Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!

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sevenseas

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With all due respect, I cant understand this attitude of no one is right.
As you've seen me and preacher4truth have had some exchanges but we've reconciled and not to mention, when people discuss the faith here, I doubt its personal atleast i havent felt that i was personally attacked.

And the thing is: Do you think Paul and the apostles went around preaching and they were like "Oh well yeah this could be right too, i dunno, maybe. Cant really tell. Nobody is 100% right, im probably wrong on this too but still listen to me"
The fact is: Everyone believes in whatever they truly believe is RIGHT. I heavily doubt anyone is gonna put their faith into something that they consider false? "Let me just embrace this lie out here for the laughs." said no one ever.
uh huh

only that is not what goes on

have you missed the threads that get really ugly where people are called heretics and loosers and demonic and fools and other such things?

now I don't post that way myself and I guess you don't either

what I said was that NO ONE is 100% right and that is the truth. for someone to be 100% right, they would need to be something other than a human being living on this planet

we need to be teachable and not so close minded as to never see ourselves in error

I have actually changed my mind on how I view certain things over the years and this does not make me special but it does indicate I practice what I preach regarding belief and doctrine
 
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I do not think people will go to hell because they do not believe in the WOF doctrine
No, but the New Testament does in fact teach "the word of faith" which is used to slap satan around and those that do not believe their words (speaking in agreement with what God says about them) are not important certainly have opened a door to the devil that will remain open causing all kinds of problems in one's life.

But, I do not see where speaking words that do not agree with what God says about us is necessarily a sin, although the Word of God does say that which is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23).

I just cannot imagine not being in agreement with what God says...
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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I started this post last year, because there was so much bad exegetics and theology concerning healing in particular going on. Someone boosted it up again and the race is on.

My request to Rock and others who have not read at least the first few pages is to go back and read what this thread is about. I have post BIBLE passages, in context, to show how desperately wrong the Word Faith lie is.

I would appreciate it if you would go back to the initial posts, read them, reply with quotes, and show me where I am wrong. Use the BIBLE to show me how I have erred.

There is just so much opinion and invective being spewed out here. This apostasy needs to be dealt with. But the only way to deal with it is the following:

Post Bible verses IN CONTEXT and feel free to refer to Bauer for the Greek or Brown-Driver-Briggs for the Hebrew definitions. Strong's is a back translation of the King James Version, and doesn't count! If only because our language has changed.

If you follow my argument with wanderer though the thread, you will find he cannot answer my posts, and says he will come back some day, to show me. I guess he left without closing his profile, and for sure, he has not answered my comments.

I am willing to reopen the debate, but be assured, only if you post verses in context. Anyone pulling Isa. 53 part B out of is context, is going to get nothing from me.

Oh, well, the one positive thing about this thread coming back to the top, is that new people are getting to read the Biblical truth concerning the Word Faith heresy!
 
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There is a principle which is a bar against all information,

Which is proof against all argument,

and which cannot fail to keep man in everlasting ignorance.

That principle is condemnation (of an idea) before investigation..

Edmund Spencer
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
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There is a principle which is a bar against all information,

Which is proof against all argument,

and which cannot fail to keep man in everlasting ignorance.

That principle is condemnation (of an idea) before investigation..

Edmund Spencer
As I said, when you read the OP and the first few pages, then comment concerning the Bible verses IN CONTEXT, I will reply!
 
Dec 28, 2016
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There is a principle which is a bar against all information,

Which is proof against all argument,

and which cannot fail to keep man in everlasting ignorance.

That principle is condemnation (of an idea) before investigation..

Edmund Spencer
With all due respect, the quote describes you perfectly. It is so ironic.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I started this post last year, because there was so much bad exegetics and theology concerning healing in particular going on. Someone boosted it up again and the race is on.

My request to Rock and others who have not read at least the first few pages is to go back and read what this thread is about. I have post BIBLE passages, in context, to show how desperately wrong the Word Faith lie is.

I would appreciate it if you would go back to the initial posts, read them, reply with quotes, and show me where I am wrong. Use the BIBLE to show me how I have erred.

