And DOES Them....

[Skinski7]

Let's look at it this way. Say a person gets saved - stops doing the "biggie sins" like immorality which would be living the gay lifestyle.

This "good Christian" goes to church every time the doors are open, reads the bible every day, prays 3x every day. But this same person loves to slander others in the body of Christ that have a different opinion then what they do on some subjects. They have malice towards that person. Both malice and slander are in the same lists as the homosexual lifestyle.

Are these "good Christians" still saved? I say that both those that live the gay lifestyle and those that slander others are in the exact same boat. Both are deceived by the deceitfulness of sin.

All the works of the flesh bring destruction of some sort to all of us while on this earth. Is salvation as in being one with the Lord dependent on what we do or what Jesus has already done?

"Sinless perfection in the flesh" types which is a works-based / wrorks-righteousness belief system say "we need to save ourselves by what we do or don't do." It is an anti-Christ belief system that actually denies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it was meant to.

All sin has stopped in genuine salvation.

A pure heart does not engage in malice and slander, nor in murder and rape. An individual is not "good" if they are DOING evil. An individual is not "saved" if they are DOING evil. If you are DOING evil it is because you are evil. It is as simple as that.

You are just trying to find some excuse for being able to sin and not surely die. That is Satan's lie.

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

2) Of course someone can be caught in the flesh such as pornography or even malice or slander and still be saved. Have you ever read 1 Cor? I'll post about this after this post.

Salvation is inclusive of a total character renovation, the heart has been purified. It is impossible to be "abiding in Christ" and at the same time be malicious and slanderous. Likewise it is impossible to be "abiding in Christ" and at the same time be raping and murdering.

It is not "sinless perfection" to be faithful and loving to God and your neighbour. That is just your buzz term to avoid a discussion of your Gnosticism. John refuted the Gnostics and he refutes you.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[Grace777x70]

All sin has stopped in genuine salvation.

A pure heart does not engage in malice and slander, nor in murder and rape. Any individual is not "good" if they are DOING evil. An individual is not "saved" if they are DOING evil.

You are just trying to find some excuse for being able to sin and not surely die. That is Satan's lie.



Salvation is inclusive of a total character renovation, the heart has been purified. It is impossible to be "abiding in Christ" and at the same time be malicious and slanderous. Likewise it is impossible to be "abiding in Christ" and at the same time be raping and murdering.

It is not "sinless perfection" to be faithful and loving to God and your neighbour. That is just your buzz term to avoid a discussion of your Gnosticism. John refuted the Gnostics and he refutes you.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Do you still sin from time to time? Answer truthfully. Many have asked you this question and you never answer. Let's take your religion for a test run.

 

[Chris1975]

Do you still sin from time to time? Answer truthfully. Many have asked you this question and you never answer. Let's take your religion for a test run.

[video=youtube;RUQ2WGA8mJQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUQ2WGA8mJQ[/video]

 

[Skinski7]

Do you still sin from time to time? Answer truthfully. Many have asked you this question and you never answer. Let's take your religion for a test run.

I have answered that question a bunch of times on this forum.

No I don't sin. Why would I? Sinning is abhorrent. By "sin" I mean doing wrong when I know it is wrong, I am not referring to a sin of ignorance like a misjudgment of a matter or accidental carelessness, situational factors would come into play there.

When I speak of "sin" I mean choosing evil when you know it is evil, either a violation of the conscience or a violation of God's moral law. Thus a Christian CANNOT be engaged in things like rape, murder, hatred, maliciousness, slander, pornography, lusting, etc. because all those things are the antithesis of love.

You are the one who believes that a Christian can be actively engaged in things like like rape, murder, hatred, maliciousness, slander, pornography, lusting and not be under condemnation. So foolish.

Your purpose is clearly a desire to see everyone as sinners so you can advocate salvation as a license for ongoing wickedness. It is such foolishness.

It is so foolish to actually give comfort to someone engaged in wickedness, to assert that they can be engaged in wickedness and at the same time be "in Christ." It is dangerous, unloving and nonsense.

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

2) Of course someone can be caught in the flesh such as pornography or even malice or slander and still be saved. Have you ever read 1 Cor? I'll post about this after this post.

 

[Grace777x70]

I have answered that question a bunch of times on this forum.

No I don't sin. Why would I? Sinning is abhorrent. By "sin" I mean doing wrong when I know it is wrong, I am not referring to a sin of ignorance like a misjudgment of a matter or accidental carelessness, situational factors would come into play there.

