Not By Works
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It is ridiculous to even compare radical Islamist fools to a believer in Christ who has trusted into the saving faith of Christ....Jim this comparison you have made and then like by Peter is the exact reason why I call you guys cake takers....because it takes the cake and tops the list of statements that are as contrary as they come!
Coined phrases by those who will be in the "plenteous in number grouping" that get cast for trusting into themselves over Jesus does not bother me....I will gladly wait for the day that the workers for and cakes takers find out that salvation was by grace through faith void of works.....!
The bible is clear....NOT by works of righteousness which WE HAVE DONE, but ACCORDING to HIS MERCY has HE SAVED US!
This one verse alone alleviates works as a means of salvation...if one cannot work to get it, one cannot work to keep it....if works it is no longer GRACE....the verse quoted states it is BY GRACE not WORKS!
The bible is clear....NOT by works of righteousness which WE HAVE DONE, but ACCORDING to HIS MERCY has HE SAVED US!
This one verse alone alleviates works as a means of salvation...if one cannot work to get it, one cannot work to keep it....if works it is no longer GRACE....the verse quoted states it is BY GRACE not WORKS!
I would say that those who label grace as "cheap" or "greasy" have no idea about grace and or the saving faith of Jesus....I can see one particular member behind his pulpit hammering grace and pushing works and self along with hyper sensationalised spiritualized back flips down the isle for salvation........along with give the dog a bone theology.............
On a side not....good afternoon my friends from Port Douglas, Queensland Australia....3:37 P.M. on Wednesday and we did a 4000 meter hike through the Mossman Gorge....a nice tropical rain forest.....was excellent...got soaked, and one dude on the bus had leaches....but over all was an excellent hike.
Does seem that way, but I believe there are a mix of wheat and tares believing this.
I've come across actual born again believers who speak truth but have embraced this teaching (itching ears? Not familiar with scripture?), and at the same time you have the non believers that hold to a conditional salvation that requires certain works to be added to the blood of Christ. I recall the catholic church listed assurance as an anathema even.
Just one example (council of trent): If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema.
I've come across actual born again believers who speak truth but have embraced this teaching (itching ears? Not familiar with scripture?), and at the same time you have the non believers that hold to a conditional salvation that requires certain works to be added to the blood of Christ. I recall the catholic church listed assurance as an anathema even.
Just one example (council of trent): If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema.
You guys have easy believism all wrong...
Easy believism are those who might have a mental assent toward the Gospel but not a real saving faith. False converts, or someone who wants a security blanket but doesn't actually believe. Some of the ones ya'll are attacking for being against false conversion actually believe just like you do and are on the side of the doctrine of grace. I'm with them. True conversion requires real saving faith by grace.
Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.
Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.
Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.
Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone.
Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace (saved by grace alone through faith alone)
Perseverance of the Saints (the very doctrine you are here defending AKA OSAS absent of works)
While you may not agree with TULIP, it is 100% absent of the works of men and we all agree on the doctrine of salvation by grace alone through faith alone. Easy believism is just a way of saying the person never truly believed, they just recited a prayer that lost meaning once their emotional high or whatever it is wears off. Their faith is not truly in Christ. Maybe they were peer pressured, or scared of death, or agree what people say about Jesus, but have no trust or faith in him. Demons do that last one after all...
No true conversion = no justification, and no justification = no sanctification. We learn this from Romans 8 in regards to those who believe (have real saving faith)
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Has nothing at all to do with works to attain or retain salvation. Has to do with false conversion, mental assent, no saving faith, fakes. We also learn this in 1 John:
1 John 5
Overcoming the World
5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
Again, has nothing to do with works to attain or retain salvation, but the born again child of God will strive to obey Christ. If they don't, they get this unless they are illegitimate (in fact, I'm sure we all as children of God experience this from time to time, no?):
Do Not Grow Weary
3 Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. 4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?
“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor be weary when reproved by him.
6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”
7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
Easy believism are those who might have a mental assent toward the Gospel but not a real saving faith. False converts, or someone who wants a security blanket but doesn't actually believe. Some of the ones ya'll are attacking for being against false conversion actually believe just like you do and are on the side of the doctrine of grace. I'm with them. True conversion requires real saving faith by grace.
Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.
Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.
Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.
Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone.
Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace (saved by grace alone through faith alone)
Perseverance of the Saints (the very doctrine you are here defending AKA OSAS absent of works)
While you may not agree with TULIP, it is 100% absent of the works of men and we all agree on the doctrine of salvation by grace alone through faith alone. Easy believism is just a way of saying the person never truly believed, they just recited a prayer that lost meaning once their emotional high or whatever it is wears off. Their faith is not truly in Christ. Maybe they were peer pressured, or scared of death, or agree what people say about Jesus, but have no trust or faith in him. Demons do that last one after all...
No true conversion = no justification, and no justification = no sanctification. We learn this from Romans 8 in regards to those who believe (have real saving faith)
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Has nothing at all to do with works to attain or retain salvation. Has to do with false conversion, mental assent, no saving faith, fakes. We also learn this in 1 John:
1 John 5
Overcoming the World
5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
Again, has nothing to do with works to attain or retain salvation, but the born again child of God will strive to obey Christ. If they don't, they get this unless they are illegitimate (in fact, I'm sure we all as children of God experience this from time to time, no?):
Do Not Grow Weary
3 Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. 4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?
“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor be weary when reproved by him.
6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”
7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
How do you know if you can lose something or not? Only if you lose it. If it can never be lost so what?
What is being claimed is the belief something can never be lost is salvation or is the definition of faith.
But you have replaced Christ with a belief idol.
So I stand before the Lord and am judged not on my transformation and growth in the Kingdom but did
I trust I could not be lost. Deluded, the idol of security.
And with this idol, all faithful followers of Christ are to be judged, and told they are "cake takers" unbelievers
and no spiritual reality is real before this idol.
Unfortunately idolatry is sin, judging other believers on this basis is sin. It is a simple delusion based on
deep insecurity. The claim is without this idol one would be a non-believer, always trying to prove our
faithfulness to our King. These people have not seen the vastness of the cross and Christ's love for us.
To know Christ is to know the cross. The cross is the most God could ever do to say, I will be with you,
trust me, obey me, walk in my ways, open your hearts and repent, hold nothing back, empty yourself,
knowing in weakness Gods strength shall be perfected.
People are fearful, prideful excusers of sin, wanting when fear breaks in to have an out.
God says here I am, here is love, but you must give up your life to find it, realising what
you loose is death and what you gain is eternal life.
We are secure in Christs love, in the cross, but not in an idolatry belief.
So weird is this insecurity some say to not have this idolatry is the worst evil in the world
except it is not in the 10 commandments, not in Christs commandments so this is a lie.
The idolatry plays to those who seek safety rather than love, protection rather than truth,
religion rather than true relationship and being one in Gods family.
It plays on give to us and you will be rich and successful, things will go well and not bad,
no dream you have cannot be fulfilled in Christ, poverty resolved.
Will they repent or find themselves lost and under judgement? Idolatry is dangerous, when
your idol fails, faith disappears, then you have nothing.
God tests us. Love always shines a light on the heart, and if repentance does not come, a
delusion will carry you away to make a shipwreck of ones faith.
What is being claimed is the belief something can never be lost is salvation or is the definition of faith.
But you have replaced Christ with a belief idol.
So I stand before the Lord and am judged not on my transformation and growth in the Kingdom but did
I trust I could not be lost. Deluded, the idol of security.
And with this idol, all faithful followers of Christ are to be judged, and told they are "cake takers" unbelievers
and no spiritual reality is real before this idol.
Unfortunately idolatry is sin, judging other believers on this basis is sin. It is a simple delusion based on
deep insecurity. The claim is without this idol one would be a non-believer, always trying to prove our
faithfulness to our King. These people have not seen the vastness of the cross and Christ's love for us.
To know Christ is to know the cross. The cross is the most God could ever do to say, I will be with you,
trust me, obey me, walk in my ways, open your hearts and repent, hold nothing back, empty yourself,
knowing in weakness Gods strength shall be perfected.
People are fearful, prideful excusers of sin, wanting when fear breaks in to have an out.
God says here I am, here is love, but you must give up your life to find it, realising what
you loose is death and what you gain is eternal life.
We are secure in Christs love, in the cross, but not in an idolatry belief.
So weird is this insecurity some say to not have this idolatry is the worst evil in the world
except it is not in the 10 commandments, not in Christs commandments so this is a lie.
The idolatry plays to those who seek safety rather than love, protection rather than truth,
religion rather than true relationship and being one in Gods family.
It plays on give to us and you will be rich and successful, things will go well and not bad,
no dream you have cannot be fulfilled in Christ, poverty resolved.
Will they repent or find themselves lost and under judgement? Idolatry is dangerous, when
your idol fails, faith disappears, then you have nothing.
