Not By Works

FranC · May 23, 2017

Good Morning Vietnam!!...

Oh. Mistake. This is a Christian Forum!!
Silly me.

I forgot.

WHY am I a liar just because I don't agree with you?

Could you explain that one to me again.

Thanks.

P.S. The fact that you're a soldier, does that have anythng to do with why you use derogatory terms all the time?

FranC · May 23, 2017

dcontroversal said:

You're talking about me here.
You just can't stop.
And that's with the Holy Spirit helping you along!

1. Those who believe as I do are ignorant.

2. I reject the grace of God.

3. I believe in a false gospel.

4. It ends by my going to hell.

5. I boast about my works.

You're a good Christian Dcon.
Just keep spreading that love around.
It proves to everyone what a great guy you are.

If you were NOT Christian, you shouldn't behave this way.
Maybe another read of Mathew 5 is in order?

PeterJens · May 23, 2017

mailmandan said:

My friend you live in a very christian bubble.

I am sorry you do not see this. When people get upset they often
go too far.

Before the cross is a very holy place. It is the power house of our faith
and the one thing deepest in our hearts. It is a place I would gladly bring
anyone, and it is never a place I can speak of what it means because it
is between the Lord and each individual.

So to create such a contrast shows how little these things mean to you
and how hard you heart truly is. And that does grieve me, and all who blindly
agree with you. We are very far apart, and nothing will bridge that gap other
than a revelation to each one in the Lord.

It also demonstrates why you do not understand what I am sharing or who I
am. Forgive them Lord for they truly do not know what they are doing.

Amen.

PeterJens · May 23, 2017

dcontroversal said:

dc - I cannot make it more plain. Your view of faith does not work.
You cannot have God doing everything and then you choosing, and judgement being on your
choice. This is by definition a contradiction.

It is like saying I cross the road by being put in a wheel chair and wheeled across, I do nothing.
And I cross the road because I walk across it of my own free will. If I do not cross the road I
will be tortured in hell forever and if I cross I can never go back.

Both realities cannot exist together in the same belief system.

Now I have tried to use language to describe this. It goes outside the convention one gives the
most important issue and not the constraints, or conditions around it.

So we are saved by faith in Jesus, and He has done enough to gain us forgiveness of sins. Amen.
But this is only applied when we believe and have faith in Him and the cross.

So by emphasising this step of faith as a condition of salvation, which you freely believe also, I
must not be a believer. If I am not a believer then so are you not one.

This is the problem with labels, you have to be specific and know how they apply. You went to
theological college yet are very weak on this. Maybe that is why you never went into real ministry.

Is this why cc is now your ministry, to fight the fight against the infidel within the faith?

If I am your evil infidel, I pity the poor believers who cannot answer back so well to your
onslaughts.

mailmandan · May 23, 2017

PeterJens said:

You really don't know me at all and only God truly knows my heart. As usual, you don't really know what you're talking about, but you just could not resist the opportunity.

NoNameMcgee · May 23, 2017

https://youtu.be/0fKGogH65z4

Ariel82 · May 23, 2017

Yeah strawmen aplenty. It's a rite ole bonfire in here.

Ariel82 · May 23, 2017

NoNameMcgee said:

Discerning sound doctrine?

Sounds like an interesting video.

NoNameMcgee · May 23, 2017

Ariel82 said:

some people could be reminded where to look for their information....

i pray people ignore some of the vain teachings i see on here and return to the Word of God

Stephen63 · May 23, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Why, do you want me to?

Everybody should know by now their teachings aren't good enuff to write on toilet paper.

PeterJens · May 23, 2017

mailmandan said:

This is not difficult. If I will not cross a road and you will, and I comment on the fact you
are happy to do this, that is all I am referring to. It is not some deep insight or I am claiming
some great revelation..

Trampling over someones faith is not what they would say is a loving approach.
Then denying you have any knowledge of such a thing, is doubly a problem.

Love is about empathy, walking in anothers shoes. Are you trying to persuade me Christs
love alone saves through faith, which I believe, or some other agenda I am not aware of?

Loving your enemy always leads to real wisdom and insight. But hey, Christ only commands
us to love our enemies, so no problems, desecrating their symbols is how you win over
their hearts. Problem is when this very symbol is the same Lord you worship as Lord and
King, maybe things are not as they appear.

Ariel82 · May 23, 2017

FranC said:

So do you agree with Jimbo that if you don't do good works, you won't be glorified/ receive a new resurrected body when Jesus return?

And yeah most of us understand the concept of progressive salvation being past, present and future in nature. In that case the question was specifically meant to learn Jimbo's belief and word usage. Which he answered quite nicely himself.

Stephen63 · May 23, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

EVERYBODY that doesn't believe his doctrine is "works based"

Ever notice those that live in easy believism won't use the "fruit" scriptures, because if they did, they would have to explain them all away.