When I speak of "sin" I mean choosing evil when you know it is evil, either a violation of the conscience or a violation of God's moral law. Thus a Christian CANNOT be engaged in things like rape, murder, hatred, maliciousness, slander, pornography, lusting, etc. because all those things are the antithesis of love.

You are the one who believes that a Christian can be actively engaged in things like like rape, murder, hatred, maliciousness, slander, pornography, lusting and not be under condemnation. So foolish.

Your purpose is clearly a desire to see everyone as sinners so you can advocate salvation as a license for ongoing wickedness. It is such foolishness.

It is so foolish to actually give comfort to someone engaged in wickedness, to assert that they can be engaged in wickedness and at the same time be "in Christ." It is dangerous, unloving and nonsense.

You never sin anymore?....Nonsense...you do realize that malice is just as much sinning as living a homosexual lifestyle?

 

[Grace777x70]

If no one says "What?..are you saying people can just go and sin all we want now because of grace?" ..if no one says that - then you are not preaching the gospel of the grace of Christ.

No one is saying to go out and sin all you want now because of grace but people should be accusing you of saying that if you are really preaching the same gospel that Paul preached. He was continuously slandered with this same accusation. In 4x times alone in Romans Paul had to come against those that were accusing Paul of being antinomian.

The grace of God teaches us how to live godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-12.

Sin is stupid and against our new nature in Christ which is created in righteousness and holiness. Sin is deceitful and will destroy us on this earth as well as those we love and ruins our witness for the Lord. But sin does not take away our eternal life in Christ. Our spirit is safe in Christ because we are in Him and it is His finished work that brings eternal salvation to us.

Make no mistake about it..the gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous.

 

[Skinski7]

You never sin anymore?....Nonsense...you do realize that malice is just as much sinning as living a homosexual lifestyle?

You are just an unbeliever.

The children of God are manifest in that they do not commit sin.

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

If you are still committing sin then you are a child of the devil.

 

[Skinski7]

...sin does not take away our eternal life in Christ. Our spirit is safe in Christ because we are in Him and it is His finished work that brings eternal salvation to us.

That is just Gnostic philosophy established upon a foundation of substitution theology.

There is no "finished work of Jesus" that cloaks your ongoing wickedness. That belief of yours is just a slight variation of the Platonic Gnostic belief of the demiurge where you attribute evil to matter (flesh in your case) and then appeal to a higher plane which is pure (which is your "in Christ"). Thus salvation to you is a pure abstraction that has NOTHING to do with conduct because you disconnect "deeds done" from the true condition of the "soul."

Your a Gnostic posing as a Christian.

Jesus died to purge and purify those whom would repent, not those whom refuse to repent and keep working iniquity. In your religious philosophy you believe Jesus died to cloak wickedness, essentially a license to sin because you claim the sin never stops. You even assert that one can be engaged in fornication and saved at the same time. It is so stupid.

You don't have any "dying to sin" in your belief. There is no "escaping the corruption in the world through lust" in your belief. Just like the majority of people on these forums, you're not a Christian, you just use the label.

 

[Grace777x70]

You are just an unbeliever.

The children of God are manifest in that they do not commit sin.

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

If you are still committing sin then you are a child of the devil.

So, in your religion - you have just condemned yourself with your "interpretation" of 1 John 3:9

It says that the one born of God can NOT sin - and you have admitted that you do still sin from time to time - so in your religion - you are of the devil and not born of God. Your own religion has condemned you as many have told you before.

You fail to understand the new creation in Christ and the circumcision of the body of flesh from the inner man that is in Christ. Unfortunately this is why your reject the gospel message of the righteousness of God in Christ and now have to create and maintain your own righteousness. Rom. 1:17 & 1 Cor. 1:30

This verse here in 1 John 5:18 says the same thing basically as 1 John 3:9...it says that the one born of God cannot sin. I don't believe the new creation in Christ can sin as 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 speaks about.

It is definitely in the present tense which means "doing a sin now". Present tense is always present tense. Whether it is one sin or a thousand sins. I don't believe the new creation in Christ where Christ dwells can be contaminated or touched by sin.

What happens to our spirit where Christ is joined as one with us when we sin if the theory that sin can reach our new man in Christ - which has been created in righteousness and holiness. Do we go in and out of righteousness because it is NOT our righteousness but Christ's alone?

Let's say we sinned ( and whatsoever is not of faith is sin so this could mean any type of sin ) and then we die in a car crash just after we got angry at someone and called them a name ( which Jesus says is a sin in Matt 5:22 ) - we have lost righteousness and thus not able to go to heaven?

There are so many problems when you really stop to ponder the ramifications with the theory that we lose our righteousness because sin touches the inner man in Christ.

