What A Sovereign God Cannot Do....

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
notmyown

notmyown

Senior Member
#181
May 26, 2016
4,820
1,195
113
#181
i'll try the post not my words method. i love post.
 
Denadii

Denadii

Banned
#184
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#184
kaylagrl said:
One of the most common expressions one hears in Christian circles, especially for reassurance when things aren't going well, is that "God is in control, He's still on the throne." Christians comfort themselves with these words—but what do they mean? Was God not "in control" when Satan rebelled and when Adam and Eve disobeyed, but now He is? Does God's being in control mean that all the rape, murder, war and multiplied evil is exactly what He planned and desires?

Christ asks us to pray, "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" (Mt. 6:10). Why that prayer if we are already in God's kingdom with Satan bound, as John Calvin taught and Reconstructionists claim today? Could a world of rampant evil really be what God wills? Surely not!

"Wait a minute!" someone counters. "Are you suggesting that our omnipotent God is unable to effect His will upon earth? What heresy is this! Paul clearly says that God 'worketh all things after the counsel of his own will' (Eph:1:11
)."

Yes. But the Bible itself contains many examples of men defying God's will and disobeying Him. God laments, "I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me" (Isa:1:2
). The sacrifices they offer Him and their evil lives are obviously not according to His will. We are told that "the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected for themselves the counsel of God" (Lk 7:30). Christ's statement in Matthew:7:21
 shows clearly that everyone doesn't always do God's will. That is implied also in Isaiah:65:12
; 1 Thessalonians:5:17-19
; Hebrews:10:36
; 1 Peter:2:15
; 1 John:2:17
 and many other scriptures. In fact, Ephesians:1:11
 doesn't say that everything that happens is according to God's will, but according to "the counsel" of His will. Clearly the counsel of God's will has given man freedom to disobey Him. There is no other explanation for sin.

Yet in his zeal to protect God's sovereignty from any challenge, A. W. Pink argues earnestly, "God fore-ordains everything which comes to pass....God initiates all things, regulates all things...." 1 Edwin H. Palmer agrees: "God is in back of everything. He decides and causes all things to happen that do happen....He has foreordained everything 'after the counsel of his will' (Eph:1:11
): the moving of a finger...the mistake of a typist—even sin." 2

Right here we confront a vital distinction. It is one thing for God, in His sovereignty and without diminishing that sovereignty, to give man the power to rebel against Him. This would open the door for sin as solely man's responsibility by a free choice. It is something entirely different for God to control everything to such an extent that He must effectively cause man to sin.

It is a fallacy to imagine that for God to be in control of His universe He must therefore foreordain and initiate everything. Thus He causes sin, then punishes the sinner. To justify this view, it is argued that "God is under no obligation to extend His grace to those whom He predestines to eternal judgment." In fact, however, obligation has no relationship to grace.

It actually diminishes God's sovereignty to suggest that He cannot use to His own purposes what He doesn't foreordain and originate. There is neither logical nor biblical reason why a sovereign God by His own sovereign design could not allow creatures made in His image the freedom of genuine moral choice. And there are compelling reasons why He would do so.

Many an atheist (or sincere seeker who is troubled by evil and suffering) throws in our faces, "You claim your God is all-powerful. Then why doesn't He stop evil and suffering? If He could and doesn't, He's a monster; if He can't, then He isn't all-powerful!" The atheist thinks he has us cornered.

The answer involves certain things which God cannot do.

But God is infinite in power, so there must be nothing He can't do! Really? The very fact that He is infinite in power means He cannot fail. There is much else which finite beings do all the time but which the infinite, absolutely sovereign God cannot do because He is God: lie, cheat, steal, sin, be mistaken, etc. In fact, much else that God cannot do is vital for us to understand in meeting challenges from skeptics.

Tragically, there are many sincere questions which most Christians can't answer. Few parents have taken the time to think through the many intellectual and theological challenges their children increasingly face, challenges for which today's youth find no answers from so many pulpits and Sunday-school lessons. As a result, growing numbers of those raised in evangelical homes and churches are abandoning the "faith" they never adequately understood.

