Martin Luther Invented the "Imputed Righteousness of Christ" Doctrine

eternally-gratefull · Apr 17, 2017

your right, Before no one could approach, Only the high priest. Where4 I think you misunderstand, is no one can approach today, Only The high priest "Christ"

The sacrifice was for atonement of sin, and that only..

I can come to Christ, :the throne of grace" just like the people of the OT could approach the high priest. Who had to make intercession for them.

The reason you need intercession made for you is you still sin.. Grace does not make you perfect as in stop sinning, . It makes you forgiven. Because you are still a sinner.

I pray you look into the OT more, and see the symbology..

Skinski7 · Apr 17, 2017

valiant said:

It means what it says mate. You spin more than a tyre on a road trip.

Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Keep - phulassōProbably from G5443 through the idea of isolation; to watch, that is, be on guard (literally or figuratively); by implication to preserve. obey, avoid: - beware, keep (self), observe, save. Compare G5083.

Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

If - eanFrom G1487 and G302; a conditional particle; in case that, provided, etc.; often used in connection with other particles to denote indefiniteness or uncertainty: - before, but, except, (and) if, (if) so, (what-, whither-) soever, though, when (-soever), whether (or), to whom, [who-] so (-ever). See G3361.

Skinski7 · Apr 17, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

You're simply a contradiction whom speaks out of both sides of your mouth. You believe that you can "believe" whilst you watch porn. What kind of fruit is that?

You might as well believe that one can get a university diploma before one even begins the requisite courses. Just believe it enough and "PRESTO" you're qualified.

It's hard to fathom such stupidity.

When Jesus teaches "hear and do" and to oppose that truth by redefining faith to be "trust alone" requires one to suspend reason.

Genuine faith is inclusive of faithfulness and fidelity which is why a faithful person is not "caught in the flesh" viewing pornography.

Imagine an adulterous husband claiming he is actually faithful because he think the faithfulness of someone else is credited to his account whilst he cheats on his wife. To think that is Christianity is so stupid beyond belief.

Grace777x70 · Apr 17, 2017

A very big factor in looking at scripture is the "lens" you use to view the scripture.

In the Old Covenant " you had to do or else"..If you do this..then I God will do that.." = conditional on the person performing

New Covenant = Jesus has done it for you which empowers you to "do"

Let's take a look at a common scripture with these 2 mindsets.

Jesus said.." If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"

Old Covenant mindset = conditional on the person "doing"..This is the works-righteousness mindset belief system

So they would read it this way.."IF you love Me you will keep My commandments"..in their mind it's saying.."Keep My commandment and you will prove you love Me and of course be saved."

New Covenant mindset = it's a description of who you are in Christ.

They would see this "Jesus' love is in me so I keep His commandments"..it stems out of relationship and it is not conditional but descriptive of the believer. This is what the believer in Christ does when the fruit of Christ is allowed to be manifested in us.

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Then there is more..lol..there seems to be more sometimes eh?..just what are His commandments anyway?..Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect?...can we possibly do that?..of course not..that is Moses 2.0

Ahhh..found His commandments in 1 John 3.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

...the "lens" that we view scriptures greatly affects us. We try to mix the Old Covenant ( before the cross and resurrection ) with the New Covenant and we get a religious mess. This is what creates the "works-righteousness belief system" which actually denies the very grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.

Skinski7 · Apr 17, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

John didn't write a letter telling people that no one can stop sinning. In fact he taught the opposite.

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Peter spoke of the sin stopping.

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Living in the flesh to the lusts of men has ended for the Christian. A Christian lives to the will of God instead.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The Spirit of life in Jesus Christ is the antidote to sin. We whom are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires and no longer walk in the flesh to the lusts of men, instead we walk according to the Spirit of God. Thus we bear the fruit of righteousness as opposed to the fruit of sin.

So simple and so wonderful.

Grace777x70 · Apr 17, 2017

Skinski7 said:

All works of the flesh will bring destruction to our lives and no one is saying porn is good for you.....so we are not falling for your straw-man foolishness. Outbursts of anger, malice, deceit and the slandering of others in the body of Christ are no different then living a homosexual lifestyle.

We preach and teach the grace of God teaches how to live godly in this present world. Christ is our righteousness and this is a stumbling block for the works-righteousness mindset which actually denies the very grace of God needed to walk in His life in this world.

Do you still sin from time to time? We all know that you do - so in your religion - you would be a child of the devil.

Skinski7 · Apr 17, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

How do you honestly convince yourself that you are defending "grace operating in our lives" as it pertains to righteousness when you believe that one can be "under grace" and "saved" yet still watching porn, murdering or molesting children, or whatever else one could imagine?

It is so ridiculous. You just write lots of words which dance around an elephant of the absurd.

