Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!

[popeye]

Why do folks assume that those who disagree are full of hate? That is ridiculous, I don't hate anyone, I just want folks to have a choice and to understand where God stands on issues. Back to the subject, years back I kept having Joyce meyer on my mind, she preached much of the true gospel, but I could not get around the twenty million dollar jet plane, also she said that God gave her the plane. How can you say a expensive plane is wrong if God gave it to her? Then while sitting in church God gave me kind of a vision, first He said, I did not give her that plane, she gave herself that plane. As I was looking I saw her reach into an offering plate, take out the money, and then buy herself a twenty million dollar plane. Folks, what if I taught the gospel better then Joyce Meyer, but I then told people to give until it hurt, and then took money from those people and bought myself a twenty million dollar jet plane? Am I justified in using collection money to buy myself a jet plane because I presented the true gospel to them? I think not, I would be violating the very gospel I preach by using other people to achieve things of this world for myself. Why cannot people see this, these folks who use the gospel and people to acquire expensive material things of this world for themselves, CANNOT BE TRUE SERVANTS OF GOD, it should be obvious to those who study the bible.

You just described King David.

Any one can discern they are in excess. Their ministries are huge, They do indeed need to chill out their own indulgences.

Your error is in WANTING TO SEE King David Fried in the LOF. While being forever canonizing and shaming him as an evil false prophet devil from hell.

 

[popeye]

What do you guys do when you come upon God's promises in his word???

Why not start a thread on God's promises,and make yourself read them without the "evil prince wof,Myers prism" ?????

Do a study. Post your verses and findings.

See the mountains of blessing you are pooo pooo-ing.

 

[joaniemarie]

Why do folks assume that those who disagree are full of hate? That is ridiculous, I don't hate anyone, I just want folks to have a choice and to understand where God stands on issues. Back to the subject, years back I kept having Joyce meyer on my mind, she preached much of the true gospel, but I could not get around the twenty million dollar jet plane, also she said that God gave her the plane. How can you say a expensive plane is wrong if God gave it to her? Then while sitting in church God gave me kind of a vision, first He said, I did not give her that plane, she gave herself that plane. As I was looking I saw her reach into an offering plate, take out the money, and then buy herself a twenty million dollar plane. Folks, what if I taught the gospel better then Joyce Meyer, but I then told people to give until it hurt, and then took money from those people and bought myself a twenty million dollar jet plane? Am I justified in using collection money to buy myself a jet plane because I presented the true gospel to them? I think not, I would be violating the very gospel I preach by using other people to achieve things of this world for myself. Why cannot people see this, these folks who use the gospel and people to acquire expensive material things of this world for themselves, CANNOT BE TRUE SERVANTS OF GOD, it should be obvious to those who study the bible.

We each have different experiences. The Lord has never made me privy to how He is dealing with another Christian about how they use their finances. I have enough to do with hearing the Spirit through my own ideas and thoughts and habits. I've heard Joyce Meyer before and been helped by her ministry some years ago. I see God has blessed her work and I'm glad she has been used to help many many people. More than I can imagine as she does go all over the world. Who knows but God how many people alone in their living rooms or hotel rooms and have heard that woman's odd deep voice and been moved to accept Jesus?

God has enough money and "cattle on a thousand hills" to bless anyone and everyone. Money is not evil or to be used sparingly if we are blessed with it. As He pours it out on us we should pour it out on others and allow it to flow in and through people's lives as His Spirit leads. There is nothing good about a stagnant pool. Learning to hold wealth with a loose hand is important.

How do you or I know the where and the how of Joyce M. and her ministry and where they put the millions of $$ that comes in??? For all we know she could be giving 50% or more of all her monies back into the Lords work. We don't know. The plane could be only a fraction of the amount of money her ministry takes in. Who knows?

She must be doing something well for her to still be on the air at this time in her life. As far as I'm concerned what she does with the blessings God's given her is between her and God. She will be answerable to Him for it all. Why worry about it and think you have to have her and her finances figured out? It only effects you if you are being lead to donate to her ministry.

