And DOES Them....

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
#1
Matthew 7v24
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]“Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: [SUP]25 [/SUP]and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: [SUP]27 [/SUP]and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”


- These are the last verses capping off the Sermon on the Mount.
- By implication, this then means all that the Lord said before this, including everything back to Matthew 5.
- It encapsulates Lordship salvation. You cannot have Jesus as savior unless you are willing to lay down your life and have Him as Lord.

What do you think the previous paragraph to the above words were?

[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


- Question 1: Can someone who doesn't do the will of the Father enter heaven?
- If you answer "Yes" to the above question, then re-read verse 21, and answer question 1 again. Repeat as often as necessary.

What do you think the previous paragraph to these above words were?

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by their fruits you will know them.


- the build up to these very profound words (namely doing the will of the Father) is a stern warning to beware of false prophets.
- the placement of these verses is telling. Because we see the following in the church today. False prophets (sheeps clothing / calling themselves Christian brothers) who tell the rest that doing the will of God is not necessary and won't affect their salvation --- whereas it is clear from verse 21 and verse 27 that it clearly does.
- we see this spirit of the antichrist (in doctrine) already here.


To believe is to do. To believe is to obey.

Hebrews 3
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? [SUP]19 [/SUP]So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

- so you see, belief and obedience is totally and inseparably interlinked.
- two sides of the same coin.

James 1
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

- self explanatory
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#2
As long as our obedience is coming from loving the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind and strength...it's right eous.

But, if it's because of "we must" which is law? I would think the Lord is grieved much.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
#3
As long as our obedience is coming from loving the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind and strength...it's right eous.

But, if it's because of "we must" which is law? I would think the Lord is grieved much.
John 14
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“If you love Me, keep[SUP][a][/SUP] My commandments.

1 John 3
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1 John 5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#4
The problem is always how we read the scriptures. It seems to be the natural man is about law...the spiritual man is about love.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
#5
The problem is always how we read the scriptures. It seems to be the natural man is about law...the spiritual man is about love.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#6
The problem is always how we read the scriptures. It seems to be the natural man is about law...the spiritual man is about love.
OMG like seriously this post here is absolute gold like wow, wow and wow a hundred times:D
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#7
All Christians agree what the true Christian life looks like when Christ is manifesting the fruit of His life in us. The dis-connect comes when people talk about "how is this done".

Works-based belief systems use the Old Covenant mindset to try to effect transformation in Christians. Grace-based belief relies totally on the life and work of Christ in them to transform them by His love and grace towards us.

A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.

In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing

New Covenant =
Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"

Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.

Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"

Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..

So they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..
in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me."

New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ.

They would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer.

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]
We love, because He first loved us.

Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0

Ahhh..found His commandments in 1 John 3.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.


...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. We try to mix the Old Covenant ( before the cross and resurrection ) with the New Covenant and we get a religious mess.

Religious traditions of men, philosophies of men, ..what we were told all our lives in church or in the world etc. ..all influence how we view scripture. Sometimes some of our "sacred cows" can get sacrificed and it's painful.

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8[/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#8
Only love can fulfill the law that is to be written on our hearts, you can follow all these laws as best as you can but without love the law is not truly written on your heart.
Love comes first everything else follows especially the law
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#9
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Everyone that confesses Jesus,not an option,not an opinion,but must,has to,expedient,that they depart from iniquity,which is what Jesus said,they cannot dwell with Him because they were workers of iniquity,which they did not do the will of the Father,which is to depart from iniquity,which by the Spirit we can do if we do not want sin,cease from iniquity.

Iniquity,Iniquity,what's your snickerty.
Making sure the saints are in error.
Iniquity,Iniquity,why you so pickety.
Got lots of saint to deceive.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

They will not allow the Spirit to lead them,and love worldliness,and they mingle in with the world enjoying the activities that they do,especially the spending of money on entertainment,and wants,while the world is in need.

The truth is they do not want to cease from sin,because it is not that we cannot cease from sin,but we want to sin,for we have a choice between good,and evil,and we are not forced to do evil,and the choice to do good is there,and how much more can we abstain from sin by the Spirit,for they will show the character of the Spirit,and not the flesh.

They interpret by the flesh,for they want to enjoy sin,and then say we cannpt abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with Jesus,but Jesus is saying,hold up,I never said that,do not put words in My mouth.

God says He wants all people to be saved,repent,and come to the truth,and the Spirit and bride say,Come,and anybody can have salvation.

But they say it is not so,we were chosen,and cannot fall,but the Bible says,if any person thinks they stand take heed lest they fall.