Yahshua · Apr 17, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

your right, Before no one could approach, Only the high priest. Where4 I think you misunderstand, is no one can approach today, Only The high priest "Christ"

The sacrifice was for atonement of sin, and that only..

I can come to Christ, :the throne of grace" just like the people of the OT could approach the high priest. Who had to make intercession for them.

The reason you need intercession made for you is you still sin.. Grace does not make you perfect as in stop sinning, . It makes you forgiven. Because you are still a sinner.

I pray you look into the OT more, and see the symbology..

Sigh...

Ok EG. Tyvm

Grace777x70 · Apr 17, 2017

Skinski7 said:

It is obvious you have no idea of what the gospel is nor understand the power of God in revealing His righteousness for us to live godly in this present world. Your self-righteousness false doctrine is deceiving you my friend.

I am saying that the true grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross will teach us how to live godly in this present world and will manifest His life and bear His fruit in our lives. Not your straw-man argument of distortion and deception.

Do you still sin from time to time? We all know you do - so in your own religion - you are a child of the devil and no one who sins is of God.

( you do realize that lying is a sin....right? )

Skinski7 · Apr 17, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

That's right, no one is saying that. But someone did say this...

You are literally trying to sell Satan's first lie that one can sin and not surely die.

The "salvation" you believe is pure imaginary because you think it has nothing to do with actually getting free from sin.

Would you tell a prisoner in jail they are free if they just "believe it" even though they are still locked up? It is so absurd and stupid.

I suppose you write lots of words to just comfort yourself.

The Bible says...

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Yet you say...

You would have been calling the Apostle John a child of the devil back in the day.

Grace777x70 · Apr 17, 2017

I believe that the Holy Spirit knew what He was doing when He had Paul write 1 Corinthians....He wrote this for the "sinless perfection in the flesh" group that deny the work of Christ.

Some of them were going to temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, they were in divisions and strife, they were not treating the poor amongst them right...etc.

Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.

1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?

I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".

- not that you are going to hell because you are sinning. Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God.

Grace777x70 · Apr 17, 2017

Looks like it's time for the Apostle of the grace of God to speak to us again.

Paul told them who they were in Christ...then corrected their behavior...he didn't say you were all unsaved now or that because they were sinning that they were not born of God like some people try to teach - like the sinless perfection in the flesh group.

( without understanding the new creation in Christ - this "sinning" part will throw people off because they don't understand what is being done by giving in to the flesh and what the new man in Christ really is. )

Paul told them who they were in Christ...Here are 7 things that Paul confirmed as truth in the believers in Corinth before he went on to correct their behavior.

1) The Corinthians have been sanctified in Christ Jesus,

2) The Corinthians were now saints by calling

3) The Corinthians in everything were enriched in Him,

4)The Corinthians had the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in them,

5) The Corinthians had that God will also confirm them to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ

6) The Corinthians had that it was by Gods doing that we are in Christ

( Not our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness and holiness )

7) That because the Corinthians were in Christ - Christ Himself became to them wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption

1 Corinthians 1:1-9 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

Preach and teach the grace of Christ as it is the only thing that teaches us how to live godly in this world. Titus 2:11-12.

The word of His grace is the only thing that is able to build us up and that gives us the inheritance that is ours in Christ. Acts 20:32

eternally-gratefull · Apr 17, 2017

Yahshua said:

sigh,

i will ill pray for you.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 17, 2017

it is a lost cause to argue with skinski7 he has been preaching his sinless perfection doctrine for years.. better to just turn over to God.

Skinski7 · Apr 17, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

You also say...

Which demonstrates that this "teaching us to live godly" stuff you speak of is MEANINGLESS because you treat it as purely optional.

Again it is like my example of the university course. In your world view you you get a diploma simply because you "believe" that the "diploma of someone else is credited to your account." Thus the actual schooling is OPTIONAL because you think the RESULT of the schooling is not related to the diploma itself. That is why you think one can be watching porn or molesting children and be "saved" and "righteous." It is ridiculous.

Skinski7 · Apr 17, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Of course it is because I am right. He who does what is right is righteous.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

You cannot be engaged in filth and wickedness and be a genuine Christian. Christian's are godly people because they FOLLOW God.

Grace777x70 · Apr 17, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

I agree...At least the readers can see what is really being said and that righteousness only comes from belief in Christ's work and that His life in us if we are fed the grace and love of Christ will manifest in us as doing good deeds and living godly.

The Holy Spirit will transform us as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18 We get to participate in this with Him "For it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure.". Phil. 2:13

All these "sinless perfection in the flesh" types that we have seen here always refuse to acknowledge that they still sin from time to time because it exposes their false self-righteousness works-based religion for what it is.