People have a pre occupation with other peoples money and how they should spend it if you ask me. I think it's because of what it represents. But to the Christian it should never represent God in their lives. God is the One who gives us all the things we have. Not money. Money is just part of the equation. To the world it represents power and freedom and health and independence. Even relationships. To the world it's a major huge part of life. But to us it should be just a tool and seen in it's proper light.

Maybe Joyce sees it for what it is and uses it freely as she should. We maybe don't understand that since we are not speaking all over the world dealing with millions and millions of people's souls in a day. Most of us here on CC are average Joe's living on a much smaller scale called to other kinds of work for Jesus.

 

[Denadii]

Are you kidding me? I spent days praying and researching this, and wrote it myself. I did reference it, using a number of sources especially a pamphlet by Gordon Fee.

I did say I copied and pasted it, but I meant from my own files and research. In other words, the work is mine, I just reposted it rather than write it from scratch again!

As for it being rot, it is probably over your head and too hard for you to understand! Maybe when you have studied the Bible a bit more, we can discuss this!

I understand Its just that so much of it contradicts what the Bible says...No matter what we like or thing, the bible is the authority...I don't have to tell you that though

 

[CeileDe]

I would like to present an apology to God.

Lord, I apologize for not being able to understand your Word because I lack the education to do so. I'm sorry the Holy Spirit, that lives inside of me, isn't adequate enough to teach me and lacks the power to help me understand. Since, Lord, your power isn't enough for me I will have to rely on man's education system to teach me right and wrong and complete understanding of your Words. Amen.

And yes I am being sarcastic. I find it totally ridiculous that some on here feel that having a Theology degree or a degree in Greek will help me understand God's Word more than the HS. Get over yourselves and start trusting in God.

 

[Denadii]

I would like to present an apology to God.

Lord, I apologize for not being able to understand your Word because I lack the education to do so. I'm sorry the Holy Spirit, that lives inside of me, isn't adequate enough to teach me and lacks the power to help me understand. Since, Lord, your power isn't enough for me I will have to rely on man's education system to teach me right and wrong and complete understanding of your Words. Amen.

And yes I am being sarcastic. I find it totally ridiculous that some on here feel that having a Theology degree or a degree in Greek will help me understand God's Word more than the HS. Get over yourselves and start trusting in God.

LOL While sarcasm does not become you, your message is clear. Too many Christians prefer to learn things of the spirit using intellect rather than seek our our teacher an counselor The Holy Spirit

 

[Rockrz]

Zimbabwean Pastor, Paul Sanyangore "Calls God On Phone" During Service

ah, that was just a telemarketer... telling him what he wanted to hear!

They probably conned him in to sending them some money

Rockrz seems to have bailed out on me.

I see the angel number 4 guy is still confused over tongues unable to understand God's Word concerning that subject... at least we know what to expect!

Just to make it clear: Do these riches directly and clearly refer to money? Because the promised boons by God could be rather referring to other kinds of blessings in your life (for instance the Gifts of the Holy Spirit) I would like to believe it so, it would make sense to me. Many many Blessings thanks

And... it includes money cause some things in this world system in which we live in can only be delt with by paying money.

Next time yo utility bill comes due, call them up and offer to bless them with some prayer and let them know you want to trade that fo electricity... you'll be in the dark soon!

No, it's not all about money cause there are many things money can't do anything about... such as physical health since using medical science is nothing more than a roll of the dice.

But... it includes money.

God just never intended for it to start being ALL about money which is what most cats on TV be making it about so they can live high on the hawg which ain't kosher.

 

[limey410]

I would like to present an apology to God.

Lord, I apologize for not being able to understand your Word because I lack the education to do so. I'm sorry the Holy Spirit, that lives inside of me, isn't adequate enough to teach me and lacks the power to help me understand. Since, Lord, your power isn't enough for me I will have to rely on man's education system to teach me right and wrong and complete understanding of your Words. Amen.