There is just so much opinion and invective being spewed out here. This apostasy needs to be dealt with. But the only way to deal with it is the following:

Post Bible verses IN CONTEXT and feel free to refer to Bauer for the Greek or Brown-Driver-Briggs for the Hebrew definitions. Strong's is a back translation of the King James Version, and doesn't count! If only because our language has changed.

If you follow my argument with wanderer though the thread, you will find he cannot answer my posts, and says he will come back some day, to show me. I guess he left without closing his profile, and for sure, he has not answered my comments.

I am willing to reopen the debate, but be assured, only if you post verses in context. Anyone pulling Isa. 53 part B out of is context, is going to get nothing from me.

Oh, well, the one positive thing about this thread coming back to the top, is that new people are getting to read the Biblical truth concerning the Word Faith heresy!
If even one person gets saved out of that heresy it will be worth it. Great OP, good post here as well. I highly respect your study and input here sister Angela. God bless.
 
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If you wish to talk about opinions, please see the other thread which is going on right now. I want to keep this thread to discuss what the BIBLE says about the Word Faith teaching, and why the Bible says it is wrong.

Again, another copy and paste of something I already wrote, coming from a pamphlet called The Disease of the Health and Wealth Gospel by Gordon D. Fee. Gordon Fee is one of the top Bible and Greek scholars in the world. He is also Pentecostal, believes in healing and the gifts of the Spirit. But he does NOT believe in the distorted exegesis of the Bible, and how Health and Wealth teachers have twisted the Bible, as evident from so many posts in this thread.

As far as wealth, Gordon Fee doesn't have a kind word to say about it. It is totally a false doctrine. Having met numerous people who were fleeced by these evil men who preach unconditional wealth, it is not Biblical. I will not deal with it here, although if anyone wants to talk about it, in terms of what the Bible says, please feel free to post Bible verses on it. I do not believe in this false prosperity gospel and I would be willing to post the Scriptures that explain why. (I am NOT saying that God doesn't bless us, but again, it is not part of the atonement or the Bible!)


Regarding healing, Fee titles this chapter "The 'Gospel' of Perfect Health." First, he notes that physical and mental healing of human life is part of the redemptive activity of God. He believes in prayer for the sick, as I do! Christians are subject to decay and death in this present age, and healing is God's gracious activity in the body healed and is a sign of the future already at work in this present age.

If healing is supported by both the Bible and theology and praying in faith for the gracious healing of the sick, then where is the problem? What is the "disease" nature of the "gospel" of total health for Christians?

There are basically some biblical and theological distortions which insist:

1. that God wills perfect health and complete healing for every believer

2. that God has obligated Himself to heal every sickness for those who have faith (unless the sickness is a result of breaking God's "health" laws.)

Integral to this theology is the insistence that faith can "claim" such healing from God, and that any failure to be healed is not the fault of God, but of the one who has not had enough faith. Very often "claiming" healing means to "confess" it as done, even though the symptoms persists.

So the answer to why people are not healed, who have faith, has to lie not in the actual words of the Bible or God himself, but in the way the Bible is being interpreted. As with many half-truths, the "gospel" of perfect health sees to base itself on Scripture. However, the evangelists interpretation is faulty for the following reasons:

1. some poor, or flat-out wrong interpretations of key texts
2. some selective use of texts,
3. a failure to have a wholistic biblical view of things, and especially a failure to understand the essential theological framework of the New Testament writers.

As a result, they tend to repeat the Corinthian error and are unable to hear Paul's answers in 1 and 2 Corinthians as over and against themselves, although these evangelists are unwitting descendants of the false apostles of 2 Cor. 10-13!

"So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong." 2 Cor. 12:7-10


Basic hermeneutics demands the following things:

The aim of all biblical interpretation is the "plain meaning" of the text. This is the "original meaning", that the author plainly intended and that the original readers plainly understood. The Bible is indeed a book for all seasons, because it speaks directly out of our past to our present situation, it does so because it first spoke to them in their situation.

Therefore, the first task of interpretation is NOT to find out what it says to us, but what it originally said to them. God's Word to us is not a new word, never before discovered; rather it must be the very same word he originally spoke back there and then. This is the only legitimate Word to be heard in Scripture.

