Does Anyone Here Teach The Following?

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Nov 22, 2015
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#81
Scriptures are very clear:

There is no distinction between people when it comes to Christ's work on the cross and resurrection. The Lord gives all people the same opportunity to come to Him. He loves them all dearly.

Romans 10:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

[SUP]13 [/SUP] for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

God through the Lord Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind - especially of believers. Why? Because believers belief in Christ.

1 Timothy 4:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

Our loving Father and Lord no more send people to hell because they were "elected" for hell before they were born and they cannot come to Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

Everyone will chose to believe or refuse to believe in Christ and they will chose what happens to them. It is going to be a frightful thing to stand before the Lord in our own righteousness without Christ when we see Him for who He truly is.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
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#82
There is no problem other than that you disagree with the Bible on this point, and that is the only problem.

Some come to Biblical truth and then are called Calvinists. No man in the flesh seeks God - that is Biblical.
Yeah, and whosoever will let him come and take of the water of life freely is also Biblical...and if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me....and many many more scriptures....

Oh and I thought people who come to Biblical truth were called Christians....I thought we were supposed to be Christ like...but hey what do I know, right.
 
Apr 23, 2017
1,064
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#83
Scriptures are very clear:

There is no distinction between people when it comes to Christ's work on the cross and resurrection. The Lord gives all people the same opportunity to come to Him. He loves them all dearly.

Romans 10:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

[SUP]13 [/SUP] for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

God through the Lord Jesus Christ is the Savior of all mankind - especially of believers. Why? Because believers belief in Christ.

1 Timothy 4:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

Our loving Father and Lord no more send people to hell because they were "elected" for hell before they were born and they cannot come to Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

Everyone will chose to believe or refuse to believe in Christ and they will chose what happens to them. It is going to be a frightful thing to stand before the Lord in our own righteousness without Christ when we see Him for who He truly is.
calvinist will say amen to that......... the point you are missing is calvinists do not deny whosoever will come to me............. they are saying nobody "wills" unless God draws them first!!!!!!!!!!! like it says in john6!!!!!!!!!
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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#84
Sorry that what I've tried to state isn't clear to you I will try to be more clear.

There is no such thing as a good repenting person, we agree on that point.

If a person is seeking God out of a contrite heart and repentance, and is seeking God for forgiveness, that is reflective of an operation of God upon his or her soul. God will never reject this person in such a state, God causes this within man, and God will save the person.
Ok, but in such a case we are just saying that it is not from the seeking person but from God. Ie. the sentence "if a person is seeking God..." is misleading, because it is God in the person drawing the person to Him.

If somebody asks me without any definition (you just defined it, but theoretically) "Can God reject a person that was seeking Him?" then... yes, Jews, muslims, buddhists etc are sometimes seeking Him from the whole heart, if you understand what I mean.

It really needs a specific combination of being born again, true faith, seeking, mercy, wisdom, repentance and information (Gospel) to be effective.

So if you just ask (as you did in the OP) without any definition, there is a way I can answer "yes". If you define it more as you just did, my answer is "no".

To say that God needed to look at all possibilities and then decide on which one is best doesn't reflect His nature and perfection brother. What you are leaning toward is Molinism and Open Theism. Yes, these are finer points, but the two doctrines are erroneous and do not reflect the true Divine Nature of God. :)
I did not say that He needed to look and in some point of time to get the knowledge of the best one world. He is over time so it was in Him always. But our human language falls short in such descriptions, so you must bear with me a little :)

If you wish, I can rephrase it to "God was always knowing the best possible combination of all things, created them and leads them to the best end."

And it contains also some people ending in hell.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
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#85
Fair enough. Spend more time in the Word and prayer, you'll never regret it. Perhaps study out Wesley some more, there are many myths surrounding his person.
People need to spend more time studying out Jesus and his word...not Calvin, Wesley or any other man cause as far as I know they didn't die on a cross for anyone and don't have the final say.
 

Marano

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2011
398
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#86
Yes in a sense many do because of the whole predestination issue. Some believe that we were chosen before creation and in a sense yes were but not in salvation. God is a loving father and went to the extreme of extremes for us to have salvation, now does a loving father who would go that far sound like someone who would pre ordain some to heaven and some hell no matter what they did?
This is absurd, God would never reject someone whose heart is contrite towards Him, likewise He wouldn't accept anyone who isn't covered by the blood of Jesus Christ, if you read Romans 1 you will see man are inexcusable because creation shows God's eternal power and Godhead, so anyone going to hell is going to hell because of their own sin and they're responsible for it, on the other hand if you're saved you can't claim the same, you are saved by God's grace through faith, and that faith is not of ourselves so that no one should boast.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
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#87
Yeah, and whosoever will let him come and take of the water of life freely is also Biblical...and if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me....and many many more scriptures....