And yes I am being sarcastic. I find it totally ridiculous that some on here feel that having a Theology degree or a degree in Greek will help me understand God's Word more than the HS. Get over yourselves and start trusting in God.

Amen

Theology by definition is the study of God. I don't believe that theology means to know God. Anyone, saved or unsaved can study theology. (It does have its uses for sure) but we can only truly know our God when we accept Him into our lives and that is when we are truly guided by the Creator of the Universe .

 

[Angela53510]

[TABLE="class: yiv1304177328templateContainer, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: yiv1304177328mcnTextBlock, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: yiv1304177328mcnTextBlockInner"][TABLE="class: yiv1304177328mcnTextContentContainer, width: 100%, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD="class: yiv1304177328mcnTextContent, align: center"]…I will put none of the diseases on you which I have brought on the Egyptians. For I am the Lord who heals you.”
Exodus 15:26[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: yiv1304177328mcnTextBlock, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: yiv1304177328mcnTextBlockInner"][TABLE="class: yiv1304177328mcnTextContentContainer, width: 100%, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD="class: yiv1304177328mcnTextContent"]- MAY 25 -
LET IT GO!

[HR][/HR]After crossing the Red Sea, the children of Israel came to a place called Marah. The waters there were bitter. That is why the place was called Marah, which means “bitter”. The Israelites could not drink any of the water, so the Lord made the bitter waters sweet. (Exodus 15:23–25) Then, He brought up the subject of the diseases of Egypt and, for the first time, revealed Himself to His people as “the Lord who heals you”.

Why did the Lord suddenly mention the diseases of the world (Egypt represents the world in the Bible) at a place called “bitter”? What do diseases have to do with bitter waters? I believe that it is because He wants His people to know that a major cause of diseases in their bodies is harboring bitterness and resentment!

Some years ago, a lady shared with me about her sister who had died of cancer at a young age. She said, “Pastor Prince, a number of years before she passed on, she went through a very bitter divorce. She was very bitter toward her ex-husband.” Then, she asked me, “Is there a relationship between her bitterness and the cancer?”

I have studied the subject of healing for many years. I have read many books. I have listened to many sermons and I have sat under many healing ministries. And they all say the same thing: If you have unforgiveness in your heart long enough, that unforgiveness can sometimes translate into a disease in your body.

So if you have been bitter about something or someone, it is time to let it go! Your health, joy and life are more important. If you are already sick and you know that bitterness has something to do with it, let it go! See Jesus as your healer. He is standing at your place of bitterness today and He is saying to you, “My child, I can make your bitter waters sweet. I am the Lord who heals you.”

My friend, let it all go and let Jesus heal not just your diseases, but your broken heart too!

Destined To Reign Devotional by Pastor Joseph Prince. 5/25


Perfect message for today and for your thread Angela.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Take your disgusting promotional plugs for Joseph Prince elsewhere. You have been reported!


As far as exegetics?? Taking Mara and making it about bitterness and resentment, instead of the taste of bitterness in the water. (Caused by either minerals or a high PH level) and somehow projecting that as a "cause" why people are not healed today is just more of this diseased gospel you keep pushing in this forum, Joanie-Marie.

Open your eyes and see that Joseph Prince is no teacher. He is a charlatan and liar, knows nothing about hermeneutics, and you have been totally ENSNARED in his evil trap since I have know you.

No one should be bitter, but this victim blaming, saying people DIE because they have been abused by their ex-husbands, and get bitter, is just heresy and evil.

Take your lying, deceiving devotionals and garbage elsewhere. You are no scholar, and neither is Joseph Prince. And he has no heart for the hurting and broken, just like you apparently do not either!

What an evil spirit of despair and hatred this false hypergrace gospel has! And what a spirit of condemnation for those who have been hurt by life. I'm shocked that you would even post this kind of vile garbage. Have you become that judgemental??

 

[sevenseas]

Take your disgusting promotional plugs for Joseph Prince elsewhere. You have been reported!


As far as exegetics?? Taking Mara and making it about bitterness and resentment, instead of the taste of bitterness in the water. (Caused by either minerals or a high PH level) and somehow projecting that as a "cause" why people are not healed today is just more of this diseased gospel you keep pushing in this forum, Joanie-Marie.