All this must be insisted upon, because the basic Biblical failure of the "perfect health" evangelists is the interpretation of their primary texts. They simply fail to do adequate exegesis which has to do with determining the meaning of the text in original context.


The arguments for perfect health as God's will for all believers are based on three sets of texts

a. Paul's statement that "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law" Gal 3:14, coupled with Deuteronomy 28:21-22 where disease is one of the curses for disobedience of the law.

"The Lord will make the pestilence stick to you until he has consumed you off the land that you are entering to take possession of it. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease and with fever, inflammation and fiery heat, and with drought and with blight and with mildew. They shall pursue you until you perish." Debt. 28:21-22

It is argued from these texts that sickness is a part of the curse of the law, from which Christ redeemed us from.

b. Isa. 53 and the citation of Isa. 53:4 in Matt 8:17 and Isa. 53:5 in 1 Peter 2:24. It is argued from these texts, especially from the change to the past tense in 1 Peter that healing is in the atonement in the same way as forgiveness. (Something that Undergrace has been ably defending!)

c. A whole host of texts that remind us that God honours faith eg. Matt 9:29, Mark 11:23-24, John 14:12; Hebrews 11:6; James 1:6-8


The first set of texts, (a above) can be quickly set aside. This is a typical example of a totally faulty "concordance" interpretation, which finds English "catch" words in various texts and then tries to make them all refer to the same thing. There is not even the remotest possibility that Paul was referring to the curses of Deuteronomy 28 when he spoke of "curse of the law." And "redemption" in Galatians has to do with one thing only - how does one have right standing with God - through faith (= trust in God's gracious acceptance and forgiveness for sinners), or by works of the law (=acceptance by obedience to prescribed rules)? Thus the Holy Spirit could scarcely have inspired a meaning of the text that is totally foreign to the point Paul is making in the context in Galatians.

It is also questionable whether one can rightly argue that the Bible teaches that healing is provided for in the atonement. Historic Pentecostalism does not see healing provided for in the atonement the same way as salvation. Healing is "provided for" because the "atonement brought release from the consequences of sin;" nevertheless, since "we have not yet received the redemption of our bodies" suffering and death are still our lot until the resurrection.


"Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all." Isa. 53:4-6

While there are many texts that show that our sin has been overcome by Christ's death and resurrection, there is in fact no text that that explicitly says the same thing about healing, not even Isaiah 53 and its NT citations.

Matthew's use of Isa. 53:4 does not even refer to the cross, rather the clearly sees the text being fulfilled in Jesus earthly ministry. This is made certain by both the context and by his choice of Greek verbs in his own unique translation of the Hebrew (ἔλαβεν or elaben = he took; ἐβάστασεν or ebastasen = he removed.)

"ὅπως πληρωθῇ τὸ ῥηθὲν διὰ Ἠσαΐου τοῦ προφήτου λέγοντος· Αὐτὸς τὰς ἀσθενείας ἡμῶν ἔλαβεν καὶ τὰς νόσους ἐβάστασεν." Matt 8:17 Greek

"This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah: “He took our illnesses and bore our diseases.” Matt 8:17 ESV

The citation of Isa. 53:5 in 1 Peter 2:24 on the other hand, does not refer to physical healing. The usage here is metaphorical, pure and simple! In context, in which slaves are urged to submit to their evil masters - even if it means suffering for it - Peter appeals to the example of Christ, which Christians slaves are to follow.

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed." 1 Peter 2:24 ESV

This appeal to Christ, beginning at verse 21, is filling with allusions and to citations of Isa. 53 all of which refers to Christ's having suffered unjustly as the source of the slave's redemption from sin. Thus Peter says:

"He himself bore our wounds" (Isa. 53:12) "that we might die to sin."

"By his wounds you have been healed" (Isa. 53:5) FOR you were as sheep going astray. (Isa. 53:6)

The allusions to both verses 5 and 6, joined by FOR (coordinate Conjunction) and referring to "sheep going astray" plus the change to the past tense, all make it abundantly clear that "healing" here is a metaphor for being restored to health from "the sickness of their sins!"