God tests us. Love always shines a light on the heart, and if repentance does not come, a
delusion will carry you away to make a shipwreck of ones faith.
Hi PJ,
I'm beginning to realize that loss of salvation must ABSOLUTELY be true, just like the early Church fathers knew and taught.
Why?
Because just look at these posts and you can know who believes in loss of salvation and who doesn't.
Those that DO believe in eternal eternal security do not shine the light of God onto these pages. Maybe because they live under the false impression that they are not required to follow the laws of God and that they can behave however they want to behave and still not lose their salvation.
Big Mistake.
Some believe they're in the Kingdom of God, but are only looking at it from the outside. Their behavior would suggest that they are not a part of it. I've seen enough hate and name calling on here in this past month to last me a really long time. And this from persons who call themselves christian. They are an embarassement to christianity. Jesus wept over Jerusalem, as He must surely weep at some of these persons.
They know nothing about the love of God because the love of God heals us of many afflictions and some here have not been healed.
We can only pray for them, that one day they might truly come to know the love of God.
Then, if correct doctrine follows, instead of their made-up sugar coated beliefs which are wrong but suit their misguided character, well, all the better.
Sugar-coated beliefs are an absolute necessity when one DOES NOT WANT to follow the rules Jesus left us with.
Evil shall be called good.
And good shall be called evil.
Those who DO NOT follow God's laws feel they are saved....
and tell those who DO follow God's laws they are going to the pit.
This is all very interesting. And very demonic, I might add.
Be seeng you around...
I'm beginning to realize that loss of salvation must ABSOLUTELY be true, just like the early Church fathers knew and taught.
Why?
Because just look at these posts and you can know who believes in loss of salvation and who doesn't.
Those that DO believe in eternal eternal security do not shine the light of God onto these pages. Maybe because they live under the false impression that they are not required to follow the laws of God and that they can behave however they want to behave and still not lose their salvation.
Big Mistake.
Some believe they're in the Kingdom of God, but are only looking at it from the outside. Their behavior would suggest that they are not a part of it. I've seen enough hate and name calling on here in this past month to last me a really long time. And this from persons who call themselves christian. They are an embarassement to christianity. Jesus wept over Jerusalem, as He must surely weep at some of these persons.
They know nothing about the love of God because the love of God heals us of many afflictions and some here have not been healed.
We can only pray for them, that one day they might truly come to know the love of God.
Then, if correct doctrine follows, instead of their made-up sugar coated beliefs which are wrong but suit their misguided character, well, all the better.
Sugar-coated beliefs are an absolute necessity when one DOES NOT WANT to follow the rules Jesus left us with.
Evil shall be called good.
And good shall be called evil.
Those who DO NOT follow God's laws feel they are saved....
and tell those who DO follow God's laws they are going to the pit.
This is all very interesting. And very demonic, I might add.
Be seeng you around...
Nothing bu bloviated lies here....thise who push works and the loss of eternal life are the ones hiding the light and peddling darkness and lies thay take one straight to hell...your rejection of verb tense , verbiage in context, the definition of words while embracing false pretense and religion over Jesus proves who leads you Fran...and Magenta is right in her assessment of you....vacillating, argumenative, two faced and dual souled....you may be able to deceive the ignorant and unlearned, but those who study see right through your false gospel and deceitful tactics....you should study Jude and Peter...a very dark day of misery coming for all who reject the gospel of grace in favor of a selfish works for pseudo salvation while peddling something that does not lead to salvation, but rather eternal judgment.....serious!
Life and love. Just listen to Jesus. He brought light to peoples heart, forgiveness, acceptance,
a real sense of a new start.
I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
John 10:10
Is there one commandment Jesus brings us we cannot keep for 5 minutes?
Now that 5 minutes is Holy, perfect, pleasing to God. So take that forward to 1 hour, to 3 hours,
to half a day, to a day, to a week, to a month, to a year, to a lifetime.
And the heart of this is one word, love, focused on God the creator, working through that
which is appropriate. And the source of healing is the cross, is seeing in your mind God the
creator becoming man and dying for you. This is the healing we need, this is the continual
reminder we must carry to know, it is this love that is our life.
And the door to this walk, repentance, the giving up of our life in the world for a life with
Christ learning the way of love.
Now either you take the idolatry of belief as your security or you repent of your sins and
start following Christ. Our security is in the cross and Christs love, which is our service,
our salvation, the thing that drives us on. It is why I share here, am driven to praise my
King, because there is no greater love than the one He expressed through the cross, so
while it seems to make life two dimensional for some, it is life eternal.