Open your eyes and see that Joseph Prince is no teacher. He is a charlatan and liar, knows nothing about hermeneutics, and you have been totally ENSNARED in his evil trap since I have know you.

No one should be bitter, but this victim blaming, saying people DIE because they have been abused by their ex-husbands, and get bitter, is just heresy and evil.

Take your lying, deceiving devotionals and garbage elsewhere. You are no scholar, and neither is Joseph Prince. And he has no heart for the hurting and broken, just like you apparently do not either!

What an evil spirit of despair and hatred this false hypergrace gospel has! And what a spirit of condemnation for those who have been hurt by life. I'm shocked that you would even post this kind of vile garbage. Have you become that judgemental??

that's kind of over the top, right?

I think someone hit a nerve of yours and I'm not WOF and I don't watch J Prince

honestly, the ugliness revealed in this thread sounds very personal

I think some people need a real good sit down with Jesus

 

[Denadii]

There seem to be some very angry and bitter people on this site. It's so sad.

 

[sevenseas]

What an evil spirit of despair and hatred this false hypergrace gospel has! And what a spirit of condemnation for those who have been hurt by life. I'm shocked that you would even post this kind of vile garbage. Have you become that judgemental??

honestly Angela, for your own sake take it easy

 

[Angela53510]

So I just caught up to this part of the thread. Sorry I am not here all the time. Between gardening and Greek, I also have this real life, like practicing in the worship team, my family and my private devotional time, and I just can't be on-line all the time.

It seems like the pms have been flying fast and furious as all the Word Faith and hypergrace people come out of their stupors, to defend their cult on this thread!

Now hypergrace is banned, so let's not get into that, specifically Joanie Marie and her disgusting Joseph Prince devotionals. But, I would be delighted to discuss the OP, and the Bible regarding Word Faith.

Instead, Word Faith people are just here being slanderous and full of malice. At this point, even a few bible verses out of context would be better than all these bitter and angry Word Faith people sharing opinions and hearsay, like some woman who died because she was bitter about an abusive husband. Say what? Is that really the kind of shallow and poor examples Joseph Prince preaches about all the time! Woe is me!


So, I am going to ask kindly one more time, if you have not read the OP, then please read it and comment on it. There is no point in calling it "rot" point out the things you do not think are Biblical. Use context, please. I can make God save all the demons, if I pull things out of context, but that is not Scriptural either.

So - The OP - please answer the Scriptures I have posted, in context, and say why what I have posted is wrong. If you cannot do that, then go start your own post of opinions and half truths, ok?

 

[Grace777x70]

I just don't see the supposedly "disgusting things" being said about the loveliness of our Lord Jesus Christ. I get this man's devotionals and he lifts up Christ and is calling believers to in trust in Christ Himself and His finished work for every aspect of their lives.

Here is an example.

[TABLE="class: x_templateContainer, width: 600"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: x_mcnImageBlock, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: x_mcnImageBlockInner"][TABLE="class: x_mcnImageContentContainer, width: 100%, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD="class: x_mcnImageContent, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: x_mcnTextBlock, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: x_mcnTextBlockInner"][TABLE="class: x_mcnTextContentContainer, width: 100%, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD="class: x_mcnTextContent, align: center"]

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”​

Hebrews 8:12 [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: x_mcnTextBlock, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: x_mcnTextBlockInner"][TABLE="class: x_mcnTextContentContainer, width: 100%, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD="class: x_mcnTextContent, align: left"]- MAY 2 -
GOD DOESN’T REMEMBER HOW BAD YOU WERE


[HR][/HR]Perhaps you have heard people say of others: “Oh, if only you had seen my husband in
the early years of our marriage. He had such an explosive temper that I used
to seek shelter in my mother’s house!”

“No one would have ever guessed that she had such a promiscuous past.”
“As a young boy, he would always lie through his teeth and not even bat an eyelid!”

