What A Sovereign God Cannot Do....

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UnderGrace

Guest
#441
#441
Then they said to him, “What must we do, to do the works of God? Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

This renders a clearer understanding

Jesus replied, "This is the deed God requires--to believe in the one whom he sent."

So God does not do the work he requires us to do the work he requires is for us to believe. God does not force us to believe and neither is He going to believe on our behalf.

Even Paul came to belief, while there was a mighty intervention on God's part the belief was still his.




SovereignGrace said:
Someone asked Jesus how could they do the works of God, to which Jesus replied, 'This is the work of God, that you believe in the One He sent.' So, to truly believe in the Christ is solely by the power of God.
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UnderGrace

Guest
#442
#442
If you make a person's belief from God, then you make the elect the same elect that Calvinism teaches, the elect are those that are given faith and belief. I am understanding correctly?

kaylagrl said:
Dont think I disagree...
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SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#443
Dec 28, 2016
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#443
UnderGrace said:
Then they said to him, “What must we do, to do the works of God? Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

This renders a clearer understanding

Jesus replied, "This is the deed God requires--to believe in the one whom he sent."

So God does not do the work he requires us to do the work he requires is for us to believe. God does not force us to believe and neither is He going to believe on our behalf.

Even Paul came to belief, while there was a mighty intervention on God's part the belief was still his.
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Ppl, apart from God, are blind, deaf, having characteristics of a dead corpse. Those who are spiritually dead can't believe. God quickens whoever He will, and they exercise faith and repentance. Both being gifts of God.

That is why its the 'work of God', that you believe in the One He sent.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#444
#444
UnderGrace said:
If you make a person's belief from God, then you make the elect the same elect that Calvinism teaches, the elect are those that are given faith and belief. I am understanding correctly?
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Nope I believe in free will, the elect are those who are drawn by the Holy Spirit and believe on the Lord.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#446
#446
Everyone is drawn by the Holy Spirit but not all will believe
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

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#447
Dec 28, 2016
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#447
UnderGrace said:
Everyone is drawn by the Holy Spirit but not all will believe
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Wrong Sissy. Those who hear and learn of the Father are drawn. Ppl are drawn by the word being proclaimed by the gospel of the Christ.

God chose the foolishness of preaching(verbal words) to save those who believe.[1 Cor. 1:21]

The gospel is the power of God[see John 6:29,30] to save believers, the Jews first and also the Greeks.[Romans 1:16]

Once you heard(verbal words) the gospel of YOUR(personal message of what the Christ did for you) and after you believed, then are you sealed with the Spirit.

Not everyone has heard the gospel. Not everyone will be drawn.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#448
#448
Romans 1:19
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#450
Dec 28, 2016
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#450
UnderGrace said:
Romans 1:19
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Sissy, that is an anti-great commission, anti-sola-scriptura, anti-missions stance. We are saved by faith. Faith comes from hearing the message concerning the Christ, not by discerning the sky, trees, sun, moon, stars, &c.

Ppl learn about the Christ and His gospel by proclamed words, not natural revelation Romans 1:19 speaks about.

In Acts 17, Paul goes to Athens and is appalled by this city running rampant with idolatry. Ppl never hearing about the Christ worship idols.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#451
Feb 21, 2012
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#451
SovereignGrace said:
Wrong Sissy. Those who hear and learn of the Father are drawn. Ppl are drawn by the word being proclaimed by the gospel of the Christ.

God chose the foolishness of preaching(verbal words) to save those who believe.[1 Cor. 1:21]
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Yes, note: to save those who believe NOT to save the elect.
The gospel is the power of God[see John 6:29,30] to save believers, the Jews first and also the Greeks.[Romans 1:16]
No one denies that hearing the word doesn't bring about faith (belief) - I say belief because you have to believe what you hear . . .
Once you heard(verbal words) the gospel of YOUR(personal message of what the Christ did for you) and after you believed, then are you sealed with the Spirit.
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yes, so true - AFTER you heard, AFTER you believed, you were sealed with the Spirit, i.e. born again
Not everyone has heard the gospel. Not everyone will be drawn.
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No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets 'And they shall all be taught of God.' Every man therefore that has heard, and has learned of the Father, comes to me. . . Everyone will hear but not all will believe what they hear . . . they will resist, they will reject, they will remain condemned.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#452
Aug 17, 2015
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#452
kaylagrl said:
Oh I accept all the Bible says, I just dont accept what you believe its says. Sorry.
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So you accept election, predestination, that God have a right to make somebody for destruction etc etc, right? Because IT IS IN THE BIBLE.