Such a metaphorical use would be natural for Peter, since sin as "wound" "injury" or "sickness" and the "healing" or such "sickness" are thorough going images in the Old Testament. See 2 Chron. 7:14; Psalm 6:2; Isaiah 1:5-6; Jerem. 30:12-13, 52:8-9; Nahum 3:19)

Furthermore , the Old Testament citations in 1 Peter rather closely follow the Septuagint (LXX or Greek translation of the OT) even when this translation differed from the Hebrew; and the Septuagint had ALREADY translated Isa. 53:4 metaphorically!

"He himself bore our sins"
rather than "our sicknesses." I am sure Peter knew both versions and chose the LXX because he knew it was a better version for NT believers and their understanding of Isa. 53:4.

So my point!

Matt clearly saw Isa. 53:4 as referring to physical healing, but as a part of the Messiah's ministry, not the atonement. Peter, conversely, saw the "healing" in Isa. 53 as being metaphorical and thus referring to the healing of our sin sickness. Neither NT reference to healing sees the "healing" in Isa. 53 as referring to physical healing in the atonement.

But what did Isaiah himself intend??

The first reference is certainly metaphorical as the Septuagint, the Targums and Peter recognize. Israel was diseased! She was grievously wounded for her sins (Isa 1:6-7) Yet God would restore his people. There would come one who himself would suffer so as to deliver. Isaiah says of the Messiah "The punishment that brought us peace was upon him and by his wounds we are healed." Since physical disease was clearly recognized as a consequence of the Fall, such a metaphor could also pick up the literal sense and that is what Matthew picked up on.

The Bible therefore does, not explicitly teach that healing is provided for in the atonement. However, the NT does see the cross as the focus of God's redemptive activity.

As far as part c above, ultimately, these rely on a wrong interpretation that healing is part of the atonement. The argument for perfect health, or healing on demand, lies in the joining of healing to the atonement as the basis for demand, and therefore if God has provided for it, he must therefore heal on demand.

Since in fact, there is no connection of the atonement to healing, God is not obligated to provide healing on demand, although I do believe he heals when people pray and it is His will to heal, that he might be glorified.


Jesus has come to save you from your sins. That you can be sure of. God is real. But televangelist, Word Faith prophets, not at all! If you start reading the Bible from cover to cover, over and over yearly or more, you will get a very different theology than these sharks and false prophets paint. I urge everyone to get out a modern translation like ESV or HCSB and read it over and over again. That was part of what helped me heal - just reading the Word of God - in context, and fully! I've read the Bible over 40 times straight through, and most of the NT in Greek and much of the OT in Hebrew. (And the entire bible in French!) I assure you, there is nothing more glorious than feeding on the Word of God. God will minister to you daily as you seek his revealed Word in the Bible, rather than with internet preachers and false prophets.

Here is the verse God gave me that healed my soul in more than one way. It appears in Paul's chapter on justification, and that we all suffer - we live in a fallen world. It has comforted me more times than you can imagine!

"Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope,5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." Romans 5:3-5
Angela I am not looking to offend here...but...this stuff is pure rot. You're posting stuff that is only opinion and not Word...You should really do your own study into the subject instead of borrowing it. Cut and paste is not research nor is it learning.
 
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sevenseas

Guest
No, but the New Testament does in fact teach "the word of faith" which is used to slap satan around and those that do not believe their words (speaking in agreement with what God says about them) are not important certainly have opened a door to the devil that will remain open causing all kinds of problems in one's life.

But, I do not see where speaking words that do not agree with what God says about us is necessarily a sin, although the Word of God does say that which is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23).