We can sin by yielding our members in our flesh if we yield to it and we are responsible with what we do in our bodies. That's why we are to walk by the spirit so that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Jesus is keeping us from the evil one in our new creation in Christ.

 

[MattforJesus]

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him(all the saints get the crown of life).
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren(get rid of your sin,for sin affects your relationship with God).

1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil(you hold unto sin when claiming Christ,you are of the devil until you repent of it,for that is how the children of God,and the children of the devil are separated,by if they do not sin,or sin): whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins( a person that holds unto sin is in error,and their soul is in a position of death,and they need to be converted).

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(material,and monetary): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
1Pe 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Confessing Christ still means abstain from sin,for if you hold unto sin it is unto death.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

If people hold unto sin they do not have the knowledge of God.

Pro 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

People who say we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God,does not fear the LORD,for that is to hate sin,and arrogance.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Without love we are nothing,and love is the fulfilling of the law,so we must have love.

1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

But love does not think an evil thought,and does not rejoice in inquity,and hates sin.

1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully(do not hold unto sin,but get rid of it) after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Some say that we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God,but I take this to a higher court,the court of God that says otherwise.

They can say we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God,but I am not buying it.

And the Bible still says God wants all people to be saved,repent,and come to the truth,and the Spirit and bride,say,Come,and anybody can have that salvation.

But still they will say,we are chosen,and cannot fall.

 

[followjesus]

Matthew 7v24
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]“Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: [SUP]25 [/SUP]and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: [SUP]27 [/SUP]and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”


- These are the last verses capping off the Sermon on the Mount.
- By implication, this then means all that the Lord said before this, including everything back to Matthew 5.
- It encapsulates Lordship salvation. You cannot have Jesus as savior unless you are willing to lay down your life and have Him as Lord.

What do you think the previous paragraph to the above words were?

[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


- Question 1: Can someone who doesn't do the will of the Father enter heaven?
- If you answer "Yes" to the above question, then re-read verse 21, and answer question 1 again. Repeat as often as necessary.

What do you think the previous paragraph to these above words were?

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by their fruits you will know them.


- the build up to these very profound words (namely doing the will of the Father) is a stern warning to beware of false prophets.
- the placement of these verses is telling. Because we see the following in the church today. False prophets (sheeps clothing / calling themselves Christian brothers) who tell the rest that doing the will of God is not necessary and won't affect their salvation --- whereas it is clear from verse 21 and verse 27 that it clearly does.
- we see this spirit of the antichrist (in doctrine) already here.


To believe is to do. To believe is to obey.

Hebrews 3
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? [SUP]19 [/SUP]So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

- so you see, belief and obedience is totally and inseparably interlinked.
- two sides of the same coin.

James 1
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

- self explanatory

good post here bro

"be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, so deceiving yourselves" really is repeated in many different ways through the bible. from the Garden, to cain, to abraham to noah to the Law and the prophets to Jesus, to the apostles. in nearly every book is that principle expressed.

Noah Like us is saved by Grace, through Faith.

genesis 6:8 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD."

the Lord then tells Him because of Grace what is coming upon the earth, noah Hears His word and obeys the instructions and is saved

v13-14 "And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. 14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark,..... gives Him all the detailed instructions and v22 "Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he."

hebrews 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."

He was a doer of the word

 

[Grace777x70]

This should help to know the difference between"sin" - the noun used in Romans 6:14 "sin shall not have dominion over you" and "sinning" the verb which is the action of sinning.

In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".

Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and ship-wreck their faith.

This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.

We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do and not including things like outbursts of anger, malice, slandering others in the body of Christ, causing strife and divisions..etc.

Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.

There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life. Sin the noun has been guaranteed in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of thelaw of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power,e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.


The set free from sin (the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.

The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13

As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )

 

[Grace777x70]

believe that "sin" - the noun - not having dominion over us ( Rom. 6:14 ) is referring to the sin that is in the flesh not having dominion because we are in the spirit in Christ and not in the flesh.

I look at "sinning" ( the action ) as a response to the deceitfulness of sin - the noun ( that which is still in our flesh ) if we yield to the lie that the sin in our flesh is saying to us. Kind of like cause and effect - that is if we believe the lie of sin that speaks to us.

I too believe that the more we get a revelation that we are not in the flesh but really in the spirit because the real us is in Christ - the new creation - then "the influence" of sin loses it's power because of walking by the Spirit which is all based on the grace of Christ alone.

