to the left, under your name and info. A little box pops up then. I didn't know either first coming here.

thank you so much friend, now im armed with some capability to rep point folks !! i see great posts all the time and just am so technilogically challeged, it was a hard one for me !! God bless

 

[followjesus]

That's what Romans 8:9 says. We are in the spirit IF the spirit of God dwells in us.

can i ask you something, i have been trying to understand what your view is of this. am i wrong to see this

You are saying while we are alive on earth, were all in the flesh ? but have the spirit in us, and when Jesus returns then we will be made right with God? but while we are alive on earth, we cant ever please God?

like being " in the flesh" litterally means being in our flesh bodies? im honestly trying to understand your position...

 

[stonesoffire]

Rom 7:25 Thank God through Jesus the Messiah, our Lord, because with my mind I myself can serve the Law of God, even while with my human nature I serve the law of sin.

This is the struggle of a religious man or woman under law. A double mindedness.

Rom 8:4 so that the righteous requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to human nature but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

Rom 8:6 To focus our minds on the human nature leads to death, but to focus our minds on the Spirit leads to life and peace.

 

[stonesoffire]

thank you so much friend, now im armed with some capability to rep point folks !! i see great posts all the time and just am so technilogically challeged, it was a hard one for me !! God bless

My pleasure.

 

[followjesus]

Being led of the Spirit does not mean we might not sin,for we are still in the flesh,and still have the capacity to sin if we desire to sin,but if we do not want sin,and mean it,by the Spirit we can abstain from sin,as long as we do not want to sin,for when we are tempted God will not put on us more than we are able,so we can endure it,and will give us an escape from the temptation,which the temptation on a saint is lessened in intensity of the pull on them compared to the world,and the Spirit will lead the person to do good.

And as far as sinless perfection it cannot come on this earth,for while a person can abstain from sin at the time they do not want sin,led by the Spirit,we are still in the flesh,and as long as there is a war between our flesh,and the Spirit,wanting to have control in our life,we cannot have sinless perfection,for in sinless perfection there is no war in the person between good,and evil,but they can only see good,and can only do good,with no possible way to sin for the possibility is not there,and they would not be tempted to sin.

The fact that we are tempted to sin testifies against sinless perfection,for even if a saint went 5 years with nary a sin,they still do not have sinless perfection,for they are tempted,and could be a remote possibility that they might sin.

The only exception among humans is the man Christ Jesus,who was tempted,but since He is God manifest in the flesh,and always led by the Spirit with no chance of being otherwise,He could not sin,and it was impossible for Him to sin,so He had sinless perfection,but the saints will not have it until they are out of the flesh,and with Jesus,for then they are not tempted anymore to sin,and they do not have the possibility to sin.

i think that the war you are talking about is what paul is addressing, in romans 7 but if we put that together with chapter 8 Paul is telling us How to win that war. we can have true freedom, and those sins behind us can be cast into the deepest dea never to be remembered again. God is great that way. freedom from sin, IS absolutely possible. does that make us " sinless"? consider that each of us are not Held to the other persons standard, because Like Jesus is now personal to us, sin is also a personal thing to us.

james 4:17 "Therefore to him that KNOWETH to do good, and doeth it not, TO HIM it is sin."

sin isnt defined in shristianity according to the mosaic Law, were dead to that now romans 6-7. Now we are each on a personal walk with Jesus, and as we learn of righteousness, we are to walk in it. a person who knows much scripture is more accountable than a new believer who Knows little. its why we cant Judge according to Jesus our fellow man, but in the mosaic Law, judging and ounishing others sins, was commanded.

in those days sin was according to the letter and tittle of the Law, even a person who didnt Know they were sinning was punished harshly. Now we have Jesus with us by the spirit of truth ( john 14) so our consciences are what determine sin and righteousness by that spirit, and it is measured according to the things we know we are taught by the Lord to do, and not to do.

"a pledge of a clear conscience before God" is what our standard is now. God being in us, knows what we Know, He knows if we are doing wrong in ignorance, or willfully in Knowledge. we cant pretend we dont Know, and arent accountable for what we do Know. the only way to keeo a clear conscience today, is to follow the word we Know in our minds and Hearts.

this may sound strange but those who are not willing to obey Jesus, shouldnt be learning mountains of information, because the More we know, the more accountability raises, that being said, who wouldnt be willing to obey Jesus after He gave His suffering, and blood, shed His life to save ours ? its a matter of Love for the Lord Who bought us.