I just cannot imagine not being in agreement with what God says...
no just no

if I may, let's just pretend that I know a little something and I will admonish you, respectfully but nonetheless truthful

you are deceived if you think you have conquered the devil in any way shape or form

you have no idea of his powers that God allows him to have. I have zero respect for the idea the devil is the winner, but he is still the god of this world and never more than when silly Christians think they know more that a being that was created to be eternal and serve in the presence of the true and the living God of all creation

he loves ignorance, superstition, believers who are ignorant of his schemes and all those who think they know more than the next person

if the angel Gabriel spoke respectfully to the dark powers, you think you can slap satan around?

our words and how we speak and our confession do actually count

but not the way of the WOF doctrine which is not in agreement with the Bible
 
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no just no

if I may, let's just pretend that I know a little something and I will admonish you, respectfully but nonetheless truthful

you are deceived if you think you have conquered the devil in any way shape or form

you have no idea of his powers that God allows him to have. I have zero respect for the idea the devil is the winner, but he is still the god of this world and never more than when silly Christians think they know more that a being that was created to be eternal and serve in the presence of the true and the living God of all creation

he loves ignorance, superstition, believers who are ignorant of his schemes and all those who think they know more than the next person

if the angel Gabriel spoke respectfully to the dark powers, you think you can slap satan around?

our words and how we speak and our confession do actually count

but not the way of the WOF doctrine which is not in agreement with the Bible
Sevenseas you really need to decide who knows more. You or God Then follow the one who knows most....
 
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sevenseas

Guest
Sevenseas you really need to decide who knows more. You or God Then follow the one who knows most....

typical WOF rhetoric

you are not God

you do not know everything and you do not know what I know

I know more than you having experienced what you offer and been thankfully and mercifully delivered from it

you try to appear to align yourself with God

I have not done that

follow Christ, not WOF doctrine and then we can agree

a pity you constantly try to make things personal, yet another WOF tactic. all about the emotions and lack of evidence bothers you not at all

it's tragic that you are so deceived and think others who try to point out the error of your doctrine are in the dark

I don't have to make any decision you tell me to make. that, comes from an angel of light who has you deceived

those are strong words but in light of your directions, they are really in keeping with the tone you have taken to use with me
 
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typical WOF rhetoric

you are not God

you do not know everything and you do not know what I know

I know more than you having experienced what you offer and been thankfully and mercifully delivered from it

you try to appear to align yourself with God

I have not done that

follow Christ, not WOF doctrine and then we can agree

a pity you constantly try to make things personal, yet another WOF tactic. all about the emotions and lack of evidence bothers you not at all

it's tragic that you are so deceived and think others who try to point out the error of your doctrine are in the dark

I don't have to make any decision you tell me to make. that, comes from an angel of light who has you deceived

those are strong words but in light of your directions, they are really in keeping with the tone you have taken to use with me
What I find really interesting Sir is that you accuse others of attacking and in general you sound eerily like the snowflakes that attack Trump...I did not say any of the things above..I simply suggested that you decide who knows more...YOU or GOD....It's amusing how you attack and accuse every time you don't have an answer
 
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sevenseas

Guest
What I find really interesting Sir is that you accuse others of attacking and in general you sound eerily like the snowflakes that attack Trump...I did not say any of the things above..I simply suggested that you decide who knows more...YOU or GOD....It's amusing how you attack and accuse every time you don't have an answer
yeah

except we voted for Trump who has nothing, nada, zero, zilch and less than the holes in swiss cheese to do with the discussion at hand

you take upon yourself a mantle not ever given to you and judge constantly and when called out on it, you dodge, duck and accuse

also typical tactics of those who prefer to think everyone is wrong if they don't agree with them and we can find that type of immature believer on both sides of the coin

I am neither. I have expressed a desire to be able to discuss without the nonsense that accompanies so many of the threads here

that would entail that individuals need to hold themselves to account

there is nothing amusing going on. I have attacked no one. this is a typical fake accusation that is so typical of those who cannot answer from truth and are more comfortable with flinging words as they do not actually know what they believe
 
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yeah

except we voted for Trump who has nothing, nada, zero, zilch and less than the holes in swiss cheese to do with the discussion at hand

you take upon yourself a mantle not ever given to you and judge constantly and when called out on it, you dodge, duck and accuse

also typical tactics of those who prefer to think everyone is wrong if they don't agree with them and we can find that type of immature believer on both sides of the coin

I am neither. I have expressed a desire to be able to discuss without the nonsense that accompanies so many of the threads here

that would entail that individuals need to hold themselves to account

there is nothing amusing going on. I have attacked no one. this is a typical fake accusation that is so typical of those who cannot answer from truth and are more comfortable with flinging words as they do not actually know what they believe
If you say so.
 
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you are deceived if you think you have conquered the devil in any way shape or form
No, I didn't personally... but my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has and HE made me joint heirs with Him (Romans 8:16,17) and translated me from darkness into the Kingdom of God's Dear Son (Colossians 1:13), and He raised me up to sit with Him in Heavenly places far above all principality power and might and dominion (Ephesians 2:6).

My Lord and Savior Jesus was manifest to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8) which He did when He made a show of them openly, triumphing over them (Colossians 2:15), and because of this He said in His Word that as He is, so are we in this world (1 John 4:17)

You should meet Him sometime...He'd like to meet you!




I have zero respect for the idea the devil is the winner, but he is still the god of this world and never more than when silly Christians think they know more that a being that was created to be eternal and serve in the presence of the true and the living God of all creation
Contradict yourself much???



if the angel Gabriel spoke respectfully to the dark powers, you think you can slap satan around?
the angel Gabriel was not created in God's image, and he is not IN CHRIST... I am, so Jesus said these signs shall follow them that believe; In My Name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall move devils out of the way; and if they take in any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover (Mark 16:17-18)

Christians are IN CHRIST, therefore we can kick the snot out of the devil is we stand on God's Word wearing God's fighting suit (yeah, ask me 'bout dat later!)




our words and how we speak and our confession do actually count
Contradict yourself much, yet again???




but not the way of the WOF doctrine which is not in agreement with the Bible
You obviously don't know much about what's in your Bible and you are a glass half empty kinda guy.

God can deliver you from that!




you try to appear to align yourself with God

I have not done that
So what did you do then?... align yourself with the devil???

You are either in agreement with God, or in agreement with the devil.

You keep saying things that do not agree with what God says in His Word so... whassup wit dat anyhow???




I don't have to make any decision you tell me to make. that, comes from an angel of light who has you deceived
Said the guy who just said he has not aligned himself with God a few sentences back...
 
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yeah

except we voted for Trump who has nothing, nada, zero, zilch and less than the holes in swiss cheese to do with the discussion at hand

you take upon yourself a mantle not ever given to you and judge constantly and when called out on it, you dodge, duck and accuse

also typical tactics of those who prefer to think everyone is wrong if they don't agree with them and we can find that type of immature believer on both sides of the coin

I am neither. I have expressed a desire to be able to discuss without the nonsense that accompanies so many of the threads here

that would entail that individuals need to hold themselves to account

there is nothing amusing going on. I have attacked no one. this is a typical fake accusation that is so typical of those who cannot answer from truth and are more comfortable with flinging words as they do not actually know what they believe
Actually you both respond in the same manner. It's just the pot and kettle thing going on. Maybe you've met your match and likeness?
 
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sevenseas

Guest
Actually you both respond in the same manner. It's just the pot and kettle thing going on. Maybe you've met your match and likeness?

behold!

hearken unto the servant of MacArthur for he has much to teach you

do not think you can add to his great knowledge and double salvation for he hath twice bound up knowledge betweeneth the great width of his brow

consider his wisdom and if thou canst keep it down, perchance thou has learnt patience for those not as skilled in the art of mockery as is he
 
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hearken unto the servant of MacArthur for he has much to teach you
Isn't he that cessationist dude that believes God don't do nuthin anymore???

Yeah, he's a cherry picker like most TV preachers... he just comes down on the carnal, man-made religious side.
 
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sevenseas

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Isn't he that cessationist dude that believes God don't do nuthin anymore???

Yeah, he's a cherry picker like most TV preachers... he just comes down on the carnal, man-made religious side.
well we can agree on that

he is a Lordship Salvationist which is his choice, however the rude and condescending comments are not taught but seem to be a personality quirk with certain of that group. m ind you, MacArthur teaches that all those who speak in tongues are demonic so maybe they think it is ok since they do no think anyone but them are saved?

p4t lies to stick his schnozzle in and make what he thinks are brilliant comments

it's all he has
 
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