Every scripture that plainly say a christian can rebel & lose his salvation is re-explained without scripture backing, & accusing others of being "works-based"

Thing is, they would say anything to twist it their way, & using their "one-verse wonders" to prove it.

It's sad they'll scour the whole Bible to find these one-verse wonders, yet won't read all the paragraphs that proves they're wrong.

True rebels, they are.

Ariel82 · May 23, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Not sure if anyone has bought into it. Most have no clue what you are referring to.

Grace777x70 · May 23, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

A Works-based/works-righteousness salvation belief system is anything that we think we have to do in order to be acceptable to God, create or maintain righteousness, other then believing in what Christ has already done by grace through faith alone.

In this believing of Christ's work - this releases His life to walk out what we are already in our new creation that is in Christ. The inner man of the heart.

Right believing in Christ produces right thinking ( a transformed mind ) which produces right living that brings His life and goodness so that others can know the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

It is the way of the kingdom. Christ is the Alpha and the Omega in all things. He is our life, our righteousness, our wisdom, our sanctification, our redemption. It is Him!

In Him was the life and that life is the light of men.

This is what I actually say and the fruit of union with Christ is talked about in showing the grace and love of our loving Father and Lord to others.....

PeterJens · May 23, 2017

Some are easily taken in.
If you are a strong empathetic person, and want people to agree with you, even when
they do not, it is easy to project ones own interpretations onto their statements. They can
mean them in an extreme and often wrong way but they can appear superficially ok.

So take a little phrase, we have been brainwashed into our religious beliefs. This is a very
strong statement. It is claiming they have a radically different way of looking at morality.
Pol Pot had a radical new way of looking at morality, 3 million people probably died as a result.
ISIS have a radical view on morality, hundreds of thousands have died, and millions displaced.

Our whole legal system, business ethics, trade is based on biblical morality and outlook, so
these concepts matter. The difference between law and lawlessness is no minor issue, in
the personal and the civil arena.

So being nice and empathetic is not being real or seeing the potential poison at work.
The effect of the church on society is to be salt and light.

Here we have a group claiming this salt and light, is darkness and the pit of hell.
There is nothing nice and furry about this, rather it is either from the pit itself or
self delusion, but it is no idle set of ideas.

And what I am standing for is not radical faith, but middle of the road evangelical
theology. So to make me this enemy, is very, very, very bad news.

What is stunning is theological contradictions and failures seem not to rattle people,
the force of their emotional conviction and condemnation is so strong they believe
they are right and the infidel should submit no matter what. But where is the love?
Where is the biblical authority or truth?

Ariel82 · May 23, 2017

Current strawmen at auction:

Sinless perfection man & easy believism/sin as you want man......

You know why there can't be any discussion?

Both sides erect strawmen and proceed yelling at them they are wrong, without actually listening to what the other person says.

The issue isn't that one side believes in cheap grace and the other believes in sinless perfection.

The main issue is the topic of justification.

1. How does one become justified?
2. Does justification alone equal salvation or must you also be sanctified?
3. How does justification change a person?
4. What is sanctification?

As far as I can tell...number 2 is where the issue starts...

Some feel that justification isn't enough for salvation but you must also be sanctified by your good works or bear fruit.

Others that if you add sanctification to justification,you are undermining the foundation of Faith in Christ and that SALVATION is based solely on justification...however sanctification will be a fruit of having received salvation.

I guess you have to 4. define salvation too, because thereis probably different views on what that is also.

Ariel82 · May 23, 2017

Peterjens, it's in the same place where someone who agrees with you accused me of believing in cheap grace.

Strawmen arguments that go no where and are not edifying but vitriol rants used to "build up" an argument by tearing someone else down.

What it shows is a lack of maturity. Not that their doctrines are demonic. Just that their pride has overcome their training from God.

Yes I know I speak sharply at times, because I hope to shock people out of their complacent self righteous rants.

If they are going to attack anyone, I would it rather be me because I know what God says and their lies do not change His love and affection for me.

FranC · May 23, 2017

Ariel82 said:

So do you agree with Jimbo that if you don't do good works, you won't be glorified/ receive a new resurrected body when Jesus return?

And yeah most of us understand the concept of progressive salvation being past, present and future in nature. In that case the question was specifically meant to learn Jimbo's belief and word usage. Which he answered quite nicely himself.

Sure.
Jesus said it.
Not me.

mailmandan · May 23, 2017

PeterJens said:

It's not difficult to understand that we do not earn the grace of God through religious acts and that salvation is by grace through faith. That is the point that I was making with the meme that I posted, yet you trampled all over my point and created a straw man argument.

That statement is the epitome of irony.

PeterJens said:

Straw man argument.

PeterJens said:

Maybe you are confusing me with yourself.

PeterJens said:

Another straw man argument. At lest blue_ladybug got it.

blue_ladybug said:

Not By Works

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