Oh and I thought people who come to Biblical truth were called Christians....I thought we were supposed to be Christ like...but hey what do I know, right.
If all men are drawn all are saved. Jesus says all that the Father gives to him are drawn by the Father. He says they will come to him and he will raise them up on the last day. You cause scripture to contradict itself. Jesus couldn't have meant all are drawn to him in the sense of literally all people who ever live. If that is what he means, he contradicted himself earlier in the same book or else you have to conclude universalism. It has to mean all types, both Jews and Gentiles. Grace was extended to the entire world (not all people, but people groups, not only Jews).

John 6
35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

41 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— 46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

Jesus is bound by his own words to raise up all that are drawn to him. All that are given to him will come to him. It's not an invitation. It's an irresistible drawing (the word used means to drag). Either Jesus was teaching universalism or not all are drawn.

Also, read the rest of the chapter you quoted:

When Jesus had said these things, he departed and hid himself from them. 37 Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him, 38 so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled:

“Lord, who has believed what he heard from us,
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”
39 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said,

40 “He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their heart,
lest they see with their eyes,
and understand with their heart, and turn,
and I would heal them.”

There is a theme all throughout the book of John. It begins like this:

John 1
9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Just because a sentence has the word all, it has to be defined by the rest of scripture.

John 3
3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

John 15
16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

This theme is continued in 1 John:

1 John 4
4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us.

And Jesus said this:

John 10
11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

This same theme can clearly be seen all throughout scripture. A good way to see it is to read the bible from cover to cover and not get hung up on single verses that support your presuppositions. Once you've done that a few times, context is made much more clear.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#88
You and I have a different definition of what troll means, apparently...

I've watched as you and your little tag team has ran around calling others names and pretending as though you are the only one's in the world who understands the Word of God.


Yet, you get so offended when someone doesn't agree with your little doctrine. Well you pretend like you're offended...I think you just like fake crying to try to stir up more drama ...lol
thanks, I see from less than one page of quotes what I thought, No use going any further.. There is a reason I have certain self proclaimed preachers on ignore.. This just goes to once again prove I made the right decision.


moving on...
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
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#89

Our loving Father and Lord no more send people to hell because they were "elected" for hell before they were born and they cannot come to Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.


More lies about reformed theology. We don't teach that anyone is elected to hell. Mankind collectively rebelled. We are born in sin. No one seeks after God. We choose hell and reject God. No one chooses God unless they have been gifted grace and been spiritually reborn. Fundamental biblical truth. It is us who rebels. It is God who saves.

Do you deny what Jesus taught?

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
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#90
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More lies about reformed theology. We don't teach that anyone is elected to hell. Mankind collectively rebelled. We are born in sin. No one seeks after God. We choose hell and reject God. No one chooses God unless they have been gifted grace and been spiritually reborn. Fundamental biblical truth. It is us who rebels. It is God who saves.

Do you deny what Jesus taught?

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Ppl

Have this false notion that they can choose betwixt heaven and hell. It's like they think we're on a road and come to a fork in it and then we choose which way to go. If that's true, then we were really neutral until we came to the proverbial 'fork in the road'. That's false. We were on the road headed for hell when God called us from it and placed us on the straight and narrow.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#91
Ppl

Have this false notion that they can choose betwixt heaven and hell. It's like they think we're on a road and come to a fork in it and then we choose which way to go. If that's true, then we were really neutral until we came to the proverbial 'fork in the road'. That's false. We were on the road headed for hell when God called us from it and placed us on the straight and narrow.
That's where it starts to resemble Pelagianism to me.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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#92
I can never understand the reasoning of people who get an idea and they are determined above everything else to prove that idea from the bible. I have been ready to change in a moment whenever I see which side has the greater scriptural evidence because I am not promoting myself I am promoting God. I do not understand the insane insistence that their idea be made to appear to be scriptural, what difference could it possibly make except to get the person in trouble with God at the judgment. Should not our goal be to be in God's truth rather then to promote our own agenda? I simply do not understand how a Christian living for God will insist that a particular idea, that does not have the scriptural backing, be promoted. That is placing self interest over God.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
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#93
If all men are drawn all are saved. Jesus says all that the Father gives to him are drawn by the Father. He says they will come to him and he will raise them up on the last day. You cause scripture to contradict itself. Jesus couldn't have meant all are drawn to him in the sense of literally all people who ever live. If that is what he means, he contradicted himself earlier in the same book or else you have to conclude universalism. It has to mean all types, both Jews and Gentiles. Grace was extended to the entire world (not all people, but people groups, not only Jews).

John 6
35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

41 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— 46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

Jesus is bound by his own words to raise up all that are drawn to him. All that are given to him will come to him. It's not an invitation. It's an irresistible drawing (the word used means to drag). Either Jesus was teaching universalism or not all are drawn.

Also, read the rest of the chapter you quoted:

When Jesus had said these things, he departed and hid himself from them. 37 Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him, 38 so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled:

“Lord, who has believed what he heard from us,
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”
39 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said,

40 “He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their heart,
lest they see with their eyes,
and understand with their heart, and turn,
and I would heal them.”

