Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
W

willybob

Guest
its not by vain religious works such as church bazaars, spaghetti diners, promise keeper rallies, water baptisms, carnal sacraments of crackers and wine ceremonies, tithes, earthly sabbath days, wearing and upholding pagan crosses, driving the Sunday school bus, singing in the choir, etc. etc.. These types of things is what Isiah was speaking of as filthy rags..
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
1 Peter 3

[SUP]19 [/SUP]and in his spiritual existence he went and preached to the imprisoned spirits. [SUP]20 [/SUP]These were the spirits of those who had not obeyed God when he waited patiently during the days that Noah was building his boat.
Which translation is this lol? Jesus went and proclaimed His triumph to the spirits in prison (the angels who sinned) who disobeyed long ago.
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
Which translation is this lol? Jesus went and proclaimed His triumph to the spirits in prison (the angels who sinned) who disobeyed long ago.
[SUP]all look the same to me [/SUP][h=1]1 Peter 3[/h]esv
[SUP][SUP]9 [/SUP]in which[SUP][c][/SUP] he went and proclaimed[SUP][d][/SUP] to the spirits in prison, 20 [/SUP]who once were disobedient, when the great patience of God was waiting in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons [Noah’s family], were brought safely through the water.

[SUP]kjv

19 [/SUP]By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


[SUP]0 [/SUP]because[SUP][e][/SUP] they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

n e t
[SUP]19 [/SUP]In it he went and preached to the spirits in prison, [SUP]20 [/SUP]after they were disobedient long ago when God patiently waited in the days of Noah as an ark was being constructed. In the ark a few, that is eight souls, were delivered through water.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
A wise man once said, "He who slings mud, loses ground". You may not be holy, but you certainly have your share of holes.:rolleyes:
And you don't sling mud every chance you get? Something about a beam in your own eye comes to mind hah
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Are you saved or hoping to be saved?
This has been covered...he has the same hope of one who buys a lottery ticket...hoping to win.....not realizing the bible's version of hope is a confident expectation of something guaranteed......John said we can KNOW WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE....not hope we have eternal life!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
its not by vain religious works such as church bazaars, spaghetti diners, promise keeper rallies, water baptisms, carnal sacraments of crackers and wine ceremonies, tithes, earthly sabbath days, wearing and upholding pagan crosses, driving the Sunday school bus, singing in the choir, etc. etc.. These types of things is what Isiah was speaking of as filthy rags..
Ummmmm pretty sure they had none of those things circe 720 B.C. and the words he used was ALL OUR RIGHTEOUSNESSESS......LOOK SPONGEBOB......works do not save, keep saved or help maintain salvation.....faith saves and then JESUS DOES THE WORK THRU US AS A LIVING SACRIFICE.......we ENTER INTO HIS REST WHEN WE CEASE FROM OUR OWN LABOR!
 
Last edited:

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
Ummmmm pretty sure they had none of those things circe 720 B.C. and the words he used was ALL OUR RIGHTEOUSNESSESS......LOOK SPONGEBOB......works do not save, keep saved or help maintain salvation.....faith saves and then JESUS DOES THE WORK THRU US AS A LIVING SACRIFICE.......we ENTER INTO HIS REST WHEN WE CEASE FROM OUR OWN LABOR!
I don't see the portion (in red) above anywhere in the bible stated in the way that you state it.

Here is what the word says:

Romans 12v1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.

Ephesians 2v10 [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Philippians 2v13 [SUP]13 [/SUP]for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

What this means is that the Holy Spirit leads us. The doing part is not Him. It's us. We respond to the Lord's leading. It's our works. And we are judged accordingly by these works. And if the Holy Spirit leads, will you obey?

Look at Noah:

God told him to build. Noah believed God. Noah Obeyed God. Noah Built an Ark - all action. The "first action hero".
 
Last edited:
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I don't see the portion (in red) above anywhere in the bible stated in the way that you state it.

Here is what the word says:

Romans 12v1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.

Ephesians 2v10 [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Philippians 2v13 [SUP]13 [/SUP]for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

What this means is that the Holy Spirit leads us. The doing part is not Him. It's us. We respond to the Lord's leading. It's our works. And we are judged accordingly by these works. And if the Holy Spirit leads, will you obey?

Look at Noah:

God told him to build. Noah believed God. Noah Obeyed God. Noah Built an Ark - all action. The "first action hero".
Philippians 2:13..................It is Christ who does the work through us....we surrender our will to His will....my statement is good...regardless of what you believe....

