Does Anyone Here Teach The Following?
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We are born into sin due to mankind's fallen nature, being born of Adam we are born of the flesh, the flesh counts for nothing, is at war with God (being His enemy), we require being born again of the Spirit of God. God desires all to be saved, Christ draws all men to Him... so grace must have a resistible quality to it, due to the sin nature of man. Otherwise all would be saved. Even as a saved people, we undergo trials meant to burn away that which does not best serve God. I agree we are not saved due to any merit of our own. Yet still, we make a choice. We chose, however we connect the dots, however we became aware of God and His great love for us, we chose that over our own limited understanding, our pride of life, our rebellion against Him... and I agree, that we are without excuse to choose otherwise 
Who are the beloved?
3 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles
The church right? AKA the elect?
3 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles
The church right? AKA the elect?
Exactly... Are all born again of the Spirit?
God also desires to show his wrath:
What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
If he drew all men, all men would be saved by Christ's own admission so all can't mean all there. We have to take into account what he has already said leading up to this statement.
so grace must have a resistible quality to it, due to the sin nature of man. Otherwise all would be saved. Even as a saved people, we undergo trials meant to burn away that which does not best serve God. I agree we are not saved due to any merit of our own. Yet still, we make a choice. We chose, however we connect the dots, however we became aware of God and His great love for us, we chose that over our own limited understanding, our pride of life, our rebellion against Him... and I agree, that we are without excuse to choose otherwise
If God draws all men, how come not everyone who has ever lived since the crucifixion has been given a chance to hear the Gospel? Is that fair to them? Was it fair that God singled out an entire nation under the Old Covenant and wiped out others without giving them a chance?
Jesus said all who are drawn will be saved. All who are given to him will come to him. All can't mean all in that instance.
Also, how do you reconcile with this verse?
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
We find election all over scripture.
He chose is real .....Israel turned away and chose other Gods and broke his covenant. In Christ he has already chosen every one. For he is " the savior of all men, especially of those who believe" and" for God so loved the world that whosoever believe that in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life"
He draws men to Jesus through hearing his word. And where does faith come from.? Through hearing the word of God. Romans10:17.
Its why the gospel is to be preached in all the world, so that mankind has the choice to accept, or reject Jesus Christ. Some won't Believe, but God has offered the same to all men he doesn't play favorites whoever chooses to believe in the Lorrd Jesus shall be saved.
You have to deny a lot of other scripture to support this though. The gospel is preached to all the world for the elect's sake. Jesus made the claim he laid down his life for his sheep and died for many. We have to reconcile the all's with passages like these or else there is a contradiction. Jesus taught election. Paul taught election. Peter taught election. It's all over scripture. If Christ chose everyone, then everyone would be saved. Bottom line.
A
Correct, the drawing implies salvation as well. So when people pull John 12:32 on someone to try and throw a wrench into John 6:65 they don't realize they are implying Universalism in the context they are presenting it.
Otherwise it doesn't imply Universalism at all...that's just an assume folks make,
Most free will people believe that the drawing can be resisted and that God allows people to choose....thus the whole debate.
another case of me agreeing with both views.... sigh..... forthangel i must say you really put the context on not willing any should perish but all come to repentance passage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but magenta you also provided great picture from joshua about choosing whom we will serve!!!!!!!!!!!! i like both ideas hahahaha. i have no idea which one is right, both are true.........
but magenta you also provided great picture from joshua about choosing whom we will serve!!!!!!!!!!!! i like both ideas hahahaha. i have no idea which one is right, both are true.........
WOW another good point!!!!!!!!!!!! this is why i was a universalist a second ago when i read in romans that all will be made alive in Christ and 1 tim 4:10 i made a topic about it here and got smashed and i lost all hope in it............ unfortunate. just have to be happy if you are one who is pardoned!!!!!!!!!!!!!