And this statement
Nothing bu bloviated lies here
peddling darkness and lies thay take one straight to hell
This is the strangest delusional condemnation of the very words and intent of Christ.
You can choose which line you want to follow, but the words demonstrate where
emotionally you end up, the fruit of this position, what you are sowing to.
And to put this into perspective, within 20 years many here will be seeing the Lord
face to face, so idolatry of belief will mean nothing,
Get right with God before He gets right with you by repenting of your sin.
Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Grieve, mourn and wail.
Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4:8-10
a real sense of a new start.
I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
John 10:10
Is there one commandment Jesus brings us we cannot keep for 5 minutes?
Now that 5 minutes is Holy, perfect, pleasing to God. So take that forward to 1 hour, to 3 hours,
to half a day, to a day, to a week, to a month, to a year, to a lifetime.
And the heart of this is one word, love, focused on God the creator, working through that
which is appropriate. And the source of healing is the cross, is seeing in your mind God the
creator becoming man and dying for you. This is the healing we need, this is the continual
reminder we must carry to know, it is this love that is our life.
And the door to this walk, repentance, the giving up of our life in the world for a life with
Christ learning the way of love.
Now either you take the idolatry of belief as your security or you repent of your sins and
start following Christ. Our security is in the cross and Christs love, which is our service,
our salvation, the thing that drives us on. It is why I share here, am driven to praise my
King, because there is no greater love than the one He expressed through the cross, so
while it seems to make life two dimensional for some, it is life eternal.
And this statement
Nothing bu bloviated lies here
peddling darkness and lies thay take one straight to hell
This is the strangest delusional condemnation of the very words and intent of Christ.
You can choose which line you want to follow, but the words demonstrate where
emotionally you end up, the fruit of this position, what you are sowing to.
And to put this into perspective, within 20 years many here will be seeing the Lord
face to face, so idolatry of belief will mean nothing,
Get right with God before He gets right with you by repenting of your sin.
Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Grieve, mourn and wail.
Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4:8-10
Idolaters of security can easily be spotted.
Arrogance - you are ...... some evil condemning description invented with great animosity
Division - they will divide and though most things are the same they alone know God
Idol - one belief will make or break you, not a relationship or a walk or love flowing
Life takes time to see and work through. We have scripture because it is a walk and not
a destination, and all walks are personal, unique, and only you know the real issues.
God sends those with delusions to show us the way, and why idolatry of belief destroys
the soul and blinds the heart. We are people of love and a walk with Christ. May we be
able to know the Holy Spirit flowing among us, and encourage each other to good works
to His glory.
Arrogance - you are ...... some evil condemning description invented with great animosity
Division - they will divide and though most things are the same they alone know God
Idol - one belief will make or break you, not a relationship or a walk or love flowing
Life takes time to see and work through. We have scripture because it is a walk and not
a destination, and all walks are personal, unique, and only you know the real issues.
God sends those with delusions to show us the way, and why idolatry of belief destroys
the soul and blinds the heart. We are people of love and a walk with Christ. May we be
able to know the Holy Spirit flowing among us, and encourage each other to good works
to His glory.
A
You may not see it, but with God any thing is possible.
Too many different people and beliefs to write everyone off as unsaved just because they don't understand what is meant by eternal security.
Perhaps there is a reason for that?
The beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord.
Does it really help to call them cake takers?
You don't see where anyone truly trusts God but doesn't understand the concept of eternal security?
I think it's tied up with a false idea of what Calvinism teaches and free willers don't like the term.
But I probably should finish reading this train wreck....I mean thread.
Too many different people and beliefs to write everyone off as unsaved just because they don't understand what is meant by eternal security.
Perhaps there is a reason for that?
The beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord.
Does it really help to call them cake takers?
You don't see where anyone truly trusts God but doesn't understand the concept of eternal security?
I think it's tied up with a false idea of what Calvinism teaches and free willers don't like the term.
But I probably should finish reading this train wreck....I mean thread.
A
I didn't know that, but there does seem two definitions of justification floating around and it says the Catholic one includes what Protestant distinctly label as sanctification.
I agree there is a mixture of believers and non believers.
Only God really knows who is who and we should all pray and ask for,Him wisdom and words to speak His truth, instead of our own.
I always thought the point of speaking was to draw people closer to God....not push them away.
I agree there is a mixture of believers and non believers.
Only God really knows who is who and we should all pray and ask for,Him wisdom and words to speak His truth, instead of our own.
I always thought the point of speaking was to draw people closer to God....not push them away.