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me
 
Last edited:
L

limey410

Guest
Please tell me what is in God's mind and heart?
Is it we should walk righteously and in love and holiness or in sin?

If it is in sin, where does it say this and which sins can we compromise on?

Now John talks about praying for forgiveness for those brothers and sisters who
sin but not unto death, and the Lord will forgive them.

If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.
1 John 5:16

This implies yes we will sin, but we also need prayer and intercession about this.
Sanctification is a process of transformation and changing ones heart. It is obvious this
is not an overnight thing, but very much a journey, that is embedded and complex in our lives.

But if we cannot agree the goals and the biblical method of getting there, how can we agree
we know the King equally.

Now if in reality some feel they break fellowship with other believers on secondary issues, it is
their loss, and we are able to keep an open door for our weaker brethren. If it becomes abusive
though, such sinful behaviour has to be rebuked and if not repented of, expelled from the fellowship.
But I am at present just appealing for the expression of love that should be present.
I really do not have a proper answer for your question, I can only be certain that it is love for us, we are the most special piece of His creation and we were designed for a relationship with Him.

Without that relationship we get in to all sorts of crazy messes. Sometimes with the relationship too, but not so much and once received that relationship is eternal, so I don't worry so much anymore.

God hates sin, and everything about it, and as a believer I hate sin too, but where we split is your belief that the sin fight is yours to handle, my belief is that it has already been handled, and now I can walk with Him and learn from Him, and grow with Him, outside of that battle, free from that battle.

Because after all, He died for that. My undeserved inheritance is Him, through Christ Jesus. That IS enough!!

My focus is truly on Him, not trying to duck punishment, or fearful of missing the mark. He is pleased with me because I decided to choose Him, and for that peace and rest I am eternally grateful.

I am righteousness, through Him. I am now a child of God, the one true King, and I can rest in that for real.

Not to pontificate, or boast about how much I am accomplishing, but pleased to tell whomever how much He has accomplished in me.

Peter, I AM a changed man, make no mistake of that, you knew me not before, and you know little of me now. The depths of that change are remarkable, and could NEVER have been accomplished before the King took me in His arms.

Who I was, and who I am now are two diametrically opposed human beings. But all I did was focus on my God, look to Him, embrace His love for me, and He changed me, piece by piece, bit by bit and now I can reflect Him more adequately into the world that desperately needs Him. Not outwardly but a true change of the heart of men.

There is no religious methodology or biblical application, or spiritual formula to that, only the true love of a good good Father that accepts me and fills a place in my heart that only He can.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
Philippians 2:13..................It is Christ who does the work through us....we surrender our will to His will....my statement is good...regardless of what you believe....
If it is Christ who does the work through us, then how can He judge our works? For then He judges Himself.

Your argument holds no water.

The Lord's work is the preparation of the saint. This is the leading of the Holy Spirit. This is the work God does in us. We align our will (decision) to that of what the Holy Spirit says. And our "action" is the result of acting on this. The passage is clear.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
If it is Christ who does the work through us, then how can He judge our works? For then He judges Himself.

Your argument holds no water.

The Lord's work is the preparation of the saint. This is the leading of the Holy Spirit. This is the work God does in us. We align our will (decision) to that of what the Holy Spirit says. And our "action" is the result of acting on this. The passage is clear.
Sure it holds water....think about what you said....it makes no sense....if we surrender our will and allow him to work through us our works are wrought in God and rewarded as a faithful servant....if we chose to serve self and deny the power of God our works are wood, hay and stubble....makes complete sense to one who acknowledges truth....once you get salvation right and quit trusting yourself and actually trust Jesus you will begin to see the truth!
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
If it is Christ who does the work through us, then how can He judge our works? For then He judges Himself.

Your argument holds no water.

The Lord's work is the preparation of the saint. This is the leading of the Holy Spirit. This is the work God does in us. We align our will (decision) to that of what the Holy Spirit says. And our "action" is the result of acting on this. The passage is clear.
Another example:

God's will is for us to abstain from fornication (GOD)
He gives us His Holy Spirit (GOD)
The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and righteousness (GOD)
We are free (choice) to choose the way of the Spirit, or the way of the flesh (US)
If we choose the Spirit, we heed the command, which is according to His will in the first place. (US)

On the day of judgement, the believer is held accountable for this choice. Because they either aligned to God's will, or rejected God's will.