Is sovereignty and power the cure-all? Many Christians superficially think so. Yet there is much for which sovereignty and power are irrelevant. God acts not only sovereignly, but in love, grace, mercy, kindness, justice and truth. His sovereignty is exercised only in perfect harmony with all of His other attributes.

There is much that God cannot do, not in spite of who He is, but because of who He is. Even Augustine, described as the first of the early so-called Church Fathers who "taught the absolute sovereignty of God," 3 declared, "Wherefore, He cannot do some things for the very reason that He is omnipotent." 4

Because of His absolute holiness, it is impossible for God to do evil, to cause others to do evil or even to entice anyone into evil: "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted, neither tempteth he any man..." (James:1:13-14
). But what about the many places in Scripture where it says God tempted someone or was tempted? For example, "God did tempt Abraham" (Gen:22:1
). The Hebrew word there and throughout the Old Testament is nacah, which means to test or prove, as in assaying the purity of a metal. It has nothing to do with tempting to sin. God was testing Abraham's faith and obedience.

If God cannot be tempted, why is Israel warned, "Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God" (Deut 6:16)? We are even told that at Massah, in demanding water, "they tempted the Lord, saying, Is the LORD among us or not?" (Ex 17:7). Later they "tempted God in their heart by asking meat for their lust... they said, Can God furnish a table in the wilderness? Yea...they provoked the most high" (Ps:78:18
, 56, 41).

God was not being tempted to do evil, He was being provoked, thus His patience was being tested. Instead of waiting upon Him obediently to meet their needs, His people were demanding that He use His power to give them what they wanted to satisfy their lusts. Their "temptation" of God was a blasphemous challenge forcing Him either to give in to their desire or to punish them for rebellion.

When Jesus was "tempted of the devil" to cast himself from the pinnacle of the temple to prove the promise that angels would bear Him up in their hands, He quoted, "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God" (Mat:4:1-11
). In other words, to put ourselves deliberately in a place where God must act to protect us is tempting Him.

James goes on to say, "but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed." Temptation to evil does not come from without but from within. The man who could not possibly be "tempted" to be dishonest in business may succumb to the temptation to commit adultery and thus be dishonest with his wife. It is said that "every man has his price."

God was not tempting Adam and Eve to sin when He told them not to eat of a particular tree. Eve was tempted by her own lust and selfish desire. Even in innocence man could be selfish and disobedient. We see this in young infants who as yet presumably don't know the difference between right and wrong.
Click to expand...
If I may I'll add....If God is in control, why wars, famines, disease, and all the other junk happening in the Earth..Does God kill people by the hundreds to teach them something? Can't he control Satan and his minions? If God is in control, why is He so wimpy about it?

The fact is...God is NOT in control in the Earth...He gave that job to us "Christians"
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#186
#186
preacher4truth said:
Now, maybe, just maybe, some of you all will end the campaign to attack those with which KG is attacking and disagreeing with, and supporting the sowing of discord?

I call on KG to fess up and own her false accusation where she stated I don't believe in free grace. She also owes one to SovereignGrace as well for her false accusations. And attacks.

So two things; end the campaign of attack on those who you don't agree with, and the supporting one another in the endeavor by deriding, falsely accusing as well. And, own the false accusations, apologize and recant them. You know, actually be Christian.
Click to expand...
Ya,ok enough. SG once again,big boy and can defend himself. I opened a thread for Calvinism and when I pointed out things I couldn't understand Lynn said I wasn't listening and then said I was just plain lied. Now you're on about the same thing. I have nothing to fess up about. My intent on that thread I made clear. Now this thread is about free grace.So comment on that and knock off the insults.You're getting nowhere and you're looking like a child taking a tantrum.

Now,free grace is the subject. What do you believe,one more time.Make it dead clear,what do you believe about free grace. If we are using different definitions then Im not falsely accusing you.Here is my definition of free grace,one more time.