There is a theme all throughout the book of John. It begins like this:

John 1
9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Just because a sentence has the word all, it has to be defined by the rest of scripture.

John 3
3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

John 15
16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

This theme is continued in 1 John:

1 John 4
4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us.

And Jesus said this:

John 10
11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

This same theme can clearly be seen all throughout scripture. A good way to see it is to read the bible from cover to cover and not get hung up on single verses that support your presuppositions. Once you've done that a few times, context is made much more clear.
I am not saying that all men will be saved. Jesus himself said that if he be lifted up then he will draw all men unto him. Not that all men would be saved, but all men will have a chance because he sacrificed for all men not just a few. He took on the sins of the world not just a select few.

I do appreciate your post here. I can tell you spent a lot of time typing it. I haven't had a chance to read it all just yet because I am working right now but I will read it.

Anyhow, your post is a good example of how to reply to someone who has a different opinion than you.:)
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#94
I can never understand the reasoning of people who get an idea and they are determined above everything else to prove that idea from the bible. I have been ready to change in a moment whenever I see which side has the greater scriptural evidence because I am not promoting myself I am promoting God. I do not understand the insane insistence that their idea be made to appear to be scriptural, what difference could it possibly make except to get the person in trouble with God at the judgment. Should not our goal be to be in God's truth rather then to promote our own agenda? I simply do not understand how a Christian living for God will insist that a particular idea, that does not have the scriptural backing, be promoted. That is placing self interest over God.
I agree. But I think it is "needed" in some phase of the spiritual growth. We must find ourselves "somewhere" to identify what we believe.

But when we study more and more and see that the truth is deeper and deeper, its probably time to leave all names and titles behind and just see what reality we will get from all the verses we read and all the reality we see in the creation.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
#95
thanks, I see from less than one page of quotes what I thought, No use going any further.. There is a reason I have certain self proclaimed preachers on ignore.. This just goes to once again prove I made the right decision.


moving on...
Yeah, and I should probably follow your lead here and quit feeding in to it...lol
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#96
the elect humans and the hired hands, walk hand to hand, the disception of predestination of human election.

Break the chains and knock on the door,
 
Dec 3, 2016
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#97
If all men are drawn all are saved.
No, universalism is not true... I kniow lots of folks are embracing that satanic narrative but it's not taught in God's Word. (for those that may be thinking along these lines...)

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

And Jesus is the One Who said He would draw all men unto Himself.

So, if you say this is not true then we all have to decide who is lying... you or Jesus.

Jesus has already won that decision

You conveniently left John 12:32 out of your explanation... cherry picker


Do you deny what Jesus taught?
You ignore John 12:32, so obviously you do...

Here's a couple mo calvin's cult followers don't like to talk about... or have freaky stories as to why these are not saying what they say

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Clearly... it's the Lord's will that all be saved and clearly... He has paid for the salvation of all so it's not His fault when someone goes to hell and according to Jesus He is actually drawing all men unto Himself as shown in this scripture as well:

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
#98
LOL...as ya'll can tell I seriously didn't take a lot of time reading his post to me...Totally missed the part where he said I was making Jesus contradict himself by just quoting the Word...:p
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#99
"To actually teach that even if one has a contrite heart and seeks forgiveness it is not enough."

***

The above statement is not enough to "earn" forgiveness. You have to be washed clean by the blood of the Lamb.

Recognizing that God doesn't owe you anything.he doesn't have to forgive you.

You should be falling on your knees thanking Him for His mercy and grace,

If God decides to punish or chastens you, you should thank Him and seek to learn to Walk humbly and righteously before God.

Plus..what are they seeking forgiveness for? Being caught? Breaking rules? Or unbelief and lack of Faith in God?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
one thing ive learned in my time her is that no matter what one believes, it will be twisted by many who believe differently, what isnt said, is perceived often and then the accusations begin, which leads to argument and digression of behavior on every side of a discussion.

a person can say " Jesus talked an awful Lot about obedience" and a few comments later another is claiming "legalism amd self works for salvation youve fallen from grace"

on the other hand someone can say " were saved by the Grace of God" and another will begin " you need to repent your not saved obey the lord"

its more like a battlefield of opinion and insult at times in the bdf. I personally have never seen anyone attempt to teach something like in the op, unless its the occasional athiest that comes to antagonize christians. the Bible has alot to say about Hell, it doesnt have anything to say about God creating anyone to send them thier, it has much to say about God sending His Own Son to die on the cross, and teach us the truth, to keep us from that terrible place.

i think often the issue is someone doesnt agree so our minds somehow add what they arent really saying, in order to defend what our own thoughts or opinions are and it creates alot of contenetion that really isnt even there. i sometimes follow discussions, and it happens from both or all different sides to be honest.

ive never Heard alot of the things some claim another says or "teaches" to be honest with you, never seen alot of the " slander and malice" that some claim others have perpetrated on them. i think its a perception problem, and we should be very careful to actually see what the person is saying, before we see what isnt really there.
Yeah we all need reminders of this daily.