Do you see how that aligns with Phil 2v13? Here it is again:

[SUP]13 [/SUP]for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Another example:

God's will is for us to abstain from fornication (GOD)
He gives us His Holy Spirit (GOD)
The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and righteousness (GOD)
We are free (choice) to choose the way of the Spirit, or the way of the flesh (US)
If we choose the Spirit, we heed the command, which is according to His will in the first place. (US)

On the day of judgement, the believer is held accountable for this choice. Because they either aligned to God's will, or rejected God's will.

Do you see how that aligns with Phil 2v13? Here it is again:

[SUP]13 [/SUP]for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
Post 10549 and 10552 ....God works in you and through you to fulfill his will and purpose...end of story!
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
Some people have an evangelical anaphylaxis event in their minds when they hear that the Holy Spirit does not "convict" the believer of sins because we have been taught differently.

The Holy Spirit convicts/convinces the believer of the righteousness that is in us which indirectly points to the "works of the flesh" that we need to repent of ( change our minds on how we view them ).

For example things like malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

His life that is in us because of righteousness causes the works of the flesh to drop off us as we "become" who we really are in Christ in our new man - the new creation. This is "walking by the spirit" which will stop the flesh from fulfilling "it's" desires.

The word " convict/reprove/convince/expose" in question has many meanings attached to it as well.

It is only used 1 time in KJV as "convict"....it is used more often with the word "to reprove/rebuke/convince/expose"...the word needs to be looked at in the "context" that it is used...

It is a revealing of things.....to the world the Holy Spirit reveals/convinces/expose their sin of unbelief in Jesus..

To the believer He reveals/convinces/expose that they are the righteousness of Christ because He went to the Father to stand as an Advocate.

John 16:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world ( unbelievers ) concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they ( unbelievers ) do not believe in Me;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you ( believers ) no longer see Me;

1 John 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

[SUP]2 [/SUP] and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.


Here are a few examples of the same exact word used in scripture...as one can clearly see....this word has many uses depending on the context.

1 Corinthians 14:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

Titus 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Matthew 18:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

John 8:46 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

So, we can clearly seen the Greek word translated once in the KJV as "convict" really means to expose, reveal, convince people of something.
 
Last edited:

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
Sure it holds water....think about what you said....it makes no sense....if we surrender our will and allow him to work through us our works are wrought in God and rewarded as a faithful servant....if we chose to serve self and deny the power of God our works are wood, hay and stubble....makes complete sense to one who acknowledges truth....once you get salvation right and quit trusting yourself and actually trust Jesus you will begin to see the truth!
As a parent, my "will" is for the safety of my children. (Love)
I give them instructions before crossing the street: Look left, Look right, see if its safe, then cross. (Law)
My kids, if they trust me (Love) they will obey me (Obedience).

They will be tested in life, by crossing many streets. If they align their "will" to my "will", they should remain safe. If they rebel, there is a risk of death. Cross enough times without looking and they are bound to get knocked down and killed.


Now----I as a parent will not be walking across the street every time they need to cross the street in their lives. They take the first steps. They are also accountable for their decisions. Whether they were obedient, or not.


A nice little analogy which I made up to describe the above principles....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
As a parent, my "will" is for the safety of my children. (Love)
I give them instructions before crossing the street: Look left, Look right, see if its safe, then cross. (Law)
My kids, if they trust me (Love) they will obey me (Obedience).

They will be tested in life, by crossing many streets. If they align their "will" to my "will", they should remain safe. If they rebel, there is a risk of death. Cross enough times without looking and they are bound to get knocked down and killed.


Now----I as a parent will not be walking across the street every time they need to cross the street in their lives. They take the first steps. They are also accountable for their decisions. Whether they were obedient, or not.


A nice little analogy which I made up to describe the above principles....
Yeah nice analogy that makes no comparable point...your not the indwelling Holy Spirt and or Jesus.....so....how can your humanistic comparison even come close to God dwelling in his children and working through them........answer....it cannot!
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
Yeah nice analogy that makes no comparable point...your not the indwelling Holy Spirt and or Jesus.....so....how can your humanistic comparison even come close to God dwelling in his children and working through them........answer....it cannot!
I don't need to. Scripture says it all already. :)

Post #10548
 
M

Mandrell

Guest
All y'all need to go back and study all y'all got it wrong y'all are lost and no not the true