 

[KJV1611]

can i ask you something, i have been trying to understand what your view is of this. am i wrong to see this

You are saying while we are alive on earth, were all in the flesh ? but have the spirit in us, and when Jesus returns then we will be made right with God? but while we are alive on earth, we cant ever please God?

like being " in the flesh" litterally means being in our flesh bodies? im honestly trying to understand your position...

My point is that with our minds we love the law and love to do good, but our flesh (not the covering on our body) the "no good thing" that Paul talks about, that gets in our way and we can't 100% of the time (actually no where near 100%) do the good things that our hearts desire to do. Same is true with resisting the bad things we want to do, sometimes we are successful but more times than not we are not - IT'S OUR NATURE. That nature will never go away until we are translated or die. THE FLESH IS NOT REDEEMABLE. I'm not yelling by the way lol, I'm emphasizing.

I'm no different than you, you sin just as much as I do. You fail to do the good things you want to do sometimes just like I do. That is exactly what Paul is talking about in Romans 7 which should be a comfort to all of us knowing that BURDEN OF GUILT has been removed. There is nothing hard about the Christain life, we don't have to work and if we do good works or stop some particular sin for a period of time, it was not us that did it, it was God. And if we were the ones who did it, it's filthy rags to God.

Being a Christian has nothing to do with how much we sin! Being a Christian has everything to do with knowing our savior and developing a relationship with Him. Think about it, would we as fathers love our children less if we heard them say a curse word or caught them stealing or watching something they shouldn't be watching... of course we would still love them and WE ARE EVIL FATHERS. Our relationship with our kids is not performance based and neither is our relationship with God performance based - God loved us WHEN WE WERE YET SINNERS.

Telling people they have to stuggle with sin and over come it is bondage, it is no different than the Pharisees bondage. If God wills to deliver us from something then he will and we wont have to work for it. Again Christianity has nothing to do with SIN! It's about loving God and our neighbors with all our hearts.

Probably more than yu asked for lol.

 

[KJV1611]

Rom 7:25 Thank God through Jesus the Messiah, our Lord, because with my mind I myself can serve the Law of God, even while with my human nature I serve the law of sin.

This is the struggle of a religious man or woman under law. A double mindedness.

Rom 8:4 so that the righteous requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to human nature but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

Rom 8:6 To focus our minds on the human nature leads to death, but to focus our minds on the Spirit leads to life and peace.

What do you do to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law?

 

[Meggido]

My point is that with our minds we love the law and love to do good, but our flesh (not the covering on our body) the "no good thing" that Paul talks about, that gets in our way and we can't 100% of the time (actually no where near 100%) do the good things that our hearts desire to do. Same is true with resisting the bad things we want to do, sometimes we are successful but more times than not we are not - IT'S OUR NATURE. That nature will never go away until we are translated or die. THE FLESH IS NOT REDEEMABLE. I'm not yelling by the way lol, I'm emphasizing.

I'm no different than you, you sin just as much as I do. You fail to do the good things you want to do sometimes just like I do. That is exactly what Paul is talking about in Romans 7 which should be a comfort to all of us knowing that BURDEN OF GUILT has been removed. There is nothing hard about the Christain life, we don't have to work and if we do good works or stop some particular sin for a period of time, it was not us that did it, it was God. And if we were the ones who did it, it's filthy rags to God.

Being a Christian has nothing to do with how much we sin! Being a Christian has everything to do with knowing our savior and developing a relationship with Him. Think about it, would we as fathers love our children less if we heard them say a curse word or caught them stealing or watching something they shouldn't be watching... of course we would still love them and WE ARE EVIL FATHERS. Our relationship with our kids is not performance based and neither is our relationship with God performance based - God loved us WHEN WE WERE YET SINNERS.

Telling people they have to stuggle with sin and over come it is bondage, it is no different than the Pharisees bondage. If God wills to deliver us from something then he will and we wont have to work for it. Again Christianity has nothing to do with SIN! It's about loving God and our neighbors with all our hearts.

Probably more than yu asked for lol.

Before salvation you were a sinner that needed to be saved by grace

After salvation you are no longer a sinner, but a sin forgiven son of God, a saint, an heir, a Brother

This does not mean you will never sin or nor am I advocating sinless perfection.

If you SIN it is because you chose to SIN.


SINNER is past, Saint is new creature.

 

[Meggido]

What do you do to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law?

Whihc law are you asking about?
Romans 8.2 says:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

For someone who says they know Romans 8 backwards and forwards, you sure do not seem to know its truth.