We are still responsible with what we do with our bodies but it is in the growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ that we are transformed by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

It's the influence of sin in our flesh that deceives us into doing the action of sinning. That is what I see in "sin shall not have dominion over us".

Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Galatians 5:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

The flesh ( which are the ways and old habits of getting things from the world instead of through faith in Christ ) and the law/principle of sin ( Romans 7:23 ) work together in cohoots.

They know what works on us individually. For example: If in the past we are trying in our own fleshly ways to get love by having sex with others. Then the power of sin will inflame that desire in us to be with other people.

If we have a problem with pride - then the power of sin will use that to influence us to think that we are the beginning and end of all things... If we think lowly of ourselves then the power of sin will use that to say we are worthless.

Each of us have our own unique fleshly ways of trying to find life from the world's belief system instead of through Christ's life that is in us. This brings death but walking by the spirit brings life and peace through the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work alone.

Grace reigns through righteousness. Romans 5:21 When we receive the "gift of righteousness" which is Christ's righteousness alone by grace through faith. Rom. 5:17

 

[followjesus]

or ^^^^ Just believe The Word of God

 

[followjesus]

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him(all the saints get the crown of life).
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren(get rid of your sin,for sin affects your relationship with God).

1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil(you hold unto sin when claiming Christ,you are of the devil until you repent of it,for that is how the children of God,and the children of the devil are separated,by if they do not sin,or sin): whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins( a person that holds unto sin is in error,and their soul is in a position of death,and they need to be converted).

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(material,and monetary): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
1Pe 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Confessing Christ still means abstain from sin,for if you hold unto sin it is unto death.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

If people hold unto sin they do not have the knowledge of God.

Pro 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

People who say we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God,does not fear the LORD,for that is to hate sin,and arrogance.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Without love we are nothing,and love is the fulfilling of the law,so we must have love.

1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

But love does not think an evil thought,and does not rejoice in inquity,and hates sin.

1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully(do not hold unto sin,but get rid of it) after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Some say that we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God,but I take this to a higher court,the court of God that says otherwise.

They can say we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God,but I am not buying it.

And the Bible still says God wants all people to be saved,repent,and come to the truth,and the Spirit and bride,say,Come,and anybody can have that salvation.

But still they will say,we are chosen,and cannot fall.

its the blind leading the blind, that tends to happen when someone is explaining why Gods word is destructive if it calls for repentance or makes known a persons sin. its certainly destructive to the sinful nature if a person Believes the word, i think it honestly comes to whether were a lover of pleasure or God. and God Has certainly done more than enough to win our hearts from sin, back to Him through Jesus.

 

[Skinski7]

So, in your religion - you have just condemned yourself with your "interpretation" of 1 John 3:9

It says that the one born of God can NOT sin - and you have admitted that you do still sin from time to time - so in your religion - you are of the devil and not born of God. Your own religion has condemned you as many have told you before.

Your Gnostic philosophical system warps your perception of reality. That is why you simply cannot understand the most simple of things.

1John 3:9 means exactly what it says.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin, for the seed of God remains within, thus making sin impossible due to being born of God.

The word "commit" in the Greek is poieō and it means "produce."

If one is abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ (Rom 8:2) with the love of God shed abroad in the heart (Rom 5:5) it is impossible to engage in evil because love is the antidote for evil.

Love by its very nature does not work ill.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

In order to sin one has to separate themselves from God which is why Jude calls for people to "keep themselves in the love of God."

Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

You cannot understand such simply truths because your mind has been enveloped by Gnostic philosophy and thus the light that you perceive is actually great darkness.

Jesus can set you free though if you will but come to Him with a true heart and yield. You'll need to stop arguing in favour of being able to engage in wickedness and be "in Christ" at the same time. That very concept you believe of being able to engage in wickedness and be "in Christ" is the very opposite of the words of John which you just quoted.

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

You just don't believe what the Bible plainly states.

If you are not DOING righteousness then you are not righteous. There is no "righteousness cloak" like you believe. There is no "finished work" which cloaks your sin. If you are committing sin you are of the devil just as the Bible plainly states.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

The sin has to stop and it stops in repentance when you forsake your rebellion and yield wholeheartedly to God. God will then raise you up to newness of life in which you are quickened by the Spirit. You will then have the power to walk in complete victory.

Salvation is complete victory, not a cloak for defeat.

 

[Grace777x70]

The understanding of the circumcision of Christ where the new creation in Christ is "cut away" from the flesh is a life changing revelation of the wonderful awesome work that our Lord did when we died with Him on the cross and rose again to being a new creation - joined as one spirit with Him for eternity - sealed by the Holy Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead.