If you will respond "no, I dont", then sorry, you do not believe all what the Bible says, but you accept just some verses you like.
 
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trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#453
Aug 17, 2015
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#453
kaylagrl said:
Nope I believe in free will.
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"Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"
"Who is he, sir?" the man asked. "Tell me so that I may believe in him."
 (J 9:36)

So, tell me... what is the definition of the free will so we can also believe in it?
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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#454
Dec 28, 2016
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#454
UnderGrace said:
Everyone is drawn by the Holy Spirit but not all will believe
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Well, this is untrue. Faith is God's gift and enabling; Ephesians 1:19; Romans 12:3; Philippians 1:29; Acts 3:16.

Since it is God's gift it would be incorrect to say that the Spirit draws everyone and that then He does not gift them with faith. The fact is not all are drawn - biblical drawing ensures salvation will take place, as God only draws them for the purpose and end that they will be saved.
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#455
May 17, 2013
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#455
preacher4truth said:
Well, this is untrue. Faith is God's gift and enabling; Ephesians 1:19; Romans 12:3; Philippians 1:29; Acts 3:16.

Since it is God's gift it would be incorrect to say that the Spirit draws everyone and that then He does not gift them with faith. The fact is not all are drawn - biblical drawing ensures salvation will take place, as God only draws them for the purpose and end that they will be saved.
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Not according to John 1 and Romans 11.

Ro 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

All men are equal in Gods sight. God does not love one sinner over another.

Men choose not to be saved.

3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
notmyown

notmyown

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#456
May 26, 2016
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#456
UnderGrace said:
Everyone is drawn by the Holy Spirit but not all will believe
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i mean.... just look at it! :)

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

ALL who are drawn, given, come to Christ. ALL who are given and drawn are saved!
it's like the offer you can't refuse. because you have a new heart and don't want to refuse. :D
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#457
#457
trofimus said:
So you accept election, predestination, that God have a right to make somebody for destruction etc etc, right? Because IT IS IN THE BIBLE.

If you will respond "no, I dont", then sorry, you do not believe all what the Bible says, but you accept just some verses you like.
Click to expand...

Yes,I believe it,just not the way you do.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#458
May 17, 2013
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#458
notmyown said:
i mean.... just look at it! :)

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

ALL who are drawn, given, come to Christ. ALL who are given and drawn are saved!
it's like the offer you can't refuse. because you have a new heart and don't want to refuse. :D
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Your proof text is little more than a pretext if you do not view it in context.

Jesus came to the elect and yet they rejected Him. Those who walked with Him turned back when He told them of the cross that He was headed to on Calvary.

Does God love one sinner more than another sinner?

Is a silver coin that has been lost of lesser value than the silver coin that has been place in the bag? Is the silver coin that has become tarnished of lesser value than the bright shiny coin?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#459
#459
Love this line....

Your proof text is little more than a pretext if you do not view it in context.
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The Father’s drawing of John 6:44 is not speaking of humanity in general, or of a special class of the Calvinistically elect, but of the Father’s drawing of the already covenant believers and sheep the Jews, to His Son, which is not to be confused with the Son’s later post-Calvary drawing of all men in general. (John 12:32)

Yup it is all about the context and the dialogue Jesus is having.

notuptome said:
Your proof text is little more than a pretext if you do not view it in context.

Jesus came to the elect and yet they rejected Him. Those who walked with Him turned back when He told them of the cross that He was headed to on Calvary.

Does God love one sinner more than another sinner?

Is a silver coin that has been lost of lesser value than the silver coin that has been place in the bag? Is the silver coin that has become tarnished of lesser value than the bright shiny coin?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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