Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!
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opppsssss means most of my christian friends are demonic, and the experience of
interpretation of tongues is just wrong, except it brought glory to God and helped people
move forward in their walks or even come to faith in the first place.
This spiritual life is a harder dance than I first thought. It is always harder to see the heart
beyond the spiritual weaknesses we often carry in front of us.
Mary washing Jesus's feet with her tears and hair, followed later by anointing Jesus with
oil was a precious gift of love and worship, yet for some totally inappropriate.
It is these gifts of the heart that speak deepest to me, and tongues is about the heart
reaching out to God through the Spirit to worship Him as He alone is worthy.
I understand this is a beautiful thing of Christ, a gift to us in the Holy Spirit.
interpretation of tongues is just wrong, except it brought glory to God and helped people
move forward in their walks or even come to faith in the first place.
This spiritual life is a harder dance than I first thought. It is always harder to see the heart
beyond the spiritual weaknesses we often carry in front of us.
Mary washing Jesus's feet with her tears and hair, followed later by anointing Jesus with
oil was a precious gift of love and worship, yet for some totally inappropriate.
It is these gifts of the heart that speak deepest to me, and tongues is about the heart
reaching out to God through the Spirit to worship Him as He alone is worthy.
I understand this is a beautiful thing of Christ, a gift to us in the Holy Spirit.
MacArthur doesn't disbelieve in the gifts of the Spirit, just the phony babbling of today that doesn't line up with what's clearly described in scripture as phonetic language. I'm right there with him on that. At the very least, it's the flesh. At its worst (in extremely aberrant churches and movements), it's demonic. He is also against the phony healing crusades, false prophecies, false prophets, false teachers, and so on. As should any genuine Christian that wants to remain true to the miraculous gifts recorded in God's word.
Curious why you edited your comment that mentioned me sevenseas? Realized most wouldn't agree with your assessment of me?
I'm not a McArthur-ite BTW, and neither is P4T. Our appeal is to scripture always, not a man. MacArthur and I agree on a lot of things, but there are a few things we don't agree on. He's spot on with the modern so-called "gifts of the Spirit" though. It's a spirit alright, but what spirit? Let scripture be the judge.
Curious why you edited your comment that mentioned me sevenseas? Realized most wouldn't agree with your assessment of me?
I'm not a McArthur-ite BTW, and neither is P4T. Our appeal is to scripture always, not a man. MacArthur and I agree on a lot of things, but there are a few things we don't agree on. He's spot on with the modern so-called "gifts of the Spirit" though. It's a spirit alright, but what spirit? Let scripture be the judge.
S
MacArthur doesn't disbelieve in the gifts of the Spirit, just the phony babbling of today that doesn't line up with what's clearly described in scripture as phonetic language. I'm right there with him on that. At the very least, it's the flesh. At its worst (in extremely aberrant churches and movements), it's demonic. He is also against the phony healing crusades, false prophecies, false prophets, false teachers, and so on. As should any genuine Christian that wants to remain true to the miraculous gifts recorded in God's word.
Curious why you edited your comment that mentioned me sevenseas? Realized most wouldn't agree with your assessment of me?
I'm not a McArthur-ite BTW, and neither is P4T. Our appeal is to scripture always, not a man. MacArthur and I agree on a lot of things, but there are a few things we don't agree on. He's spot on with the modern so-called "gifts of the Spirit" though. It's a spirit alright, but what spirit? Let scripture be the judge.
Curious why you edited your comment that mentioned me sevenseas? Realized most wouldn't agree with your assessment of me?
I'm not a McArthur-ite BTW, and neither is P4T. Our appeal is to scripture always, not a man. MacArthur and I agree on a lot of things, but there are a few things we don't agree on. He's spot on with the modern so-called "gifts of the Spirit" though. It's a spirit alright, but what spirit? Let scripture be the judge.
let me guess
his favorite gift is teaching? never mind. I've heard all of it before.