The truth is that Jesus has already saved us from our sins. If we don't know that - then a lot of the good news of what Jesus did will be a blurr to us.

We will end up searching for sin in our lives constantly and I have news for all of us. There will be sin in our flesh until we get rid of theses bodies.

We will be constantly trying to clean up the flesh but the only way to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh is by the Spirit in us.

That is why the circumcision of Christ is imperative to understand in order to grow up in Christ.

Abraham's circumcision was a shadow of being circumcised in Christ now from our flesh.

We are cut away from the flesh and our inner man of the new creation - our new spirit created in righteousness and holiness in Christ.


What do we do with the old flesh that is cut away? We throw it out and you can not have it put back on as it is dead. The same goes for our spiritual circumcision in which our flesh is cut away from our inner man - the spirit where Christ dwells.

We are completely sealed by the Holy Spirit within our spirit in our circumcision in Christ.

Understanding spiritual circumcision is important to get a revelation of the new creation in Christ now and to the understanding that our new hearts are pure now because our heart and Christ are one spirit - created in righteousness and holiness - by the incorruptible seed of God which abides forever.

When scriptures talk about the circumcision ( cutting away from) of the heart and of the flesh - it is 2 sides of the same coin.

Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29[/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.


Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11[/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands,in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

 

[Grace777x70]

For now we have this treasure ( Christ Himself ) in an earthen vessel so that they excellency of the power may be seen to be of God and not ourselves.

Christ is the treasure - get our true identity right and the good things of the treasure of Christ that is in our hearts will come forth.

Walk by the spirit and we ill not fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.

Getting our minds renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us is paramount IMO in order to walk out His life that is in our new hearts and through us to manifest His love and grace to others that need to know Him for who He truly is.

We are not a "new evolution" - we are a new creation.

"Awake to righteousness" and sin not. Awake means "to wake up to be who you already are, to sober up". You are the righteousness of God in Christ.

We are not trying to create this new creation - it is of God who has already been created us in Christ - but we do grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This growing in Christ is actually the emerging new man being manifested outwardly as our minds become renewed to the truth of our real identity in Christ.

Beholding the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror is how the Holy Spirit transforms us to reflect outwardly in our behavior who we already are in Christ in our new hearts. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

My goodness how our lives change when we know this truth - and we know that the flesh is not us so we don't have to obey it.

The enemy uses the voice of the flesh to make it seem that it is the real us and so we must be unclean in our heart. It's a trick to deceive us. But we are growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and we are not ignorant of the enemie's schemes of deception.

 

[Skinski7]

believe that "sin" - the noun - not having dominion over us ( Rom. 6:14 ) is referring to the sin that is in the flesh not having dominion because we are in the spirit in Christ and not in the flesh.

I look at "sinning" ( the action ) as a response to the deceitfulness of sin - the noun ( that which is still in our flesh ) if we yield to the lie that the sin in our flesh is saying to us. Kind of like cause and effect - that is if we believe the lie of sin that speaks to us.

That is just Gnostic confusion.

Sin is a moral concept, not something that is present in "meat" (flesh).

When the Bible speaks of "flesh" it is speaking of natural desires or carnal desires. Sin is a result of yielding to temptation and thus DOING evil. James describes it like this...

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Temptation/Drawing Away by Lust -------------------------> Enticement --------------------------> Lust conceives and sin brought forth.

Sin is not a substance lurking in human meat. Fornication, adultery, murder, theft, etc. does not lurk in human meat. Those are moral actions, whether conducted in the mind or body. An sinner is a sinner because they give themselves over to the gratifying of the lusts of the flesh in defiance of moral uprightness.

Sin is a choice, not a substance of matter like you believe.

Your belief in sin being a substance of matter is rooted in Greek philosophy. It originated with Plato and then was later developed in many of the philosophical schools. The teaching was extant among the Gnostics around the time John wrote his first epistle. The philosophy infiltrated Christianity through the prolific influence of Augustine of Hippo.

You are just regurgitating ancient Greek philosophy which has been mixed with some Christian terminology.

You really ought to be willing to question the fundamentals of what you believe and where it actually came from. When the Bible plainly states that "he who sins is of the devil" you ought to believe it at face value and not try and explain it away because it contradicts your gnosticism.

 

[Skinski7]

Cut and Pasted Blather from http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/141851-perfect-gods-eyes.html#post2797660

I think I'll just call you "Cut'n'Paste24/7 from now on.

You are obviously must find direct discussion to be very challenging. Do you really believe that resorting to your text files for canned responses does you any service?

It is actually a very lazy approach.