If they do sin - which we all know they still do from time to time - this means that they in their own religion are a child of the devil and that they are not of God. They can't have that happening because they are basing everything on their own righteousness and not on Christ's which is why they refuse Christ's righteousness.

Skinski7 · Apr 17, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

When Paul was speaking to the Corinthians the carnal conduct addressed was raising one teacher above another and bringing people to worldly courts, it was not porn, molestation, murder etc.

Paul clearly stated...

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

The reason in that other post you don't want to make a distinction between those kinds of sins and sins of ignorance is you want "child molestation" to be the same as "raising one teacher above another" in your mind.

Paul made a distinction and said plainly that certain types of conduct will disqualify you from the kingdom, the kind of conduct that flows from a vile and corrupted heart.

The man whom was committing adultery with his fathers wife was kicked out of the congregation because that kind of sin was a disqualifying sin. A Christian is not to "fellowship" with the immoral. There is no immorality in Christianity.

You just twist the scripture by posting lots of words, but the fundamental error which is the ELEPHANT is your denial that heart purity has anything to do with salvation. Hence you think one can be raping, stealing or whatever and be "saved" at the same time. Pure and very obvious nonsense.

Grace777x70 · Apr 17, 2017

I have made this statement many times but I'll do it again so that no deceitfulness can be attempted by others.

Personally I am vehemently against all forms of sinning as they all bring destruction of some sort to us while on this earth - especially the one of unbelief in Christ's finished work on the cross.

Here is my view on sin and it's affects on us and on how the Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of our Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

Sin changes our perspective on things and causes us to not look at our Father in the right light of who He truly is. ( The same as Adam and Eve did when they hid from Him even though He was still coming to visit with them and He still took care of them )

Sin also affects our ability to have harmonious relationships with others and it also distorts our view of others as well as ourselves. Sin is deceitful.

We chose to live holy lives because we are just being who we truly are in Christ - not to maintain right standing with God. This living good holy lives creates right relationships with people, it will not give our enemy an influence in our lives and it is a good witness to the world.

Your true identity is not defined by your struggles, mistakes, or sinful actions. These are all confined to the flesh and are the works of the flesh as Paul said. Who you are is defined by your new birth in Christ. You are who you are by His grace and life in you!

Behavioral issues are usually the result of trying to live under the law in some form - such as the false doctrine of "sinless perfection in the flesh".

It is all self-righteousness and denies the righteousness of God in Christ. The law is the strength of sin. The law was brought in so that sin would increase and show that we need a Savior!

Once you understand you are completely accepted and sin free forever in Jesus in your inner man created in righteousness and holiness - and that this is your permanent state for all eternity in Christ - the behavioral issues will fall off of our lives like dead leaves.

The "sap" of His life in and through us transforms us outwardly by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of the Lord Jesus. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

I maintain that the preaching and teaching of the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ brings true righteousness which is His alone and there will be deeds of His life manifested in us if we are fed Christ Himself and His righteousness to us.

He has cleansed our hearts by faith and now we are to walk from this new heart in Christ.

As we have received Him - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6. It is all by grace through faith in what Christ has already done.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

limey410 · Apr 17, 2017

Skinski7 said:

So watching porn is the sin bar that God has set?

I'm sure there are a lot more creative sins out there that would disgust God just as much.

Although the only one that will damn you to eternal hell is the sin of unbelief. All others have been fully forgiven.

You minimize the evilness of sin by suggesting that the sacrifice paid on the cross doesn't forgive it all, or just isn't quite enough, or is that + some. Its not. It is just exactly what it says it was. Finished.

The irony is all of the "be righteous" crowd sin just as much as anyone else in the world. Just look at sin in the church today.
I know atheists that live closer to the righteous life you describe than some saved people trying to continually cleanse themselves, when Christ already cleansed us, and now just wants an unfettered relationship with us, so that He can finish the work that He started in the new creation.

There is a sin in the church and that is not trusting Jesus and looking toward Him and having the relationship He truly desires with us.
That paralysis that you all feel because you truly can't accept how close you are to Jesus, unless you do a bunch of stuff.
Gut it out for God.

Obey a whole lot, and when you fall short in your sin give Grace a chance to clean up your mess, and then get back to it.

Its false teaching.

Point people to Jesus, not the law, (Really more of a Levitical lite, your not really doing the real Law, good luck with that) and live out of the abundance of the inheritance that has already been given to you. Him, He gave Himself to you. When you received that, it doesn't have strings attached, its God for crying out loud!!!!

Have some peace, get some rest. The stupidity is really in your ignorance of what the Messiah has accomplished, and your unwillingness to truly accept it. God Bless you man, I pray for your release from your self imposed bondage.

Martin Luther Invented the "Imputed Righteousness of Christ" Doctrine

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