I changed my mind about including you cause I decided that was sort of a baited thing to say and I thought it didn't need to be said
you and I do not agree on everything but we do agree on some major things
your attitude is quite different from p4t. he had made his comment to me totally unrelated to what I posted because both of us obviously disagree with WOF, so the comment was just personal
as I have said a number of times around here and in this thread as well, no one is 100% right about everything but most don't say they are but some think they are. a cult is born
God does not like the fake either and He also does not like it when someone calls what is real demonic
MacArthur is way out of line with his comments
I took you off of ignore. Don't make me regret it.
But the bible is pretty clear in this regard:
Acts 2
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Coming of the Holy Spirit
2 When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7 And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12 And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13 But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”
Ta-da.
But the bible is pretty clear in this regard:
Acts 2
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Coming of the Holy Spirit
2 When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7 And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12 And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13 But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”
Ta-da.
Oh, you're gonna regret it... you know you are, cause you just gotta keep coming back fo mo
Yeah, "ta da" in deed... actually it's mo like whoopdie doo cause you took one scripture on one type of speaking in tongues and you played like that's applies to all tongues.
Ah, au contraire polar bear with funny hair!
Here's one speaking of private tongues (you know, in yo prayer closet... OK, maybe not YOUR prayer closet obviously, but in mo mature Christian prayer closets):
1 Corinthians 14:2-4
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
See, in this passage here the Lord (thru brutha Paul) is showing the difference between private tongues and tongues used in a public setting
No, go ask yo boy Mcauther how come he be keep playing like this scripture ain't in the Bible.
Yeah, "ta da" in deed... actually it's mo like whoopdie doo cause you took one scripture on one type of speaking in tongues and you played like that's applies to all tongues.
Ah, au contraire polar bear with funny hair!
Here's one speaking of private tongues (you know, in yo prayer closet... OK, maybe not YOUR prayer closet obviously, but in mo mature Christian prayer closets):
1 Corinthians 14:2-4
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
See, in this passage here the Lord (thru brutha Paul) is showing the difference between private tongues and tongues used in a public setting
No, go ask yo boy Mcauther how come he be keep playing like this scripture ain't in the Bible.
Oh, you're gonna regret it... you know you are, cause you just gotta keep coming back fo mo
Yeah, "ta da" in deed... actually it's mo like whoopdie doo cause you took one scripture on one type of speaking in tongues and you played like that's applies to all tongues.
Ah, au contraire polar bear with funny hair!
Here's one speaking of private tongues (you know, in yo prayer closet... OK, maybe not YOUR prayer closet obviously, but in mo mature Christian prayer closets):
1 Corinthians 14:2-4
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
See, in this passage here the Lord (thru brutha Paul) is showing the difference between private tongues and tongues used in a public setting
No, go ask yo boy Mcauther how come he be keep playing like this scripture ain't in the Bible.
Yeah, "ta da" in deed... actually it's mo like whoopdie doo cause you took one scripture on one type of speaking in tongues and you played like that's applies to all tongues.
Ah, au contraire polar bear with funny hair!
Here's one speaking of private tongues (you know, in yo prayer closet... OK, maybe not YOUR prayer closet obviously, but in mo mature Christian prayer closets):
1 Corinthians 14:2-4
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
See, in this passage here the Lord (thru brutha Paul) is showing the difference between private tongues and tongues used in a public setting
No, go ask yo boy Mcauther how come he be keep playing like this scripture ain't in the Bible.
Thanks old English for mystifying the word tongues forevermore.
No, I get it... you and your boy Mcauther believe 1 Corinthians 14:2-4 is a lie and should be ignored.
False. That scripture says "he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God: for no man understands him"
It's not intended to be understood by other people cause... it's speaking to God in an unknown tongue! Since it's the language of the Holy Ghost... God understand it, and that's the point of private tongues.
Read and believe what God's Word says!... er not, whatever... I'm not a follower of your boy Mcauther who is a false teacher cause he doesn't accept what God says either.