I believe Christ died for all.I believe all can come to Him when drawn by the Holy Spirit. I do not believe a select few will be saved,I do not believe people are elected before they come to earth.I do not believe God made some for destruction and some to be elected.I believe man has free will to accept or reject the drawing of the Holy Spirit. If I go to hell its because I have walked away from Gods grace,not because I wasn't elected and made for destruction. My choice to sin will send me to hell if I choose to walk away from Gods free gift.

Now,what do you define free grace as.If you will discuss with me I am willing to talk.If you wish to insult I'll ignore. But if you believe you are right then I would think you'd be willing to discuss it calmly.The choice is yours,it doesn't bother me either way.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#189
#189
SovereignGrace said:
They received the promised land in Joshua's day. So, their possessing it was fulfilled.

Now, where's the milk and honey? :D :) ;)
Click to expand...

Milk and honey? Sounds kinda sticky. Im waiting on preacher to see if we're getting back into the topic of free grace.Kind of gone down a rabbit trail here. Lets put a pin in this for a moment.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#191
#191
SovereignGrace said:
Now, what promises do you see that need to be fulfilled? I am not that deep in this, so you may get a bunch of 'I don't know' and have to study and get back with you.
Click to expand...

Actually I see MattforJesus just replied. That would be my belief also.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#192
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
#192
kaylagrl said:
Milk and honey? Sounds kinda sticky. Im waiting on preacher to see if we're getting back into the topic of free grace.Kind of gone down a rabbit trail here. Lets put a pin in this for a moment.
Click to expand...
The promised land is supposed to flow with milk and honey. Did they ever find it? Could the promised land be New Jerusalem that comes down?
 
Last edited:
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#195
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
#195
Desertsrose said:

And Jeremiah also says that God makes a New Covenant with Israel. It's not nice to fool God's chosen child. :)
Click to expand...
And that New Covenant belongs to believing Gentiles, too. You and I are part of that covenant, too.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#196
#196
SovereignGrace said:
The promised land is supposed to flow with milk and hiney. Did they ever find it? Could the promised land be New Jerusalem that comes down?
Click to expand...
Two separate things.The land belonging to the Jews and heaven. They are not the same thing.
 
Denadii

Denadii

Banned
#197
May 13, 2017
2,359
27
0
#197
SovereignGrace said:
God is in charge of those who choose to come to Him. He can't draw those who refuse. Youse nose?
Click to expand...
Da nose knows....LOL Consider your sources? That scripture does not say that God is in control......Does it?

I agree that God is sovereign in all creation but He still gave us rule on the Earth
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#199
#199
Denadii said:
If I may I'll add....If God is in control, why wars, famines, disease, and all the other junk happening in the Earth..Does God kill people by the hundreds to teach them something? Can't he control Satan and his minions? If God is in control, why is He so wimpy about it?

The fact is...God is NOT in control in the Earth...He gave that job to us "Christians"
Click to expand...
I can point to one instance where God had something bad happen for the good of some people.

Nazi Germany at the end of the 1930's. One family -- a mom, a dad, and two "elderly" daughters. Believers! Full-out believers already drawn by God. They were the Ten Boom family.

They put their actions with their mouths, and brought home some Jews to protect them from the Nazis. Brave of them, huh? They really had to trust God for that one, and they did.

And a while later they got caught and were sent to a concentration camp along with the Jews. The mother, father, and sister died. God's mercy, because living through a concentration camp isn't easy either. Corrie survived and was able to tell the story of what God had done. And she did tell.

One night she found herself on a stage ready to give her testimony with others. And one of the others was someone she recognized. A soldier in that concentration camp -- charge with massive genocide. God wasn't done working on Corrie and, man, he works hard on all of his kids.

But, yeah, even in war, even in the most horrible mankind can conceive of, (and the Nazis weren't the worst by a long shot), God is sovereign and works all out for the good of his people and glory for himself.

I will not make excuses for God, because he needs no excuse. He has had some really tough things to do for me and my husband too, but in the long run it is always for our good and his glory! Always! Always always!
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#200
#200
Denadii said:
Da nose knows....LOL Consider your sources? That scripture does not say that God is in control......Does it?

I agree that God is sovereign in all creation but He still gave us rule on the Earth
Click to expand...
Heads up -- sovereign means that person IS in supreme control. lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.