Man looks at you and remembers what you were like in the past.
But when God looks at you through the new covenant, He declares,
“I will be merciful to your unrighteousness, and your sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

He states it plainly in His Word as if to assure us: “When you come to Me,
don’t think that I am thinking about your sins. Don’t think that every time I look
at you, I am reminded of your sins. Not only am I not keeping a record,
but I am also not mindful of your failures and shortcomings.

I am telling you that I will remember your sins no more, never again!”
God can say that all our sins He remembers no more because there
was a time when He remembered them and punished every one of them
—in the body of His Son at the cross. He punished every single one of them
until Jesus cried out, “It is finished!” (John 19:30) That is why today, G
od can justly say, “Your sins I will remember no more.”

We all know that we sin from time to time. But the good news is that all our sins
have already been dealt with at the cross. They have been washed away by Jesus’ blood.
Now, when we come into God’s presence, He sees us without our sins.
So beloved, forget your past failures.

Believe that God remembers your sins no more and be the righteous man
that you already are in Christ!
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[preacher4truth]

Take your disgusting promotional plugs for Joseph Prince elsewhere. You have been reported!


As far as exegetics?? Taking Mara and making it about bitterness and resentment, instead of the taste of bitterness in the water. (Caused by either minerals or a high PH level) and somehow projecting that as a "cause" why people are not healed today is just more of this diseased gospel you keep pushing in this forum, Joanie-Marie.

Open your eyes and see that Joseph Prince is no teacher. He is a charlatan and liar, knows nothing about hermeneutics, and you have been totally ENSNARED in his evil trap since I have know you.

No one should be bitter, but this victim blaming, saying people DIE because they have been abused by their ex-husbands, and get bitter, is just heresy and evil.

Take your lying, deceiving devotionals and garbage elsewhere. You are no scholar, and neither is Joseph Prince. And he has no heart for the hurting and broken, just like you apparently do not either!

What an evil spirit of despair and hatred this false hypergrace gospel has! And what a spirit of condemnation for those who have been hurt by life. I'm shocked that you would even post this kind of vile garbage. Have you become that judgemental??

Deceptive posts with a false lying gospel like hers need this type of sharp rebuke. Pretty certain someone told me that posting that nonsense from "that camp" is breaking the rules. Is this true?

 

[ForthAngel]

Take your disgusting promotional plugs for Joseph Prince elsewhere. You have been reported!


As far as exegetics?? Taking Mara and making it about bitterness and resentment, instead of the taste of bitterness in the water. (Caused by either minerals or a high PH level) and somehow projecting that as a "cause" why people are not healed today is just more of this diseased gospel you keep pushing in this forum, Joanie-Marie.

Open your eyes and see that Joseph Prince is no teacher. He is a charlatan and liar, knows nothing about hermeneutics, and you have been totally ENSNARED in his evil trap since I have know you.

No one should be bitter, but this victim blaming, saying people DIE because they have been abused by their ex-husbands, and get bitter, is just heresy and evil.

Take your lying, deceiving devotionals and garbage elsewhere. You are no scholar, and neither is Joseph Prince. And he has no heart for the hurting and broken, just like you apparently do not either!

What an evil spirit of despair and hatred this false hypergrace gospel has! And what a spirit of condemnation for those who have been hurt by life. I'm shocked that you would even post this kind of vile garbage. Have you become that judgemental??

The probable irony in all of this is that all these people on here backing up these heretics probably have regularly scheduled doctor's appointments and go to the ER when something major happens. So much for their paper thin theology when them or a child of theirs breaks something or has a major illness. Either the crushing weight of despair will overcome them when something fatal or terminal illness happens and they will curse God, or they themselves will be decimated thinking "I wasn't good enough or was lacking faith". Or more probable, they are simply hypocrites. My vote is on the latter for most.

Honestly, some of them need a good dose of reality to break them from this spiritual slumber and disease that's consuming them.

 

[ForthAngel]

Deceptive posts with a false lying gospel like hers need this type of sharp rebuke. Pretty certain someone told me that posting that nonsense from "that camp" is breaking the rules. Is this true?