You should probably put me back on ignore before you get seriously offended... which could happen at any moment now...
False. That scripture says "he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men, but unto God: for no man understands him"
It's not intended to be understood by other people cause... it's speaking to God in an unknown tongue! Since it's the language of the Holy Ghost... God understand it, and that's the point of private tongues.
Read and believe what God's Word says!... er not, whatever... I'm not a follower of your boy Mcauther who is a false teacher cause he doesn't accept what God says either.
You should probably put me back on ignore before you get seriously offended... which could happen at any moment now...
You are mangling the verse. Let's look at the context. Also, dunno why you keep bringing MacArthur up. I am appealing to scripture. Honestly, I don't even expect you to read what I write next, you tend to read the first sentence and copy and paste it without reading the rest, but here we go:
1 Corinthians 14
Prophecy and Tongues
14 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
--
Paul is making a contrast between two things here. Those who build up the body (good thing) and those who build themselves up (bad thing). He instructs that no one speak in another language (miraculously uttered) unless someone can interpret. You can't interpret incoherent babbling because that's all it is, incoherent babbling. Anyone can do it. He is referring to a miraculous gift as was already described in Acts 2.
--
6 Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [the answer to this rhetorical question is that speaking in tongues will be of no benefit unless it's understood]7 If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? 8 And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? 9 So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, 11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. 12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
--
Again, in context, we can see that Paul is telling them to stop misusing the gift, that it serves no purpose in building the church. He is saying it's pointless, speaking into air. He goes on to say, rather strive to excel in building up the church (not the self) and relates back to LANGUAGES.
--
13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
--
In verses 13-15 here, Paul goes on to say that even for the self-edification it is UNFRUITFUL and exhorts them to pray for the ability to interpret. He wants them to be fruitful in both the spirit and in their mind. What am I to do he asks. He will pray with his spirit but he will pray with his MIND also. He basically says if you don't even understand it, it's no good even to you!
--
16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? [answer: they can't!]17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. [back to focusing on the building up of others!]18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
--
Context is an amazing thing. I really hope you can see the theme in what Paul was saying here. Self-edification (bad) vs edification of the church body (good), and that even if you don't even understand the language you are speaking, it's useless.
1 Corinthians 14
Prophecy and Tongues
14 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
--
Paul is making a contrast between two things here. Those who build up the body (good thing) and those who build themselves up (bad thing). He instructs that no one speak in another language (miraculously uttered) unless someone can interpret. You can't interpret incoherent babbling because that's all it is, incoherent babbling. Anyone can do it. He is referring to a miraculous gift as was already described in Acts 2.
--
6 Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? [the answer to this rhetorical question is that speaking in tongues will be of no benefit unless it's understood]7 If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? 8 And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? 9 So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, 11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. 12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
--
Again, in context, we can see that Paul is telling them to stop misusing the gift, that it serves no purpose in building the church. He is saying it's pointless, speaking into air. He goes on to say, rather strive to excel in building up the church (not the self) and relates back to LANGUAGES.
--
13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
--
In verses 13-15 here, Paul goes on to say that even for the self-edification it is UNFRUITFUL and exhorts them to pray for the ability to interpret. He wants them to be fruitful in both the spirit and in their mind. What am I to do he asks. He will pray with his spirit but he will pray with his MIND also. He basically says if you don't even understand it, it's no good even to you!
--
16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? [answer: they can't!]17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. [back to focusing on the building up of others!]18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
--
Context is an amazing thing. I really hope you can see the theme in what Paul was saying here. Self-edification (bad) vs edification of the church body (good), and that even if you don't even understand the language you are speaking, it's useless.
No, haven't been mangling any verses... you just believe wrong!
Wait... you said earlier that you did not believe in speaking with tongues which you got from your boy Mcauther. What happened to that???
And, private tongues for personal edification (bringing ones self closer to the Lord in personal relationship) is not a bad thing.
Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost
Here' another one related to private prayer
Romans 8:26-27
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
It's too bad you and your boy Mcauther are cherry pickers who only believe bits and pieces of God's Word.
satan is real happy about that since this helps him get a foot hold in to your live as well as in your boy Mcauther's life.
Wait... you said earlier that you did not believe in speaking with tongues which you got from your boy Mcauther. What happened to that???
And, private tongues for personal edification (bringing ones self closer to the Lord in personal relationship) is not a bad thing.
Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost
Here' another one related to private prayer
Romans 8:26-27
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
It's too bad you and your boy Mcauther are cherry pickers who only believe bits and pieces of God's Word.
satan is real happy about that since this helps him get a foot hold in to your live as well as in your boy Mcauther's life.
Address the text in my reply #1133 and stop dodging context.
Romans 8:26-27 is not alluding to some unknown babbling language. It even dismisses the idea of language at all since it says too deep for words or cannot be uttered depending on the translation. There is nothing in the context to connect that to the miracle of Pentecost.
Same thing with Jude. That in no way can be connected to the gift of tongues. Even if it could be connected, I'd refer you back to Paul's instructions of praying in spirit and with your mind, not sever your mind because he said it's fruitless.
Romans 8:26-27 is not alluding to some unknown babbling language. It even dismisses the idea of language at all since it says too deep for words or cannot be uttered depending on the translation. There is nothing in the context to connect that to the miracle of Pentecost.
Same thing with Jude. That in no way can be connected to the gift of tongues. Even if it could be connected, I'd refer you back to Paul's instructions of praying in spirit and with your mind, not sever your mind because he said it's fruitless.
Thank you for sharing your carnal man-made, Word of God denying false religion... nothing but opinions that twist scripture to the view point of tongues means a learned language found here on club earth, yes, I've heard all that before and it's of the devil.
Once day you will learn this... one way, or the other
Once day you will learn this... one way, or the other
I gave you what God said... you rejected it.
Am I supposed to try and force it on you er something?
I'll need yo address for that
Am I supposed to try and force it on you er something?
I'll need yo address for that
1 Corinthians 14
Prophecy and Tongues
14 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
Paul begins with the words pursue love. His very first two words points toward acting in a way that is beneficial to others, that is, loving them. He goes on in the same sentence to emphasize prophecy and juxtapositions that with his next sentence "For one who speaks in tongues...." He continues with "the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation" (back to that love thing again). Further, the one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself (bad thing, no love there, just pride), but the one who prophesies builds up the church (back to that love thing).
He goes on to say he wishes all would speak in tongues, but more that they would prophesy because the one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues UNLESS <--- important, someone interprets, so that the church may be built up (back to that upbuilding and love thing again).
See the theme there even in these few verses? It continues through the whole chapter.
Self-edification (bad, unloving)
Building up the church (good, loving)
Next paragraph:
6 Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? 7 If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? 8 And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? 9 So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, 11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. 12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
Paul is being rather insulting in these next verses. He compares the Corinthians that are misusing the gift to lifeless instruments and says they are speaking into the air. He goes on to mention many different languages in the world (human languages) and none are without meaning! He tries really hard here to show that what they are doing is futile. In verse 12 he goes on to say "strive to excel in building up the church" (that love and upbuilding stuff again).
So here we see the gift being compared with languages all around the world and that they have meaning! And he goes back to love and upbuilding.
You still with me so far Rockrz?
6 Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? 7 If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? 8 And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? 9 So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, 11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. 12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
Paul is being rather insulting in these next verses. He compares the Corinthians that are misusing the gift to lifeless instruments and says they are speaking into the air. He goes on to mention many different languages in the world (human languages) and none are without meaning! He tries really hard here to show that what they are doing is futile. In verse 12 he goes on to say "strive to excel in building up the church" (that love and upbuilding stuff again).
So here we see the gift being compared with languages all around the world and that they have meaning! And he goes back to love and upbuilding.
You still with me so far Rockrz?