Jesus addressed the Churches in Revelation according to their error,and said,they have fallen,to repent,or He will go against them.

If they believe that they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,were they saved in the first place.
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#10
CUT AND PASTE DIATRIBE
The cut and paste never ends huh?

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...g-away-faith-its-possible-35.html#post3111376
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...teousness-christ-doctrine-10.html#post3053829

Here, I will cut and paste one for you...

2) Of course someone can be caught in the flesh such as pornography or even malice or slander and still be saved. Have you ever read 1 Cor? I'll post about this after this post.
Engaged in murder, theft, adultery, pornography, rape, child molestation, slander, malice, fraud, lying, and any sin imaginable, and yet still be "saved."

The salvation you believe in is a complete farce.

While you were cut and pasting I wrote a book and the book is available for free. :)

"One In Us" - It Is the Gift of God by Scott Wilson (eBook) - Lulu
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#11
1Jn 4:15  God abides in the one who acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, and he abides in God.
 

1Jn 4:16  We have come to know and rely on the love that God has for us. God is love, and the person who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
 

1Jn 4:17  This is how love has been perfected among us: we will have confidence on the day of judgment because, during our time in this world, we are just like him. 


1Jn 4:18  There is no fear where love exists. Rather, perfect love banishes fear, for fear involves punishment, and the person who lives in fear has not been perfected in love.
 

1Jn 4:19  We love because God first loved us.
 

1Jn 4:20  Whoever says, "I love God," but hates his brother is a liar. The one who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love the God whom he has not seen.
 

1Jn 4:21


  And this is the commandment that we have from him: the person who loves God must also love his brother. 

John also talks about young men, old men..and babes in Christ.

As we grow into Him..our love is perfected.

We are not instantly young men/ old men.

Grace isn't wrong. A babe may stumble and repent...but chastisement will eventually get him/ her further in the walk.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death.

Even love is given..

~
Rom 5:5  Now this hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured out into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

Holy Spirit causes us to grow.

Grace 7 isn't wrong.  












 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#12
I believe that the Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians....

Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.

Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.

1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]
And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]
I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,

[SUP]3 [/SUP]
for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?


I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".

- not that you are going to hell because you are sinning.
Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God and now going to hell.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#13
There is a massive difference between church discipline to protect the people and the Lord sending you to hell as can be seen by the letter Paul said to the 1 Corinthians.

Paul told them who they were in Christ...then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now or that because they were sinning that they were not born of God like some people try to teach.

( without understanding the new creation in Christ - this "sinning" part will throw people off because they don't understand what is being done by giving in to the flesh and what the new man is Christ really is. )

Paul told them who they were in Christ
...
Here are 7 things that Paul confirmed as truth in the believers in Corinth before he went on to correct their behavior.


1)
The Corinthians have been sanctified in Christ Jesus,

2) The Corinthians were now
saints by calling

3)
The Corinthians in everything were enriched in Him,

4) The Corinthians had
the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in them,

5) The Corinthians had
that God will also confirm them to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ

6) The Corinthians had that it was by Gods doing that we are in Christ
( Not our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness and holiness
)

7) That because the Corinthians were in Christ - Christ Himself became to them wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption



1 Corinthians 1:2-9 (NASB)

[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,


Preach and teach the grace of Christ as it is the only think that teaches us how to live godly in this world. Titus 2:11-12. The word of His grace is the only thing that is able to build us up and that gives us the inheritance that is ours in Christ. Acts 20:32
 
Last edited:

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#14
You know David had the right heart and mindset when it came to the law. He was far from innocent of not keeping it yet even so how often he would boast of God for his law how he would say it was like a crown adorned on his head and when he failed in keeping it and stumbled sometimes very badly he cried out to God for forgiveness and would be strengthened once again by doing so.

For David the law was not a heavy burden or a curse it was life and joy it was the glory and honor of god placed upon his head like a glorious crown even though he failed to keep it so much he knew of God's grace and would in fact often times praise God of his grace. I call Psalms the book of encouragement and for good reason, it was because of how I read psalms that I felt a kinship with Davids heart almost as if we were kindred spirits.

The law has a physical aspect of it which was known all to well in the OT no one could ever amount to it even to this day we cannot fully keep ten simple commandments and it's easy to see the law with a carnal mind but for those who see through spiritual eyes know that the law is like the vitamins our body needs to be healthy and happy, have you ever noticed how you seem to be in much better sync with god when you obey him? How you naturally have more hope and faith and seem to have more life in you?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#15
I need to correct that one post I made. It's not old men...Fathers. Makes a difference.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#16
I have made this statement many times but I'll do it again so that no deceitfulness can be attempted by others.