Think the topic is off-limits in both directions.

 

[Angela53510]

honestly Angela, for your own sake take it easy

So a devotional is allowed to be posted which is judgmental and condemning, (and hypergrace which is banned,) in such a way that hurts anyone who has suffered in a bad relationship and I am not allowed to comment on it?

I have not commented on JoanieMarie, except that she has judged and condemned many people with that false and heretical devotional.

Which does bring me back to my biggest objection to the entire Word Faith heresy, after we have dealt with the fact that it is a totally false and twisted version of the gospel as laid out in the Bible.

And that it is a hurtful and judgmental gospel, condemning anyone who is not instantly healed or wealthy. It was that way when I got sick in 1999, and nothing has changed in 18 years.

I hurts my heart to hear the constant stories, not just of people being hurt emotionally by this damaging and condeming "name it and claim it" gospel, but to hear new storie all the time of people who have died, because they trusted this false gospel for healing and health, instead of getting medical treatment and growing closer to God through it all.

Or for all the people who have given "sacrificially" to some charlatan internet preacher, and got nothing back, while that preacher went on to buy themselves a bigger mansion, fancier cars and even airplanes.

How many young Christians have walked away from God, when they didn't get what they wanted. When they named and claimed, and proclaimed, and yet, God chose to answer their prayer a different way? And they were never taught the lie that this false gospel is, which is being taken around the world to the truly poor, who then became angry at a God they never reallly knew? This heresy is fodder for cultivating jihadists!

Word Faith is a heresy which brings death. Oh, I wish people would read the Bible and see the truth that the gospel is about salvation from sin, and a relationship with Jesus Christ, the Creator of the universe. Not about how to get more money and better wealth! We do not have perfect health and a perfect life before Jesus returns! That is the truth. If you want Scriptures, read my MANY posts throughout this thread!

 

[Denadii]

So I just caught up to this part of the thread. Sorry I am not here all the time. Between gardening and Greek, I also have this real life, like practicing in the worship team, my family and my private devotional time, and I just can't be on-line all the time.

It seems like the pms have been flying fast and furious as all the Word Faith and hypergrace people come out of their stupors, to defend their cult on this thread!

Now hypergrace is banned, so let's not get into that, specifically Joanie Marie and her disgusting Joseph Prince devotionals. But, I would be delighted to discuss the OP, and the Bible regarding Word Faith.

Instead, Word Faith people are just here being slanderous and full of malice. At this point, even a few bible verses out of context would be better than all these bitter and angry Word Faith people sharing opinions and hearsay, like some woman who died because she was bitter about an abusive husband. Say what? Is that really the kind of shallow and poor examples Joseph Prince preaches about all the time! Woe is me!


So, I am going to ask kindly one more time, if you have not read the OP, then please read it and comment on it. There is no point in calling it "rot" point out the things you do not think are Biblical. Use context, please. I can make God save all the demons, if I pull things out of context, but that is not Scriptural either.

So - The OP - please answer the Scriptures I have posted, in context, and say why what I have posted is wrong. If you cannot do that, then go start your own post of opinions and half truths, ok?

Just for us new people here....Who are you Angela? Are you an admin? Why are you on a worship team? Does your worship team spout such vitriol when they disagree with someone? So many questons.....What is hypergrace anyway...I just learned what Word of Faith is...

 

[Angela53510]

What do you guys do when you come upon God's promises in his word???

Why not start a thread on God's promises,and make yourself read them without the "evil prince wof,Myers prism" ?????

Do a study. Post your verses and findings.

See the mountains of blessing you are pooo pooo-ing.

As usual, you have not addressed my Scriptures in the OP. You have not even posted any of your own. Just more nonsense! Why not start your own thread, if you want to exalt all these evil men, and pull Scriptures out of context? I started this thread to discuss the BIBLE, which you have not done, and are not doing!

Please leave this thread if you are not going to address the OP, and discuss whether the foundational Scriptures posted by the Word Faith movement are true in context, or not!