Personally I am vehemently against all forms of sinning as they all bring destruction of some sort to us while on this earth - especially the one of unbelief in Christ's finished work on the cross.


Here is my view on sin and it's affects on us and on how the Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of our Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

Sin changes our perspective on things and causes us to not look at our Father in the right light of who He truly is. ( The same as Adam and Eve did when they hid from Him even though He was still coming to visit with them and He still took care of them )

Sin also affects our ability to have harmonious relationships with others and it also distorts our view of others as well as ourselves. Sin is deceitful.


We chose to live holy lives because we are just being who we truly are in Christ - not to maintain right standing with God. This living good holy lives creates right relationships with people, it will not give our enemy an influence in our lives and it is a good witness to the world.


Your true identity is not defined by your struggles, mistakes, or sinful actions. These are all confined to the flesh and are the works of the flesh as Paul said. Who you are is defined by your new birth in Christ. You are who you are by His grace and life in you!

Behavioral issues are usually the result of trying to live under the law in some form - such as the false doctrine of "sinless perfection in the flesh".

It is all self-righteousness and denies the righteousness of God in Christ. The law is the strength of sin. The law was brought in so that sin would increase and show that we need a Savior!

Once you understand you are completely accepted and sin free forever in Jesus in your inner man created in righteousness and holiness - and that this is your permanent state for all eternity in Christ - the behavioral issues will fall off of our lives like dead leaves.

The "sap" of His life in and through us transforms us outwardly by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of the Lord Jesus. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

I maintain that the preaching and teaching of the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ brings true righteousness which is His alone and there will be deeds of His life manifested in us if we are fed Christ Himself and His righteousness to us.

He has cleansed our hearts by faith and now we are to walk from this new heart in Christ.

As we have received Him - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6. It is all by grace through faith in what Christ has already done.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#17
...
Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex...
I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".

- not that you are going to hell because you are sinning.
Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God and now going to hell.
Christian's going to the brothel and being saved at the same time? You just make stuff up.

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

2) Of course someone can be caught in the flesh such as pornography or even malice or slander and still be saved. Have you ever read 1 Cor? I'll post about this after this post.
An individual with a clean heart does not do those kinds of things.

You cannot be raping and murdering and be saved and born of God. That ridiculous.

A pure heart does not rape, murder, steal etc. Yet somehow in your twisted mind a pure heart can produce filth like that.

Cut and pasting lots of words and out of context Bible verses doesn't change the fact that you are arguing in favour of being able to engage in absolute wickedness and yet be in a justified state before God. It is so foolish.

Salvation is not a cloak for evil like you assert.

Salvation is inclusive of a deliverance from evil.
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#18

We chose to live holy lives because we are just being who we truly are in Christ
Who you truly are is reflected by what you actually do. There is no disconnect between deeds and the heart. What you produce in your conduct is reflective of who you are.

If you are raping, murdering, molesting, stealing, lying, cheating, lusting etc. then who you really are is a wicked individual with a defiled heart.

It was the Gnostics who asserted that one could be pure and at the same time be engaged in wickedness. You are just a Gnostic who uses some Bible verses. You believe essentially the same stuff as the Gnostics with your abstract "salvation" belief.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#19
Let's look at it this way. Say a person gets saved - stops doing the "biggie sins" like immorality which would be living the gay lifestyle.

This "good Christian" goes to church every time the doors are open, reads the bible every day, prays 3x every day. But this same person loves to slander others in the body of Christ that have a different opinion then what they do on some subjects. They have malice towards that person. Both malice and slander are in the same lists as the homosexual lifestyle.

Are these "good Christians" still saved? I say that both those that live the gay lifestyle and those that slander others are in the exact same boat. Both are deceived by the deceitfulness of sin.

All the works of the flesh bring destruction of some sort to all of us while on this earth. Is salvation as in being one with the Lord dependent on what we do or what Jesus has already done?

Preach the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ and Christians will have the proper nutrients to have the life of Christ manifesting in their lives so that His fruit will bear in our lives. Then people in the world will see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

"Sinless perfection in the flesh" types which is a works-based / wrorks-righteousness belief system say "we need to save ourselves by what we do or don't do." It is an anti-Christ belief system that actually denies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.

heaven_1.jpg
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#20
We are saved by the life of the Lord Jesus Christ which is in us in our new creation. We are now learning how to walk by the spirit - which is our spirit in union with Christ by the Holy Spirit ( whom Jesus said would be in us forever - John 14:16 ).

Romans 5:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards God Himself, others and ourselves.

I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.

Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.

This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2

We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".

The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.

This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13


As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives.